Old full suspension 26'' mtb vs modern hardtail 29er?
- Thread starter rudivb
- Start date
Ah yes an interesting feature indeed and kind of a signature of these models.
The carbon plate flexes/bends and replaces what would usually be a pivot point.
I am a little concerned with the possibility of it breaking and not being able to buy a new part. So I was wondering if I could just buy a piece of carbon plate (2mm) and cut it to the exact size as a replacement in case it breaks.
That's what it looked like when looking closely. Before the closeup, I thought the pivot was the black circular piece. Never seen anything like it.
Chalo
100 TW
Slingshot frames from days of yore had a fiberglass flex "pivot" that made the top tube into a sort of diving board. I never saw one broken.
Actually you are correct about the black circular piece, I think this is the main pivot point and the flex in the carbon plate is very minimal.
Here some photos of the system:
Unfortunately the bike I previously posted as "donor"bike has been sold.
It's alright as it was a bit above budget as "donor"bike anyway, but it was a fair price for it's condition.
Prefer to find something a bit more beat up, ideally with a broken frame or something for a cheap price, I'm not too worried as time is not an issue for this project.
Seeing all the positive response here, I might actually start a project page, it's a budget project tho and compared with what I see it won't be that special, I don't have the equipment/room and knowledge for some of the crazy builds I see here, but I know my way around bikes and pretty confident I can make this work!
Big battery, fits perfectly:
ScooterMan101
1 MW
Rudivb ,
You did not say what amount of travel that the fork on that bike/frame came with when it was sold years ago.
I would increase the travel by at least 20 mm , that would give you a slacker head tube angle and slightly longer
wheel base . Which is what you want when converting a bike to an e-bike and higher speeds .
Also with a longer travel fork the fork most often has larger diameter stanchions which means it is also a stronger
fork . Better to handle higher speeds.
A Bike shop mechanic told me that modern forks with 38 mm stanchions are desirable on a e-bike.
Also it is said that putting on a longer travel fork increases the stresses on a bike frame, However unless you are
riding down hill in the alps and jumping 1 meter and higher jumps you should be fine because when that frame was made
it was made to go downhill fast and jump and land hard , so with the kind of riding you say you will be doing you will should be fine.
20 mm or longer travel fork and 27.5 front wheel would be good for your build .
I use a 20 mm longer travel fork on my bike .
Is the Frame a straight 1 1/8 head tube or a more modern tapered 1 1/8 top and 1.5 bottom ?
Pinkbike is a great place to find a used long travel MTB fork. From over priced and over used outdated parts , to sometimes
good deal , little used and / or serviced parts. A freshly serviced fork is something to look for when buying a used fork.
www.pinkbike.com
You did not say what amount of travel that the fork on that bike/frame came with when it was sold years ago.
I would increase the travel by at least 20 mm , that would give you a slacker head tube angle and slightly longer
wheel base . Which is what you want when converting a bike to an e-bike and higher speeds .
Also with a longer travel fork the fork most often has larger diameter stanchions which means it is also a stronger
fork . Better to handle higher speeds.
A Bike shop mechanic told me that modern forks with 38 mm stanchions are desirable on a e-bike.
Also it is said that putting on a longer travel fork increases the stresses on a bike frame, However unless you are
riding down hill in the alps and jumping 1 meter and higher jumps you should be fine because when that frame was made
it was made to go downhill fast and jump and land hard , so with the kind of riding you say you will be doing you will should be fine.
20 mm or longer travel fork and 27.5 front wheel would be good for your build .
I use a 20 mm longer travel fork on my bike .
Is the Frame a straight 1 1/8 head tube or a more modern tapered 1 1/8 top and 1.5 bottom ?
Pinkbike is a great place to find a used long travel MTB fork. From over priced and over used outdated parts , to sometimes
good deal , little used and / or serviced parts. A freshly serviced fork is something to look for when buying a used fork.
Mountain Bike News, Photos, Videos & Events | Pinkbike
Check out PinkBike.com for the latest in cycling and mountain biking news, freeride videos, photos, events and more. Submit your own biking pictures and videos online. Buy the latest biking DVDs and videos. Check race results.
