Only option left..........

[Nvreloader]

Hey Guys
Since, I can't find what I want in the single wheel form of bike trailers, I am left with this option....

This is what I want to do,
Add a second wheel to this single wheel type of bike trailer, (like the above photo's shows) to better increase it's handling when using on single track trails, hauling stuff in and out.

This type of single track off road bike trailer, generally ONLY comes with a single rear wheel,
see info here, of these types of bike trailers.
Google Search

I'll have a second wheel (copy of the OEM wheel), and I'll have to remove the OEM wheel frame, all parts from the trailer body, then figure out the needed spacing between these 2 wheel cages, then reweld both to the proper spots, and both rear wheels will have coil suspension.
And I think I should have a rear brakes, on the rear trailer wheel, and need to figure out how to do that on one or both of the trailer wheels. I am getting too old, to be packing out game quarters on my back, anymore.

I will be using my Miller 211 wire feed welder, using flux core .030 welding wire.
It's been a while, since I have welded anything with this .062>.080" thickness tubing, and I'll need to brush up on welding this type of tubing, I know.

If you are a welder and have welded this type of thin walled tubing,
any thoughts or suggestions would be greatly appreciated, or rebuilding this type if trailer.
yrmv

 

[Nvreloader]

Also, which type of brakes would be the best for this long run of about 8' >10' +, Hydro ?
will have to be routed from front handle bars to rear wheel of the trailer, during trailer use.
Tia

 

[gromike]

Maybe one or two small direct drive hubmotors could act as a trailer brake (and motor too).
Not that I have any idea of a particular motor. Just seems like a really cool idea, and beats hooking up hydraulics.
Or maybe invent bicycle trailer air brakes. Now that would be super cool!

 

[99t4]

At first I thought hydraulic brakes would be a good idea, but unless you leave the trailer hooked up to the bike all the time how would you deal with disconnecting/reconnecting the hoses without having to bleed air out of the system?

Why is the reason for adding the second wheel to the BOB Yak trailer? Stability? Weight capacity? Failover?

Have you tested with a BOB Yak in its original form (single wheel)? What was the deficiency?

There are some experienced fabricator welders here who should be able to give you reliable tips on welding.

 

[Nvreloader]

Thanks Guys,
99T4
My thoughts about the Hydro brakes was to use a set up for the trailer, then have a quick release for the brake handle (think short handle bar stub, on the Hbar), when the rear brake was NOT needed or used, I would remove the complete system from the bike Handle bar, back to the trailer, store in a HD pouch, in the trailer.

Then when needed, restring the brake hand/line to the front bar and clamp down for use, that way I would not need to bleed/mess with the line etc, just use some zip tie's to secure the line as need to set up everything for use..

Would a properly tuned Hydro brake system work for that distance?
Overall bike length of 80" and the trailer length is 80" =13'.6".........

Front wheels with the brake disc are readily available, and I could weld a brake base to the rear tire frame, as needed for the brakes.

Where I got the photo from was from another hunter on the East coast, he had a single wheel bike trailer, and stated it was squirrelly when loaded and want to tip sideways all the time, regardless how the trailer was loaded..

When he altered his trailer, (added a second wheel), he said the performance improve 100% and he could haul better (heavier) loads with no problems, when using single trails. He is using this single wheel trailer, same one as the photo.

All-Terrain Cargo Trailer

Enhance your outdoor escapades with QuietKat's rugged Cargo Trailer. Boasting a robust aluminum frame, 20" wheel, and top-notch suspension, this trailer supports up to 100lbs of cargo. It's your ideal companion for camping, hunting, and fishing - Order now to pair with a QuietKat eBike.

quietkat.com

I have 3 different friends and they all have single wheel trailers and they all say that their trailers have the same results, all are different brand names, but with smaller diameter wheels.
Your thoughts and suggestions......
Tia

 

[offGridDownUnder]

And I think I should have a rear brakes

WHY do you want hydraulic brakes?

Do you know you need more braking force, or are you just concerned?

Do you know of hybrid brakes, like HY/RD calipers with a hydraulic brake actuated by a cable?

Just posing questions to think about. My cable brakes are adequate, and easy to repair out in the bush.

 

[Nvreloader]

Down under
This will be used for hauling heavy loads of game/gear off the Mtn, with steep grades coming down hill, loads can be around 200# + the bikes/my weight = 300#'s =, so I believe that I should have/need good HD rear trailer brakes, to help the Wart Hogs brakes.

