Opening a VW MEB (ID3,4 etc) cell module

[j bjork]

They look like this:

The endplates are rather easy to get off, cut in the welds.

There are plastic in most directions underneath, so there is some room for errors.

This is what you will find underneath.
Here I have cut off the top as well.
The first cut I did was in the rounded corner between the top and side, dont do that..
A cell is right under there.
Instead cut in the top, a little bit in from the side.
There is plastic between the top and cells:

In the bottom there is a hard, putty like thermally conductive substance that seem to stick very well to both cells and alu case:

Between the cells there is a pretty tough glue as well:

I think it might be possible to slide the whole package out if you could dissolve the blue, thermally conductive stuff.
Then you only have to cut the ends of, that part is not too bad. The other cutting is pretty dangerous I think.

The question is how to dissolve the blue stuff? And also the glue between cells.

 

[amberwolf]

Isopropyl alcohol is a common solvent for some classes of adhesives, and is usually harmless to plastics, and is relatively safe to use.

The stuff below requires significant health precautions including preventing getting it on your skin, but may be more effective in some cases.

Methyl alcohol, Xylene, and Toluene are other solvents for certain adhesives that the above wont' do, but also dissolve some plastics (so might damage the cell pouches).

 

[batteryGOLD]

looking at those pictures it seems I'm watching a "countdown bomb.."! and imagine many of those go at each car, and than car goes on the roads, and soon 100% all veicules electric, soo should be there many "bombs on wheels" circulating everywhere..
and people park electric cars inside house garage, or collective garages and leave it for chargin all night/day.. and than go to sleep having good dreams! welcome to the electric veicule world!

Glad lithium tech is very safe hazard..
gas is also hazard, soo everything is dangerous, even walk!
just sayin..


Anyway those battery modules are very well engineered , and are capable of outputting thousands of amperes peak!
A state of art design and functionality!
Thanks for content posting

 

[Hillhater]

Dimentions ?
Weights ?
Capacity ?
Cost ?

 

[ZeroEm]

I like them cells not to tall but long.

 

[batteryGOLD]

Compare those in terms of engineered level/performance in a scale 0 to 10
who wins, who loses? pros and cons?
*is Elon Musk a smart dude? *edited

 

[dominik h]

Is this the 12S2P 156Ah module with the LG E78 Cell?
I was also looking at this for my next build.
59x22,5x11 cm

 

[DogDipstick]

Yeah I have a few cells stuck to the sides of a OEM EV modules with some kind of hotglue.

Completely different manufacturer, but still a problem we share.

I wont yank it off. I dont want loose pouches like you show in the pic..... those cells are damaged physically now, and I do not want to do that.

I have 6. Six cells ( 3x pairs) ( from 3x modules) ( end cells) stuck to an end module in an OEm assy. Cost of these 6 were 90$.. so I am not to sad if I dont get tehm out. Its 600 watt hours approx. I'll just throw em away before I build a pack out of questionable cells. Whats 90$. Peace of mind is worth more. They are new but oh well. Anybody want em?

IF you find out, how to get them apart, i would like to know. I considered heating them in an oven to around 180*F. Hot air gun does not do it. I cannot dissolve the gunk with acetone, Methyl Ethel ketone ( should work, its powerful solvent, it doesnt), gasoline, or alcohol. Does nothing.

Cool cell. I have a friend who built wth BMW hybrid modules but he left them in the OEM module. Those Germans are world famous for overengineering things.

Can you get any serial numbers, barcodes, or printed cell name labels on teh face of the cell under the blue stuff? i want to see what the cell name is. Is usually printed on teh face of the cell in small black printing. I see it underneath the " bluestuff" pic.... I want to know exactly what cell that is. name.

 

[batteryGOLD]

I'm a bit worried about pouch cells technology.. maybe is just me..
Becauseeee.. those tend to expand volume, could goo twice fat!! Is this just a bad issue? Or no problemo?

I've seen many types of lipo pouch cells keep inflating with time.. even if you leave those stored.. they go fat any way with time after some use!! correct me if I'm wrong.

Q: "why pouch cells do not have gas release valve?"
R: " I don't know!"

All mobile phones uses pouch lipo cells, and there were some problems at some models because battery expands natural way. Soo, it needs more space, but space not available, sooo whats goin to happen??

at least lithium tech is more safe than alkaline.. they do not explode!.. check this
Google soruce
Q: "What can cause an alkaline battery to explode?"
R: "That's why most alkaline batteries have warnings – albeit tiny ones – telling consumers they could explode. Those warnings instruct not to insert an alkaline battery the wrong direction, expose it to high heat, or charge a non-rechargeable battery. All of those mistakes can prompt explosion.30/06/2011"

Stop being pessimist! Do not worry too much, be happy!

 

[DogDipstick]

Q: "why pouch cells do not have gas release valve?"
R: " I don't know!"

Pouch cell DOES have " gas release vent".. Certainly.

Every pouch I have can release gas from vent designed into assembly.

you can see the vent on the top of this cell.. It is called a " cell vent" .

The cell vent is clearly shown.

 

[batteryGOLD]

Pouch cell DOES have " gas release vent".. Certainly.

