Next ride must be a trike, how, what, and whose?

[tomjasz]

There are several trikes threads at the moment but the busiest is looking at a design to haul 700lbs. Abit more than I need.

Please help me brainstorm this one and find the right frame. No hills a very few minor grades. 200lb rider up to 100# capacity, but not more than every few weeks with that load. It must be a crank forward or at least a step through frame.

I've seen and touched a trek. Nice looking but up to the weight?

I'd be happiest if I could use my BBS01 36V 350W. Ground height of the motor wouldn't be as critical since it won't be a curb jmperI think I've managed to read nearly every trike. Related post on ES. Giving me enough information to be an idiot about trikes. But as the big guy trying to work out a platform, it's enevitable for me. But key is being self sufficient as my legs continue to degenerate.

So far I've read and seen that most designs would be easiest for a front hub. Not unlike a two wheeler. Many have a one piece crank and bottom bracket needing an adapter kit to use a BBS0x.

The BBS02 48V might be the better choice for a mid given the power and weight of a trike?

Is there an upright setup that would mitigate a roll over?

Suspension fork?

Ideal wheel base? Ideal wheel size?

What's to wide for bike path?

Who builds best crank trike forward frame. Not a full recumbent?

Which frames can be upgraded to disc brakes?

What happens with batteries in 25F temps?

What is top reasonable speed?

Top speed cornering?

 

[docnjoj]

Two suggestions and both well tested by my wife and I.
1. Steintrikes with the new high 40 cm seat. Very easy to get on and off. I have the regular low version and can still get on/off but it is getting harder to do.
2. Sun USX. Heavy duty and uses a front hub motor. easy to build and very strong yet handles really well with rear negative camber wheels.
otherDoc

 

[tomjasz]

Two suggestions and both well tested by my wife and I.
1. Steintrikes with the new high 40 cm seat. Very easy to get on and off. I have the regular low version and can still get on/off but it is getting harder to do.
2. Sun USX. Heavy duty and uses a front hub motor. easy to build and very strong yet handles really well with rear negative camber wheels.
otherDoc

Thanks Doc, I'd never be able to get off the Steintrike, IF I managed to get on. That eliminates a lot of trike designs.
The USX looks great, but again the pecker woods driving here would have me dead in a week. I can't fathom not being up high enough to look a driver in the eyes. So it begins to look like the most stable of the trikes are all low slung. I asked Ypedal and never got an answer. How did you get comfortable at that height. Silly question on face but it just seems such a vulnerable position? No?

 

[Chalo]

Bikes are best almost all the time. They do pretty much everything better, with less machinery, than trikes.

If you really need a trike rather than a bike, forget recumbents. If you can get in and out of a recumbent trike, you can ride a bike, no problem.

Upright trikes with high seats are treacherous at speed. If you find a good handling one-- and that's a big if-- it might be safe to cruise at 15mph and go around a corner at maybe half that speed. Keep in mind that upright trikes let you know they've reached their limits by suddenly turning over and dumping you in the street. Most of them have been fitted with bicycle forks, which have the wrong geometry for trikes and tend to exaggerate their poor handling.

EDIT:
The pedicab trikes I build are competent at higher speeds than granny trikes. That's because they are about the same height but almost twice as wide. Most of these pedicab trikes have somewhat more trike-appropriate fork geometry, too.

2nd EDIT:
If physical mobility is the issue you are trying to cope with, have you considered a deep step-through bike instead? Sun Streamway is a good example:

 

[dumbass]

I don't know anything about trics but this is a place I've been looking at for a tandem tricycle for my wife. They seem to have quite a selection of heavy duty and lighter trics to include easy step through and electric assist.

Bob

http://www.bikemania.biz/adult-trikes-teen-trikes/heavy-duty-industrial-tricycles.html

 

[dumbass]

BTW, have you ever considered a set of adult trainers? I saw a guy last week riding in the forest preserve with a set on the back of a step through bike. He seemed very happy with them and it look fine to me. Of course I'm not sure how well 3 wheels in the back handle terrain. But it maybe easier to electrify.

Bob

 

[tomjasz]

BTW, have you ever considered a set of adult trainers? I saw a guy last week riding in the forest preserve with a set on the back of a step through bike. He seemed very happy with them and it look fine to me. Of course I'm not sure how well 3 wheels in the back handle terrain. But it maybe easier to electrify.