I don't known of any other types of brake systems that should work.
I have a cable system rim brakes, on my other bike, and I know that they won't be the best to use.. IMHO.

Your thoughts or suggestions..........
Tia

 

[Apartunis]

I find that trailer brakes do not make sense until there is a /lot/ of weight in the trailer. Until there is a bunch of weight on the trailer wheel, braking results in skidding and sideways sliding.

Given the weird chassis dynamics of two wheels on a leaning trailer, it would be better to use a single bigger wheel and tire like 20 x 5" or an ATV wheel.

 

[gromike]

What about tongue weight. With the trailer's wheels all the way back half the weight is carried by your bike's rear tire.
If you're going to do a two wheel trailer it would be better to have your cargo platform over the trailer's axle.

 

[lnanek]

Looks like it's already quick release anyway?

https://a.aliexpress.com/_mLPWRp7

Feels like you could just buy two, angle grind off the plate the quick release rear bolts to in the center back off both, then one quick weld across the top and bottom of each plate at either side on the back on one.

I didn't think I'd bother with the angle grinder and welding, though. Looks enough to just u bolt some steel angle iron vertically on either side on the back and bolt each quick release to that.

 

[offGridDownUnder]

Your thoughts or suggestions..........

You can find out in stages. There is no legal requirement that the first ride must have an entire bear on it.

1. Build the trailer, see that it works without loads. Work out the kinks.
2. Start putting loads on it, see how that changes.
3. Little loads, then bigger. Disk cable brakes are easy to route
4. Switch to HY/RD or full hydraulic after you've proven you need them, and have a reason to work out the extra mechanics.

"When you are exploring the unknown, by definition you do not know what you will find."
"How do you eat an elephant? One bite at a time."

 

[glennb]

There are non-leak hydraulic connectors. I've never seen or used them, but am sure they're used on two piece frames for airline travel - the type with threaded junctions in top and down tube to separate the frame and effectively create a folding bike out of a regular triangle frame.

 

[Nvreloader]

Off Grid and Guys
I had thought of building the whole trailer from the ground up, but didn't have good way to bend the top/bottom frame rails, along with the rear yoke for the rear tire connection, using aircraft tubing, very strong and lots of choices/sizes to work from..

I have some emails out to these type of bike trailers, seeing if I could obtain the rear wheel/frame spare parts, so far I have had no replies back. I just may buy 2 of the same make/style and remove the complete rear frame section, to add to one frame.

I have found several of these type trailers, most seem to be the BOB Yak brand, that don't have the rear suspension for the rear tires, or the wide rear tires, that I want.

From what I have seen, adding rear suspension for both rear wheels doesn't appear to be that much of a problem, and I'll be using 24" Fat Tires also, so I may be building both of the rear tire frames to match.

I have over 800#'s of bagged shot, (25#'s per bag), so I have that end covered, for testing..
Still pencil whipping things out......to see the best options or the best way to go.....

Thoughts and suggestions........
Tia

 

[offGridDownUnder]

Thoughts and suggestions........

Find a trailer you like, contact the manufacturer, ask if they will sell you the second wheel set. Yes, it will cost you.

I bought replacement sections of my trike frame when an earlier design for my motor mount crushed the frame. I can admit this as it wasn't my design that crushed it, but I learned from that and now it's solid.

 

[Nvreloader]

OG
Have already done that, no replies back, so far.
Tia

 

[99t4]

single track trails, hauling stuff in and out.

Depending on your singletrack, might you be able to fit a more standard type of two wheel trailer?

This is what you want to do, right?

https://www.reconpowerbikes.com/product/recon-cargo-master-trailer/

 

[Nvreloader]

99T4
Yep, that the end result, when I can draw a tag......lol, and you are on a road.........lol.

The average single track trail around here is less than 18" wide, think cow & wild horse trails, go everywhere, this was my main reason for the single wheel trailer, with the dual wheels at the rear, to reduce the side tipping etc.