Rudivb ,
You did not say what amount of travel that the fork on that bike/frame came with when it was sold years ago.
Mountain Bike News, Photos, Videos & Events | Pinkbike
Check out PinkBike.com for the latest in cycling and mountain biking news, freeride videos, photos, events and more. Submit your own biking pictures and videos online. Buy the latest biking DVDs and videos. Check race results.
Hi, thanks for your info about forks, I am just getting into forks, I've biked all my life, but never serious mtbing and never knew anything technical really especially about forks.
It is very hard to figure out what the original fork was, as it's a pretty old bike by now, but obviously fork travel wasn't like what it is these days and it is marketed as a XC bike, so I am guessing 100 - 120mm.
A nice fork upgrade was definitely in the planing, but I am not rich nor a high level mtber, so definitely on a lower budget.
Honestly for the looks, I love the look of a DH dual clamp fork, it's probably overkill, but if I could make it work with the geometry, that would be real nice.
I was indeed also thinking about 27.5 up front, the frame is a straight 1 1/8 btw.
Saw the pinkbike website coming by a few times, never looked on it, will check it out.
And what do you think about Bolany forks? The internet seems a bit devided about them, some say absolutely don't and it's dangerous it will snap and kill you, others say it's fine as long as you are not doing those crazy jumps etc.
Recently saw an absolutely gorgeous build on youtube, he also uses Bolany forks (dual clamp inverted):
IMO, the last place to compromise is the front end since the ramifications of failure could be extreme.I have no experience with Bolany except that their forks seem to retail for a lot less than name brand which is what I use (Rock Shox, Fox, Manitou etc).
scianiac
10 kW
- Joined
- Oct 24, 2018
- Messages
- 621
There are limits to how much longer of a fork you can fit before the geometry starts to be problematic. Remember the longer fork you aren't just slackening it, you're also raising the BB and generally tilting the whole bike. But if it is reasonable to fit a 200mm DH fork I would recommend you buy a used name brand fork, which is often easy to find because nobody is buying 26in forks anymore, and again getting something like a 27.5 DH fork is really starting to push the geometry way past what it was designed for. You are also putting stresses on the headset they were not designed for. It would be wise to do the geometry or mock it up before you buy a fork just to see what numbers you would be looking at.
Also remember what you are trying to accomplish here, have an idea of what you want the bike to be and do. A 200mm DH fork is not exactly needed for "some beginner stuff and just enjoy nature". You should spend time and money on parts that will actually make the bike better at what you want it to be and do.
Also remember what you are trying to accomplish here, have an idea of what you want the bike to be and do. A 200mm DH fork is not exactly needed for "some beginner stuff and just enjoy nature". You should spend time and money on parts that will actually make the bike better at what you want it to be and do.
I just finished my "city cruiser". I already had an old Mongoose hardtail that I converted to Epower, but after about 1500 NYC miles I realized I wanted full suspension for those crappy NYS streets.
I purchased this 2009 Giant trance x3 on Ebay, it came as a frame only. I build it up mostly from parts obtained on Amazon. It's got a 500 watt Bfang rear hub motor, Rox Shox front fork, my son 3d printed the battery box for a 14 amp 48v battery.
It is super comfortable, definitely an improvement over a hardtail.
Paul.
I purchased this 2009 Giant trance x3 on Ebay, it came as a frame only. I build it up mostly from parts obtained on Amazon. It's got a 500 watt Bfang rear hub motor, Rox Shox front fork, my son 3d printed the battery box for a 14 amp 48v battery.
It is super comfortable, definitely an improvement over a hardtail.
Paul.
Attachments
Chalo
100 TW
Enjoy it while it lasts.
At the community bike shop where I work, decent bikes that are 50 years old get another life because they're worthy of fixing up. Full suspension bikes that are 15 years old are usually only fit for recycling, or selling on cheaply to a glutton for punishment.
Vehicles that are important get standardized systems, and they get replacement parts support for a relatively long time. Suspension bikes get neither. Maybe the proliferation of e-bikes will eventually result in more standardization and parts support for suspension bikes, but so far it seems like the opposite is true. Full squish bikes are toys, and e-bikes are toys. No support or standardization required.