Bob

No Bob, I didn't realize there was such an animal. Looking now, thanks for the idea!

Tom

 

[mark5]

BTW, have you ever considered a set of adult trainers? I saw a guy last week riding in the forest preserve with a set on the back of a step through bike. He seemed very happy with them and it look fine to me. Of course I'm not sure how well 3 wheels in the back handle terrain. But it maybe easier to electrify.

Bob

No Bob, I didn't realize there was such an animal. Looking now, thanks for the idea!

Tom

Bob might be referring to something like these:

Bike USA Stabilizer Wheel Kit
http://www.amazon.com/Bike-USA-Stabilizer-Wheel-Kit/dp/B001BRE0G6

Adult Training Wheels
http://www.bikehacks.com/bikehacks/2013/06/adult-training-wheels.html

Evo Ez-Trainer Adult, Support Wheels
http://www.amazon.com/Evo-Ez-Trainer-Adult-Support-Wheels/dp/B005FN8PK4

GripSport "super heavy-duty" training wheels from Australia
http://gripsport.com.au/product/training-wheels-for-adults-disabled

Could use the same thing for myself.

Did you ever see E-S AussieJester's cruiser. Has stabilizers that lower on stop and raise on go like aircraft landing gear. There was a man on a Youtube video that had ones like that on his motorcycle.

Custom Build Gallery, AussieJester’s Blue Cruiser
http://www.electricbike.com/aussie-jester/

 

[dumbass]

mark5, Yes those are close to what I had in mind. But a year or so ago I say a set that was really heavy duty. I was looking to turn a standard tandem bike into a tandem tricycle and wanted a supper heavy duty setup. I saved the link but it went down the tube when my old PC crashed.

You may have seen some of the new 3 wheeled (2 wheels in front) motor scooters (some brands call them cycles). I remember seeing specs on one that had a button on the handle bar. When you pulled up to a stop you could press the button and it locked the position of the front wheels. Basically balancing you and the bike without putting your foot down. I can't remember if you had to press it again or it released automatically with engine RPM. Ether way I thought it was very cool because I always had dragging foot problem with motor cycles. Tends to wear the tip of the shoes. LOL

Bob

 

[Ykick]

mark5, Yes those are close to what I had in mind. But a year or so ago I say a set that was really heavy duty. I was looking to turn a standard tandem bike into a tandem tricycle and wanted a supper heavy duty setup. I saved the link but it went down the tube when my old PC crashed.

You may have seen some of the new 3 wheeled (2 wheels in front) motor scooters (some brands call them cycles). I remember seeing specs on one that had a button on the handle bar. When you pulled up to a stop you could press the button and it locked the position of the front wheels. Basically balancing you and the bike without putting your foot down. I can't remember if you had to press it again or it released automatically with engine RPM. Ether way I thought it was very cool because I always had dragging foot problem with motor cycles. Tends to wear the tip of the shoes. LOL

Bob

Consider yourself lucky. Try that with a Delta trike or HD Servicar like I did once and you'll never drag your feet again.

 

[Drunkskunk]

There are several trikes threads at the moment but the busiest is looking at a design to haul 700lbs. Abit more than I need.....

Is there an upright setup that would mitigate a roll over?

Suspension fork?

Ideal wheel base? Ideal wheel size?

What's to wide for bike path?

Who builds best crank trike forward frame. Not a full recumbent?

Which frames can be upgraded to disc brakes?

What happens with batteries in 25F temps?

What is top reasonable speed?

Top speed cornering?

Around here, any kind of recumbent is going to end up under the tire of an SUV. I don't know what the roads are like where you are, but to an SUV driver, anything low slung is nearly invisible.

Upright trikes are the way to go if you plan to be seen and not flattened. Sadly, with great height comes great roll over potential. The cure for that is to slow down.

Suspension fork is probably a bad idea on a conventional trike. Since a tike doesn't lean in the corner, the cog isn't centered over the wheel, and an up and down motion of the suspension in a corner would actual shift the COG right to left. That means if you're near the limit of speed in a corner, and you hit a bump with a suspension fork, the trike can flip.

Too wide is relative. How wide are your bike paths? How wide are your sidewalks? Wider is better, but I would try to make the wheels fit the narrowest path you encounter.

