Number One - 11.000 Watts

Ecyclist said:
Thank you for info and a cool drawing. It looks like it will be a tight squeeze to fit that motor into my design.
So far, almost everything I ordered is out of stock, but according to Bruno he will be getting new delivery by mid March. So hopefully I will be getting my toys in a couple of weeks. Once I do, I will hook it all up and I will let you know about my experience.
Speaking of hooking it all up, do I assume correctly that because you use the Castle controller you are running your motor sensorless?
Are you happy with the start up, running it without hall sensors?
You have a very streamlined setup, and I wonder what throttle you have and how you connected the throttle to the Castle controller?
Did you use Alien interface, and if so, was it difficult to hook it up?
Good luck with your project. You should be proud of what you've done so far.
Click to expand...

I saw you found the topic for connecting the throttle to a RC ESC. I run the motor sensorless and I am quite happy with the start up. However, always start pedal to get it going and after that start with applying throttle. (If you don't do this, you might blow the ESC) I did use the Alien interface, its quite good to use as far as I remember.


I did some runs with the bicycle as it was perfect weather last weekend. The bicycle handles so well, is amazingly lightweight and it is so much fun driving it! Its very fast and wheelies easily. Top speed measured by GPS was 67 km/h (41 mph) which is very fast on a bicycle without gloves and helmet :shock:

24b5b3o.png


The peak Wattage is measured at 13.000 W at 346A, which is a lot. I am really pushing everything to the limits!

n9gki.jpg


I will try to post a video next time. I am playing with the idea to change the gear ratio, to get a topspeed of over 100 km/h. Just for one time, just for fun and to drive 100 km/h on a bicycle :mrgreen: However I am not sure if the tires will last... Has anyone experience with high speeds at 24" off road tyres?
 
Check endless member liveforphysics. Apparently he completed, on his bicycle, the standing quarter mile in 11.502seconds at 110.56mph. That's 177.9 km/h. :shock:
I took some more measurements of my bike and realized that 110mm long motor will not fit in my set-up, so I pulled one notch back and I'm going with 6374 motor.
So, thank you for the info. Without your help, I would be stuck with a too long motor.
Later, once I feel more ambitious, I will get the 8085 motor and try to squeeze hall sensor in it or run it sensorless.
 
Wheazel said:
No it will need heat treatment. Personally i dont think that is something to make a problem. Should exist some kind of heat treatment company in every other town. And with aluminum you dont need that high temps.
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Also powder coating will help regaining strength after welding. I know some will not agree about this, but certainly a lot of people seems to do well with only powder coating welded aluminum. Might not bring it back to T6 strength but from various custom DIY vehicles I've seen it seems that after powder coating welded aluminum can take a lot of beating and abuse.
 
macribs said:
Wheazel said:
No it will need heat treatment. Personally i dont think that is something to make a problem. Should exist some kind of heat treatment company in every other town. And with aluminum you dont need that high temps.
Click to expand...

Also powder coating will help regaining strength after welding. I know some will not agree about this, but certainly a lot of people seems to do well with only powder coating welded aluminum. Might not bring it back to T6 strength but from various custom DIY vehicles I've seen it seems that after powder coating welded aluminum can take a lot of beating and abuse.
Click to expand...
Here are some important facts:
After welding, because of the high heat and fast cooling, the frame right next to the weld and the weld become hard. The weld, because it is thicker, is not a problem, but because of the thicker weld and thinner and now brittle tube, the structure is compromised.
In order to remedy it, the ONLY way to do it is to put structure through the annealing treatment. You need to heat up aluminum to 410 deg. C and control cool it at 25 to 250°C per hour.
Powder coating is performed at 150-200 deg. C; so is an aging process (about 175 deg. C). Not even close for an annealing process (410 deg. C). Aging process will make aluminum harder.
So, in conclusion, powder coating will not alleviate stress loads produced by welding.
And just so you know, aluminum will get hard with time just laying around.
 
So, in conclusion, powder coating will not alleviate stress loads produced by welding.
And just so you know, aluminum will get hard with time just laying around.
Click to expand...

The aging/curing is done at about 180 degrees, and is done to align(?) the metal crysta or so I am toldl, is the initial heat/rapid cooling still needed? Or will the 200 degrees heating when powder coating help with this? Maybe prolong the curing process of powder coating helps?

Hard as in brittle? Is that to say that in order to keep strength heat treatment @400 degrees C might be needed to be redone after some years?
Or are you talking of unwelded aluminum that is not heat treated?
 
I don't see a point in going deeper into the subject of welding and such. If you want to know more, google it.
I provided you with a good starting point.
This thread is by "Byte" and his build. It appears to me that he is not going to cut and weld his bike and neither do I.
 
I agree that welding on an already-heat-treated frame is not a good idea. Especially on an e-Bike that is using so much power and going so fast.

