"Only For Expert"......Twin 1500w Cyclones...

[The Mighty Volt]

http://cyclone-tw.com/order-E.htm

I am not an expert, but I have decided that these kits offer true "e-vehicle" performance.

Just how far removed from normalcy are these things?

I have seen videos where the user is absolutely beating these to death....no sign of overheating or burning or anything.

Thanks.

 

[Miles]

Cyclone are just a money making outfit. All their designs revolve around the cheapest way to produce something that "works" using the least thought and effort. Using 6t sprockets is a crass idea.

 

[liveforphysics]

the cheapest way to produce something that "works" using the least thought and effort.

Hmm... I would say any hubmotor better fits that description.


But I do agree 100% with you Miles. 6T sprockets are a joke, the brackets are just waiting to fail, the sprocket freewheel is garbage out of the box, and delivering substantial power through a bicycle chain = fail.

 

[Kaño]

I have a 1500W Cyclone motor in my cruiser; here is the link to my tread:
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=10007&start=15

It pulls like a beast; I can imagine what kind of acceleration you will get with two of them!

Just make sure you have a good reduction ratio, if not you will burn the controller easily. (I burned one myself.) And be prepared to see 140 amps or so, on hard take offs.

Last thing to tell you is that chain noise is loud as hell.

 

[Miles]

Hmm... I would say any hubmotor better fits that description.

But they would have some competition in that direction :wink:

 

[recumpence]

Cyclone stuff does fill a niche. However, I will never understand why they insist on making such low quality. I know their price is low and that attracts people to E-biking. But, their quality sucks which, in turn, pushed people away form them.

All they really need to do us upgrade to a better freewheel and eliminate the chain noise and that would remove the majority of complaints.

Matt

 

[jag]

But I do agree 100% with you Miles. 6T sprockets are a joke

What would be the smallest sprocket that makes sense from efficiency and long sprocket/chain life? 8T? 10T?

Now with a bigger chain sprocket, an intermediate reduction gear is needed. I was thinking gears rather than another chain/belt. Where can one buy a small, lightweight gear reduction that would fit match say an Astro or similar 2-3kW 10,000 rpm motor?
How about a Mars 5-10kW motor? (b.t.w. The Mars motors are speced at relatively low 3-4000rpm. Will they blow up if one tries to push 6-10,000 rpm to milk more power?)

I saw some RC gear boxes, but was uncertain about quality longevity, and it seemed to be mostly for below 1kW applications.

I found stand alone reduction gears for boats, but they were heavy cast iron.

Any other tips?

 

[The Mighty Volt]

Do these 1500w kits out-perform the hub motors of similar size?

Is there a superior, more reliable type of chain drive out there?

Thanks for all the replies!


I am just very impressed with the pulling power of these things....so much so that I am thinking of getting one, though not a cyclone, now that you have warned me!!

 

[Miles]

But I do agree 100% with you Miles. 6T sprockets are a joke

What would be the smallest sprocket that makes sense from efficiency and long sprocket/chain life? 8T? 10T?

For efficiency, I'd say 12t.

9t is really the final limit, though.

http://chain-guide.com/basics/2-2-1-chordal-action.html

 

[Tom Tom]

Considering the weight and price you'd be better off with an etek

 

[recumpence]

But I do agree 100% with you Miles. 6T sprockets are a joke

What would be the smallest sprocket that makes sense from efficiency and long sprocket/chain life? 8T? 10T?

I saw some RC stuff, but was uncertain about quality longevity, and it seemed to be mostly for below 1kW applications.

Any other tips?

From my experience, RC drives are typically 4kw or above. They do cost a bit, though. But, you can get into RC systems for a reasonable amount of money if you source components correctly.

Matt

 

[jag]

I saw some RC stuff, but was uncertain about quality longevity, and it seemed to be mostly for below 1kW applications.

Any other tips?

From my experience, RC drives are typically 4kw or above. They do cost a bit, though. But, you can get into RC systems for a reasonable amount of money if you source components correctly.

Matt

I meant: are there (planetary) gear reduction boxes for say a 3-4kW Astro or similar motor?

I saw the belt drives you and others on the list make, but wanted to learn about alternatives with gears. Browsing a few RC web sites I found gear reduction boxes, but not stuff that would look suitable for an eBike. I guess what I want to make is similar to what cyclone sells, a motor and an attached (planetary) gear box, but using higher quality and lower weight Astro or similar motors.

 

[Miles]

jag,

Here are a couple of threads which might be of interest:
http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=12687
http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=15233

 

[The Mighty Volt]

Considering the weight and price you'd be better off with an etek

"etek"....weren't they little hair fellas in Star Wars?

 

[recumpence]

I saw some RC stuff, but was uncertain about quality longevity, and it seemed to be mostly for below 1kW applications.

Any other tips?

From my experience, RC drives are typically 4kw or above. They do cost a bit, though. But, you can get into RC systems for a reasonable amount of money if you source components correctly.