Ideal wheel base is subjective. longer is more stable but corners worse. Short is more maneuverable and will corner better. It really depends on where you ride, but I would go for a wheel base close to a conventional bicycle unless you need a cargo box on the back.

Wheel size, bigger is better. 24-29" rims, depending on your taste. With 24 and 26" wheels, you have the option to run extra wide to fat sized tires. A nice 3" to 5" wide tire makes for a very comfortable ride.

Top reasonable speed on a conventional upright trike is about 15mph.

Batteries at 25f lose capacity and don't perform well until they get warm again. If you have to ride in to cold, keep the batteries warm, and store them inside.

Disk brakes.. kinda pointless on a trike. Disk have no advantage under 20mph unless you're riding rim deep in snow or mud.

As for a bike to recommend, if you need a bike that's easy to get on and off, I'd say the bike Chalo pictured, converted with a trike conversion rear axle. something like this: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Bicycle-Bike-to-Tricycle-Trike-Conversion-Kit-Chrome-/230470203528 or this: http://www.trikezilla.com/Home_Page_QBVX.php
It's something I'm considering doing for my Dad.

 

[ddk]

Personally, I couldn't find a trike frame that fit my needs so I modified a Tri-Rider comfort trike for the task.
Super simple to do with thwe only welding required to reposition the BB shell. You can replace the BB shell with the size you'd require instead of repositioning the one that comes with the trike.
You could even use a tube-mounted BB shell made for that purpose (costs about $100 vs, $10 for a standard BB shell + welding costs)
I've built three of these things so far.
I only lengthened the frame on one of the three to accommodate a NuVinci hub in a jackshaft configuration.

Apparently the boys of Belize liked what I did and have a page about lowering the seat on their website.
The way they did it would be great... if you're 4 foot tall or less.
Moving the BB shell as far forward and the seat down and back allows a 6' tall average person the legroom needed to pedal the trike.

In my case I lowered and moved the seat back using hardware supplied for the basket. No great loss since, if you move the seat back, you have to use a different method to mount the basket anyhoo.
The whole modification/assembly process takes about 1-4 hours depending on if you can weld or how soon your welder can get to the job or if you use the tube-mount BB shell.

With no modification to your desired motor or the trikes' chain ratio the trike as described would top out at about 13mph and climb a 5% grade with minimal assistance.

oh, did I mention I've carried 700 pounds on these trikes lol.

re: http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=41572

I sit at the same height as someone in a passenger car.
Trikes are the best at carrying cargo for many reasons.

 

[dumbass]

Consider yourself lucky. Try that with a Delta trike or HD Servicar like I did once and you'll never drag your feet again.

Yeah, I remember one time the kickstand safety switch wasn't working and I took off and made a 90 degree turn into traffic from my driveway. I realized the stand was down when it scrapped the ground. Being stupid I thought I could just kick it up while riding. Big mistake.... I thought I was going to have my leg ripped off when my foot hit the ground. Never did that again.

Bob

 

[docnjoj]

It is actually even more dangerous to drop your foot on a tadpole trike. Your leg can get sucked under and snap your tibia and fibula real quick. Tadpole riders should always wear clips or straps or clipless shoes/pedals. I use Shimano SPD pedals and bike shoes.
otherDoc

 

[Ykick]

It is actually even more dangerous to drop your foot on a tadpole trike. Your leg can get sucked under and snap your tibia and fibula real quick. Tadpole riders should always wear clips or straps or clipless shoes/pedals. I use Shimano SPD pedals and bike shoes.
otherDoc

This is what I was talking about. Back in the "club" days we stripped a Servicar and put very wide 50 series Mickey Thompson tires on the back. Let my feet drag just a bit and what a surprise to find the tires climbing up the back of my leg. Never, ever happened again.

 

[docnjoj]

It is actually even more dangerous to drop your foot on a tadpole trike. Your leg can get sucked under and snap your tibia and fibula real quick. Tadpole riders should always wear clips or straps or clipless shoes/pedals. I use Shimano SPD pedals and bike shoes.
otherDoc

This is what I was talking about. Back in the "club" days we stripped a Servicar and put very wide 50 series Mickey Thompson tires on the back. Let my feet drag just a bit and what a surprise to find the tires climbing up the back of my leg. Never, ever happened again.