Ah, so there’s a linkage that isn’t visible in the other pics. It looks like during suspension travel, the linkage may keep the distance between the front chainring and rear cassette from changing. I know that a lot of designs attempted to do that with varying success for a while.
That's a cool build!
The only problem with newer FS bikes is that they have all sorts of swoopy designs that prevent you from putting a battery in the triangle, which is the best place to put them.
Sometime in the 2010's bike designs went off the rails. Yours is one of the last of the mainstream ones to have something resembling a triangle. All of those bikes don't have support anymore, that's a problem!
Thanks!
I think as long as I don't crash it or something, I should be OK. Basically all the components are low level Shimano stuff that I installed myself, so I can easily repair it.
The reason I chose to put the battery on the top bar was to preserve the water bottle space. I probably do 65% peddling and the rest is twist throttle. I did not install the PAS sensor, just don't like how it engages.
My previous build had the 1000w direct hub which would not freewheel without resistance, the nice thing about this Bfang is that it has internal gears with a clutch, it let's me pedal like a traditional bike. No motor drag. Overall, I'm getting around 10-15% increased range over the 1000w hub.
Yes that is a pretty cool/interesting build.
Here too the roads are absolutely horrible and a full suspension bike would be soooo much better.
But still I use my full rigid frame BBSHD, I do deliveries with it and ride 10000+km a year. The good thing about a rigid frame, is the simplicity and low maintenance. But I did add a suspension seatpost and the widest tires (38mm) I could fit to make the ride a little more comfortable.
gromike
10 kW
Well, I do understand what you're saying Chalo, but I just couldn't pass up these beauties:
The yellow Giant was $50, the blue Gary fisher was a $125. Both evidence a minimum of usage, and are crying out for DD hub motors. These bikes are much higher level of MTB build than the Novarro FS Ponderosa that I installed a DD hub motor on. And that bike is a great roller of an ebike. My use is road, and light trail.
Chalo
100 TW
Giant and Gary Fisher (Trek)? Those are as good as it gets, in terms of ubiquity, manufacturer support, and commodity components. Good scores.
gromike
10 kW
Yeah, I drove by the local non-profit bike shop and saw that they were open so I wandered over, looked at the bikes they had out front, and then asked if I could look at their unfixed bikes in the shed, which they said ok. I saw these two, and we dug them out of bicycle chaos. I asked how much for the yellow one? Fifty bucks. When I asked about the Gary Fischer. he said let me check.
He said $150 for the Fischer, to which I said I'll buy the $50 Giant, to which he said $125 for the Fischer. I bit on that.
One part of what this nonprofit shop does is fix up donated bikes for resell. Most of us here know what that entails, and for a FS even more! And they do worry about the liability risk of the bikes they sell, so I had to sign a waiver before buying these bikes in the rough.
To fix a bike like this is over $400 in parts and labor, by my back of the hand calculation, and that's without the cost of replacing twenty year old brake hydraulics (they do work great). Or tires!
So, I bought them at a wholesale price. There seems to be no economically way to make a profitable business in selling a lightly used refurbished high-end twenty year-old pedal powered bicycle and make money! These bikes are what I dreamed of as I pedaled for those many thousands of miles. I really didn't even know how good a good bikes is, as the best I ever knew was mid-grade.
So these machines have become my test mules for building the best ebike ever. I'm definitely on the bicycle side of things, and I'm happy to pedal along like a cow chewing cud, but I do want the ability to hit the wick and go 35. At that speed I want the best truck I can get. I think I stumbled on to a couple of them.
He said $150 for the Fischer, to which I said I'll buy the $50 Giant, to which he said $125 for the Fischer. I bit on that.
One part of what this nonprofit shop does is fix up donated bikes for resell. Most of us here know what that entails, and for a FS even more! And they do worry about the liability risk of the bikes they sell, so I had to sign a waiver before buying these bikes in the rough.
To fix a bike like this is over $400 in parts and labor, by my back of the hand calculation, and that's without the cost of replacing twenty year old brake hydraulics (they do work great). Or tires!