I try to post a couple photo's, of some of these area's,

20220326-125902-resized hosted at ImgBB

Image 20220326-125902-resized in the Don Hansell's images album

ibb.co

20220326-133329 hosted at ImgBB

Image 20220326-133329 in the Don Hansell's images album

ibb.co

20220326-125838 hosted at ImgBB

Image 20220326-125838 in the Don Hansell's images album

ibb.co

Going out thru this sage brush are hundreds of trails, I don't think a wider trailer would work, as I would be hanging up on the brush all the time.
And when in the Mtn's these trails follow the contours going to any other areas, with steep side hills always, and are very narrow in width.
Thanks for the photo, Good Shooter Buck......
Tia

 

[fill]

I have some limited experience with towing and trailers, a pita at the best of times..

I could be missing the point completely? hope so.. but wont adding a 2nd wheel to the rear just double the opportunities for the trailer to act 'squirrelly' upon hitting an obstacle?

If its stability at lower speeds thats the main concern I have seen a top end cargo bike with a huge front hopper that has low speed activated guide /parking wheels drop down.. Perhaps a pair of kiddy stabaliser wheels dropped by a $5 accelerometer with a rake to the rear could work?

 

[yooper2001]

99T4
Yep, that the end result, when I can draw a tag......lol, and you are on a road.........lol.

The average single track trail around here is less than 18" wide, think cow & wild horse trails, go everywhere, this was my main reason for the single wheel trailer, with the dual wheels at the rear, to reduce the side tipping etc.

I try to post a couple photo's, of some of these area's,

20220326-125902-resized hosted at ImgBB

Image 20220326-125902-resized in the Don Hansell's images album

ibb.co

20220326-133329 hosted at ImgBB

Image 20220326-133329 in the Don Hansell's images album

ibb.co

20220326-125838 hosted at ImgBB

Image 20220326-125838 in the Don Hansell's images album

ibb.co

Going out thru this sage brush are hundreds of trails, I don't think a wider trailer would work, as I would be hanging up on the brush all the time.
And when in the Mtn's these trails follow the contours going to any other areas, with steep side hills always, and are very narrow in width.
Thanks for the photo, Good Shooter Buck......
Tia

I am cheap.. .I simply copied my kiddy trailer arm and took the front handles off my two wheeled game cart...and installed the arm. I tried the one wheel cart, but 400 pounds of meat, hide , and horn made it too tippy. I can't wait to see what you guys come up with!

 

[glennb]

I'd experiment with panniers on each side of a single wheel trailer. Idea being to get the mass as low as possible.

 

[Nvreloader]

Guys take a look at the photo .......(not my trailer, just building one like it), It works very well,

I just attempting to figure out the best welding option,
and if I should make the second wheel to add on, or buy another replacement.
It needs to be as narrow as possible, to slide between the sage brush/rocks/trees on a
16>18" wide cow or horse trail.
Your thoughts and suggestions
Tia

 

[offGridDownUnder]

Common axle? You might choose hubs with 12mm or 15mm thru-axles.

Or do you plan to pivot at the back of the basket/front of the wheel? That does not seem practical, though.

 

[Nvreloader]

Common axle? You might choose hubs with 12mm or 15mm thru-axles.

Or do you plan to pivot at the back of the basket/front of the wheel? That does not seem practical, though.

OG
If you are referring to the rear trailer wheels, (common axle), each rear wheel will have a separate axle, and have separate suspension via a coil spring, for the best ride conditions when using..

As too the pivot, the trailer and the hitch attachment off the rear wheel, will have movement in left/right and up/down directions at the front of the trailer.

See info photo's here:

All-Terrain Cargo Trailer

Enhance your outdoor escapades with QuietKat's rugged Cargo Trailer. Boasting a robust aluminum frame, 20" wheel, and top-notch suspension, this trailer supports up to 100lbs of cargo. It's your ideal companion for camping, hunting, and fishing - Order now to pair with a QuietKat eBike.

quietkat.com

Tia

 

[RunForTheHills]

What about tongue weight. With the trailer's wheels all the way back half the weight is carried by your bike's rear tire.
If you're going to do a two wheel trailer it would be better to have your cargo platform over the trailer's axle.

I think this is a valid point if you put a couple of hundred pounds in the trailer with the wheels in the rear like that.

 

[Nvreloader]

Thanks Guys,

From the info I received from Q Cat, (the trailers maker), it is rated at 100#'s for a single wheel
load. When It get's here,

I find out the tongue when loaded with 100#'s (25#'s per sack), and then check the TW up to 200#'s, with the single wheel.
Then I'll recheck the TW with the dual rear wheels, to see the difference, up to 200#'s,
same way as I did the 100# check.

Then, I'll have valid info to work with and or use.
Tia,