Wow you are lucky. I can't imagine a drag car going up my leg. Scary!
otherDoc

 

[chvidgov.bc.ca]

This company supplies a range of high quality value recumbent trikes made in Taiwan...I have a similar Actionbent trike from Taiwan and it compares well quality-wise to my Cattrike. My Actionbent is an absolute joy to ride with a rear 9C, and dual battery packs under the seat. I'd go recumbent trike, over a delta trike any day.

http://www.performer.com.tw/new/index.php?cPath=84

 

[tomjasz]

Thanks, true to every forum, and my own reading skills, recumbents are not on my list of wanted rides. See first post. Crank forward yes, but my disability precludes the position every recumbent forces. But thanks for the ideas. No built from scratch adventures either. Although I just had 30 pages of laughs and smiles. Confirming, some dicks just are...

 

[mclark999]

Bikes are best almost all the time. They do pretty much everything better, with less machinery, than trikes.

If you really need a trike rather than a bike, forget recumbents. If you can get in and out of a recumbent trike, you can ride a bike, no problem.

Upright bikes with high seats are treacherous at speed. If you find a good handling one-- and that's a big if-- it might be safe to cruise at 15mph and go around a corner at maybe half that speed. Keep in mind that upright trikes let you know they've reached their limits by suddenly turning over and dumping you in the street. Most of them have been fitted with bicycle forks, which have the wrong geometry for trikes and tend to exaggerate their poor handling.

EDIT:
The pedicab trikes I build are competent at higher speeds than granny trikes. That's because they are about the same height but almost twice as wide. Most of these pedicab trikes have somewhat more trike-appropriate fork geometry, too.

2nd EDIT:
If physical mobility is the issue you are trying to cope with, have you considered a deep step-through bike instead? Sun Streamway is a good example:

I'm considering a trike just for winter riding/commuting. In Denver over the winter, even though the bike trails stay open and relatively clear, all the underpasses have ice on them that make riding a bicycle extremely dangerous.

What I need is a trike that will handle the tight turns across pedestrian bridges. A recumbent is fine as long as I can get through the tight spots. Any advice on a trike that's good for bike trails like this?

 

[mclark999]

This company supplies a range of high quality value recumbent trikes made in Taiwan...I have a similar Actionbent trike from Taiwan and it compares well quality-wise to my Cattrike. My Actionbent is an absolute joy to ride with a rear 9C, and dual battery packs under the seat. I'd go recumbent trike, over a delta trike any day.

http://www.performer.com.tw/new/index.php?cPath=84

Actionbent is no longer available in the U.S. Is there a way to purchase one and have it shipped here?

 

[tomjasz]

Bikes are best almost all the time. They do pretty much everything better, with less machinery, than trikes.

If you really need a trike rather than a bike, forget recumbents. If you can get in and out of a recumbent trike, you can ride a bike, no problem.

Upright trikes with high seats are treacherous at speed. If you find a good handling one-- and that's a big if-- it might be safe to cruise at 15mph and go around a corner at maybe half that speed. Keep in mind that upright trikes let you know they've reached their limits by suddenly turning over and dumping you in the street. Most of them have been fitted with bicycle forks, which have the wrong geometry for trikes and tend to exaggerate their poor handling.

EDIT:
The pedicab trikes I build are competent at higher speeds than granny trikes. That's because they are about the same height but almost twice as wide. Most of these pedicab trikes have somewhat more trike-appropriate fork geometry, too.

2nd EDIT:
If physical mobility is the issue you are trying to cope with, have you considered a deep step-through bike instead? Sun Streamway is a good example:

That step through design requires better balance than my crank forward KHS Smoothie or Trek Pure.

Thanks. I have a crank forward bike that is not step through but I don't have to lift my leg to mount, at least not beyond my current capabilities. It works as well as a step through, for now. I tired both styles before buying. The problem coming down the pike is balance. I'm good this season and I suspect at least on one more, but it's worsening. You're absolutely correct about getting in and out of a recumbent. It's impossible for me. I keep going back to the Trek Pure Trike as it's a step through trike. If I convert my existing bikes, now that I've read your comments and reviewed, I'm back to mounting problems. I can't lift my leg over and mount as easily as I can now with the low seat and crank forward geometry. The reason for having no baskets on the side of my current ride is the same, I can't lift my leg high enough to swing over. If it means I have to slow down at least I can still ride. I have given up my driving privileges and bicycling is my only mode of self transport. I lived through lots of adventures that required common sense, I just my have to wrangle some up for riding an upright trike.