Matt

I meant: are there (planetary) gear reduction boxes for say a 3-4kW Astro or similar motor?

I saw the belt drives you and others on the list make, but wanted to learn about alternatives with gears. Browsing a few RC web sites I found gear reduction boxes, but not stuff that would look suitable for an eBike. I guess what I want to make is similar to what cyclone sells, a motor and an attached (planetary) gear box, but using higher quality and lower weight Astro or similar motors.

The problem I see with planetaries is the noise. They also add length to the motor.

Matt

 

[AussieJester]

Do these 1500w kits out-perform the hub motors of similar size?

Seeing they run through the bikes gearing what you think? HELL YES haha

The mounting brackets and freewheel are crap as been stated but the motors themselves are not bad IMO...
Buy an ENO from SickBike parts for the freehwheel crank, some decent fixtures (high tensile steel cap screws)
and IMO its a good way to get a hella fast non-frock motored ebike!

This site is filled with people using crap quality frock motors with castings i could nearly better by melting down coke cans
and pouring into sand moulds but we dont hear alot of negatives about them do we? Heaven forbid we knock the frock

Want the "F1" equivalent of a non frock setups and Mr Recumpence SiR is the man to see for Astro and Reduction drives
the cost is more but the quality is...is..well brilliant! for lack of better word

There are many a member here that have cyclone setups and are happy with them, prolly not alot
are in standard trime but if your a tinkerer i think you can make them a durable setup, lets face it
to the knockers, there isn't alot of off the shelf 'high power' alternatives in the non frock setups
...what have we, the elation kit at double the price and less than half the power?

KiM

 

[dumbass]

I have had 2 small Cyclone kit 2 + years now and not had an big problems with them. However, the mounting does suck big time but if you try doing your own build you are going to need to provide your own mounting anyway. So just improve the mounting. As for noise i have to agree there is no noise like a planetary gearbox. The good thing though is they make so much noise you don't need to worry about chain noise. This all being said Iare you sure there's a gearbox on the 1500w Chclone motor? And there is no comparison between a hub motor and a motor driving through the gear system. If everything is equal the non-hub will always win hands down.

 

[AussieJester]

This all being said Iare you sure there's a gearbox on the 1500w Chclone motor?

There definitely is not a gearbox on the 1500watt cyclone i emailed Paco from Cyclone Taiwan few weeks ago
about this myself as i was considering using the motor only from the 1500watt kit..$AU400 delivered for the motor
and controller/throttle only FYI. Buy the ENO freewheel and freewheel cranks knock up your own motor mounts
and you have a pretty powerful cheap reliable setup that will eat a frock motor up.

KiM

 

[def215]

But I do agree 100% with you Miles. 6T sprockets are a joke

What would be the smallest sprocket that makes sense from efficiency and long sprocket/chain life? 8T? 10T?

For efficiency, I'd say 12t.

9t is really the final limit, though.

http://chain-guide.com/basics/2-2-1-chordal-action.html

wow i never seen a 6T until now. i run a homemade 6T on my scooter and all i can say is that its really rough and pretty noisy. i wonder how that thing sounds like at speed.

 

[boostjuice]

like an electric chainsaw cutting metal.....

[youtube]Y6o-g7YeC4Q[/youtube]

 

[Miles]

As for noise i have to agree there is no noise like a planetary gearbox.

Two 6t sprockets on the same chain beats it, hands down....

 

[dumbass]

As for noise i have to agree there is no noise like a planetary gearbox.

Two 6t sprockets on the same chain beats it, hands down....

OK, I will take your word for it but I'm not convinced it's the size of the sprocket that is making the noise but the RPM of the chain and sprocket. Remember without a gearbox that motor shaft is spinning pretty fast (hence, the reason for the 6t sprocket in the first place). This is one of the reasons cheaper motor/gearbox setups like the Currie 450w is loader then the Cyclone motor/gearbox setups.The Cyclone setups run at 350 rpm output and Currie runs at 500+ rpm output. Having 2 of each the Currie and Cyclone setups I can tell ya the Currie setup is much worse. I would also have concern about wear of the small sprocket and the chain on that small of a sprocket. The trade off of course is to go with a larger motor sprocket and compensate it with a larger crank sprocket. After all it's just a matter of gearing.

 

[recumpence]

It is the sprocket size for sure. I make chain drive systems with 10,000 RPM that are relatively quiet. They run 14 tooth or larger motor sprockets. That keeps the noise down.

Matt

 

[Miles]

The size of the sprocket will make a huge difference to the noise generated.

 

[The Mighty Volt]

Thanks for all the replies. 8)

So by way of synopsis, the motors are good, but the accessories and related bits-and-pieces are somewhat cheapo and tacky?

I dont mind noise. Anything with one of these would be strictly off-road, forest use. I could never do what the guy in the video is doing....highly illegal over here anyways.

I was hoping to mount one on a BMX and have a mini-scrambler/moto-cross, kind of thing.