Grain structure in metals is not unlike that of grain in wood. Wood with clear grain is strong and can bend/flex without breaking. When you weld metals (ANY alloy or material), the grain structure goes from being clear to having knots. Knots are very hard, but they are also brittle and cause misalignment. When you weld metals, the weld has the same characteristics as knots in wood. The knot (weld) itself is hard as heck, and the area right next to it becomes the weak point (the HAZ... heat-affected zone.)

Annealing welded materials smooths out the grain structure near the welds. The material temp needs to be raised almost near melting point. Most materials have a specific quench/cool process immediately after they've been annealed. Then, the material will need to be tempered/hardened. Many people mistake this step as being the entire heat-treating process. This is largely because 7005 has been widely used in bike frames, and the tempering process for that alloy uses lower temps. If one tempers a weldment without first annealing, the "knots" in the grain structure of the material will remain.

IIRC, aluminum will naturally age to about a T-3 state. Artificial aging can bring it up to the common T-6. PROPERLY heat-treating is a rather complicated process, but it can be critical. Aluminum is usually the material being discussed, but welding on ANY material compromises the grain structure. Heat-treating steel requires much higher temps, and titanium requires a completely inert environment!

Didn't mean to hijack this thread. I've just spent way too much time learning about why stuff breaks. The bike in this thread looks like the ideal street weapon. Is the rear wheel at any risk seeing that kind of power?
 
Sry ecyclist for wondering O/T. I get carried away at times because of all the wisdom at this forum, and trying to soak up that wisdom sometimes take the better of me and I end up off topic. Sry OP wasen't nice of me to hijack thread.
 
Walk around.

[youtube]JMgVEpT4aTU[/youtube]


Plastic motor, gearing and wiring cover still not ready. I am optimizing the airflow in the motor cover. Also ordered a new sprocket for the 100+ km/h run. But I will do that speedrun once this bike gets too boring for me, which will take a while I think :mrgreen:
 
Nice build! What kind of riding do you use it for mainly?
 
LI-ghtcycle said:
Nice build! What kind of riding do you use it for mainly?
Click to expand...

Up till now only for fun rides (hard accelerating and braking) in areas without too much traffic. Occassionaly I drive in the forrest, but the throttle is very sensitive and with all the bumps and imperfections in the road it leads to unwanted/uncontrollable wheelies.
Also the range is limited to about 25 to 35 kilometres, depending on the driving style.
 
I received three SLS printed parts out of Nylon. Originally they were white, I painted them black. They function as:
- Sprocket/chain cover
- Motor cover and extra cooling (two 40mm fans, one blowing in wind from the back of the motor, the other one from the side)
- Electronics and wiring cover

The bike is finished at this point, no big modifications will be done. I am very happy with the result: it has tons of power, is very lightweight and reliable, and looks cool! I decided not to hide all gears/chains with covers, because I like to see the mechanical aspects of the bike.
















 
I guess they police will be chasing to get pics of the thing it's awesome the more I look at it the more detail I see the frame is lovely bit of work just as a bike without the amazing motor install, How's it running reliability wise 11000 watts is alot of torque to tame in such a small package.
 
Great build! The voltage display holder looks like a good deal of knee stitches will be in your future if you ride hard. :)
 
eTim said:
Wow! Very impressive build :) Looks absolutely amazing

How do you deal with police? Or do you...outrun them? :D
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I don't drive on streets with heavy traffic, so I never came across police yet. I don't know what I would do if I saw them actually :roll:


Ianhill said:
I guess they police will be chasing to get pics of the thing it's awesome the more I look at it the more detail I see the frame is lovely bit of work just as a bike without the amazing motor install, How's it running reliability wise 11000 watts is alot of torque to tame in such a small package.
Click to expand...

Its running great, no problems at all! I am very happy with it, its very reliable.


liveforphysics said:
Great build! The voltage display holder looks like a good deal of knee stitches will be in your future if you ride hard. :)
Click to expand...

It might look edgy and sharp on the photos, but its not that bad I think. It never came to my mind that it could be a potential danger.

Hillhater said:
Byte said:
.....! I decided not to hide all gears/chains with covers, because I like to see the mechanical aspects of the bike. .....]
Click to expand...
Very nice build.
But powered sprockets are always a serious safety risk as well as being a good way to destroy your pants !
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That is completely true. However if you look carefully, you can see that its very hard (almost impossible) to get your pants between the chain line. The first stage reduction is very well covered and very close to the frame. The second stage reduction with the chain is a little more open, but because the plastic motor cover is quite big its hard to get your pants in the chain. I actually tried to get my pants/leg touching the chains, but its only possible if you make very unusual movements.
 
Thanks spinningmagnets nice little read close on 300amps yum with the gearing reduction hang on well enough and this beast will climb up the side of eiger mountain if the temps were favourable.
 
Yeah, the HV-160 is rated for 160 amps as a temporary peak, so...he accelerates so fast he only sees 300A for a split second, not long enough to overheat the ESC...
 
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