Thanks all for the input. The field is narrowing thanks to all the ideas. At least I have a better idea of what to stay away from.

EDIT The disappointment now is not being able to use the BBS01 I'm so happy with. Finding the frame and quality of build to adapt the BBS to would be the ideal. But I'm back to the rear brake issue without the skill to adapt a braking system. Any ideas there? Rear brakes mods?

 

[Soj]

Is there an upright setup that would mitigate a roll over?

Yes. Lightfoot Greenway 42" wide version. They don't come more stable than that.

Ideal wheel base? Ideal wheel size?

See above

What's to wide for bike path?

Depends on your local ordinances/bike path regulations - but those "twin strollers" are usually around 35" wide, so ...

Who builds best crank trike forward frame. Not a full recumbent?

Lightfoot cycles, IMO.

Which frames can be upgraded to disc brakes?

Lightfoots come with disc brakes on all 3 wheels.

What is top reasonable speed?

15 mph IMO. But I hate speed. Even when I was riding bike, I was notorious for riding the brakes all the way down hills.

Top speed cornering?

On a delta trike (not a tadpole recumbent) not that fast.

Are you looking for speed? You need a tadpole recumbent.

If you want safety, visibility to drivers, upright posture and good visibility of what's around you, then a delta trike - but they don't go fast. Especially around corners.

A Lightfoot trike can easily meet your requirements - 300 lb load even on the smallest Sprite (200 lb you plus 100 lb carge) though the standard cargo sling will only hold 75 lbs. You'd need to upgrade to the cargo platform.

They also make an "industrial" cargo trike, a "freight" trike.

They cost some. But it is the ONLY "real" delta trike I've found with real gears (triple crank with super low granny gear for getting up those hills). It's also the most stable of any I've seen. I tried a Sun Trike - it was very tippy. And all the tadpoles were too low to the ground and made me crane my neck to see where I was going.

 

[docnjoj]

Yep, Lightfoot trikes are very well made. I almost got one for my wife but the Sun USX was $3000 less and corners fine. Luckily she liked it.
otherDoc

 

[Soj]

@docnjoj - I'm curious - the Lightfoot Sprite is $2980 base price - so it seems like the Sun was free? Or they paid you $20 to take it with you? LOL!

Seriously the one I saw was the SX, like this one:

http://sunbicycles.com/product_detail.php?short_code=EZ-TriClassic+SX&cl1=RECUMBENT

It didn't feel stable at all. Besides, I need so many adaptive changes I don't think I could get that modded to fit for any less than I need to spend on the Lightfoot, and probably more. Sidestick steering, for instance. Not the U-bar under the seat type - I have trouble wrestling that around. I have 2 bad shoulders and an ulnar nerve entrapment that makes things interesting from time to time, LOL!

Equally important is the ease of carrying cargo. The Lightfoot trikes are built specifically with that in mind. The Sun trike - isn't.

I'm not sure what makes the difference in stability. According to Sun's website, the AX width is 30.5" with a seat height of 22". Lightfoot's Sprite is 32.4" with a seat height of (I think) 18". Maybe 19". So I guess just those few inches lower/wider make a world of difference. At any rate, even the Sprite, which is the narrowest trike Lightfoot makes, is more stable than that SX.

The Greenway with the 46" wheelbase is even more stable.

You have a USX which is built differently than the one I saw. I don't know anything about that one, but the AX was not anything I wanted. The SX is essentially the same as the AX, with a 30" width and 20" seat height. I actually thought they were the same frame but apparently not. The USX is visibly different from the other two.

For some odd reason, none of those trikes are listed under Sun's "Trike" heading, only under "recumbents" - where most people aren't going to look for them if they are specifically looking for trikes. At least I didn't, LOL!

My only issue with the Lightfoot is trying to figure out which electric assist system would be best/easiest for me to deal with.

 

[docnjoj]

@docnjoj - I'm curious - the Lightfoot Sprite is $2980 base price - so it seems like the Sun was free? Or they paid you $20 to take it with you? LOL!

I believe that price included the 250 Bionx system. It was the Greenway and it is very well designed and made. Here is a USX with the negative camber wheels. Oh well the photo demon isn't with me today. Yes it is a Sun Bicycle recumbent.
otherDoc