So, I bought them at a wholesale price. There seems to be no economically way to make a profitable business in selling a lightly used refurbished high-end twenty year-old pedal powered bicycle and make money! These bikes are what I dreamed of as I pedaled for those many thousands of miles. I really didn't even know how good a good bikes is, as the best I ever knew was mid-grade.
So these machines have become my test mules for building the best ebike ever. I'm definitely on the bicycle side of things, and I'm happy to pedal along like a cow chewing cud, but I do want the ability to hit the wick and go 35. At that speed I want the best truck I can get. I think I stumbled on to a couple of them.
Those are nice bikes, they look like they'd be hard to e-bike though.
gromike
10 kW
My plan is to eventually put a rear hub motor in them, though that might be an issue with the Giant's NRS suspension. I'll try to fit my 26" hub motor wheel in and see. As far as batteries, I can now build my own (and that's thanks to Chalo linking to A123 batteries from Battery Hookup last year).
For the moment I'm going fix them up and ride them. Already pumped up the tires, oiled the chain, installed pedals and rode them around. The Gary Fischer doesn't shift, so I couldn't do a proper test. With the Giant it was all good to go. So I went searching for those deep potholes, and, must say, that thing just floats through them.
For the moment I'm going fix them up and ride them. Already pumped up the tires, oiled the chain, installed pedals and rode them around. The Gary Fischer doesn't shift, so I couldn't do a proper test. With the Giant it was all good to go. So I went searching for those deep potholes, and, must say, that thing just floats through them.
Where's the battery going to go? I'm about to use a honkin' 19' frame just because it's the only thing I can jam the batteryage into. This is the Frankenstein build. Batteries don't have a lot of amps so looking for a 20-25A 72v controller and gonna wire
in the throttle and power button and hope the hall wires are all the same. Well, I have a controller, but it's 26-32A and my batteries have 30A BMS.
So..I'm probably going to take it and file the shunts a bit to lower the power draw it allows.
Then I gotta match the throttle and on-off button wires. Hopefully the HALL wires match up. I would think they would.
What if I could just wire it up with the controller that came with the kit? It's 35A though. Er..yeah, and I shunt-modded it.
I don't want these batteries to blow up.
Last edited:
gromike
10 kW
I don't know all that much about MTB suspension systems (like nothing), but I'm learning. Circa mid-2000's, that is.
Here are the rear triangles from the two bikes I bought:
My eventual goal with these is to install a rear direct-drive hubmotor on them.
The yellow Giant nrs, because it looks a bit delicate, I think like a Grin all-axle motor would be a good choice. I believe that it would a smooth ride.
For the Fisher, because that thing looks sturdy, I would go for a Leaf 1500w DD motor.
For the yellow I do have a Grin motor, with their torque system, in a wheel. So I can fit that and see if works before I spend money.
The Leaf motor I might just jump on.
I have some reward money to finance one of these projects.
Whadda you think?
Here are the rear triangles from the two bikes I bought:
My eventual goal with these is to install a rear direct-drive hubmotor on them.
The yellow Giant nrs, because it looks a bit delicate, I think like a Grin all-axle motor would be a good choice. I believe that it would a smooth ride.
For the Fisher, because that thing looks sturdy, I would go for a Leaf 1500w DD motor.
For the yellow I do have a Grin motor, with their torque system, in a wheel. So I can fit that and see if works before I spend money.
The Leaf motor I might just jump on.
I have some reward money to finance one of these projects.
Whadda you think?
gromike
10 kW
I'm finding out that the air shock on the rear of the Giant XTC nrs has no replacement
. The one on the bike is working great, that is after I bought a shock pump. I'm having more of an issue with the Fisher, it clunks when it unloads?
. The one on the bike is working great, that is after I bought a shock pump. I'm having more of an issue with the Fisher, it clunks when it unloads?I'm finding out that the air shock on the rear of the Giant XTC nrs has no replacement
I thought these rear shocks were all pretty standard sizes and easily replaceable.
I'm not an expert either, but the bushes do wear out, so that might need replacement, but I don't know if that's where the clunk comes from.