Every pouch I have can release gas from vent designed into assembly.
you can see the vent on the top of this cell.. It is called a " cell vent" .
The cell vent is clearly shown.

I'm not sure about that.. but if U say, I believe.
I've seen +100 lipo packs inflated from ebikes and other veicules after time/use..low capacity/higher IR and fat battery! even Turnigy batteries (ask to RC dudes to do a study how much lipo cells gets inflated at RC cars, they should have the answer)

I know that 18650 cells have many protections features, including internal fuse, gas release valve, and a strong metal case. And limited amount around 12Wh per cell. thats x amount energy density for a y amount of strong case. dont put 20Wh in same case.
safety is about some level strong case for x amount of energy density, to ensure keeps safe under pressure , overheat and other failures.

lipo has a strong case, similar to a milk pack..

 

[DogDipstick]

Pouch cell DOES have " gas release vent".. Certainly.


The cell vent is clearly shown.

I'm not sure about that.. have many protections features, including internal fuse, gas release valve,

Lipos can be very strong in hard case, and the tab can be internally fused. just like a fuse on a 18650 cell. To the tab.

look up the definition of " Zipper Tab Fuse"... Zipper tabs. very common in OEM pack design. Yes, pouch cell can have internal fuseing for SCC and internal shorted cell.



Look up the definition of. I will post pictures of internal short A123 pouch cell fuse of 1800A. Serves same propose of 18650 fuse for cut off from ( isolation) for internal short current.

Do you wish for me to post pictures of all these things? the cell vents are clearly in the picture above. You must know where to look.

This is a 1800A zipper fuse on a A123 20ah LiFePo4 cell. You can also see the cell vents next to the tabs in this ( and ever ) pic. That set of holes is designed to handle 1800A, and blow the circuit at >1800A.

this is cell level fusing on a pouch cell.

 

[j bjork]

The thick part of a cell is about 515x97x8,8mm
They are LG 78Ah cells.
There are some markings, but most seems destroyed by the glue.
The only one I have been able to read is this:

I tried some "label off", it worked ok on the glue between cells. Not like they just popped apart, but I was able to use some 1mm thick plastic sheet and split two cells. I still havent been able to do much about the heat conductive stuff in the bottom, but I havent tried much solvents yet.

I think it might work to mill of the bottom before doing anything else,(and not cut it open like I have done) then cut off the ends and pop out the whole package down.
It shouldnt be too hard to just scratch off the conductive stuff between the cells then.
To bad I dont have a mill

Is this the 12S2P 156Ah module with the LG E78 Cell?
I was also looking at this for my next build.
59x22,5x11 cm

It is a 8s3p module, but they should be very similar I think.

 

[batteryGOLD]

Lipos can be very strong in hard case, and the tab can be internally fused. just like a fuse on a 18650 cell. To the tab.

look up the definition of " Zipper Tab Fuse"... Zipper tabs. very common in OEM pack design. Yes, pouch cell can have internal fuseing for SCC and internal shorted cell.

Look up the definition of. I will post pictures of internal short A123 pouch cell fuse of 1800A. Serves same propose of 18650 fuse for cut off from ( isolation) for internal short current.
the cell vents are clearly in the picture.

Thanks Sir for information.
One thing is true, pouch cells do have superior performance and better look than any other thing! Plus amazing current delivery.
I think also less cost manufacturing.

 

[larsb]

I’m currently looking for these cells if anyone has a source!

@j bjork: did you ever succeed in splitting the cells apart? I’m super interested to learn how since getting these pouches seems hard

 

[j bjork]

No, but I think if you start by milling off the bottom plate, then cutting off the ends it should be possible.
If you can find someone willing to mill off the bottom plate

 

[Pajda]

I’m currently looking for these cells if anyone has a source!

Send PM to user tumich here on ES CHEAP NEW ORIGINAL 18650 21700 BATTERY CELLS, POUCHES AND PACKS

 

[larsb]

Thanks, i’ve contacted him.

 

[Edvin]

The thick part of a cell is about 515x97x8,8mm
They are LG 78Ah cells.
There are some markings, but most seems destroyed by the glue.
The only one I have been able to read is this:

I tried some "label off", it worked ok on the glue between cells. Not like they just popped apart, but I was able to use some 1mm thick plastic sheet and split two cells. I still havent been able to do much about the heat conductive stuff in the bottom, but I havent tried much solvents yet.

I think it might work to mill of the bottom before doing anything else,(and not cut it open like I have done) then cut off the ends and pop out the whole package down.
It shouldnt be too hard to just scratch off the conductive stuff between the cells then.
To bad I dont have a mill



It is a 8s3p module, but they should be very similar I think.

Did you ever measure or checked at what current the fuse popped on the flex cable inside the module?

I have modules from ID3 but not sure about the maximum balancing current the modules can take. I've heard everything from 175mA, 300mA and up to 750mA.

 

[imgonnawreckthisthing]

looking at those pictures it seems I'm watching a "countdown bomb.."! and imagine many of those go at each car, and than car goes on the roads, and soon 100% all veicules electric, soo should be there many "bombs on wheels" circulating everywhere..
and people park electric cars inside house garage, or collective garages and leave it for chargin all night/day.. and than go to sleep having good dreams! welcome to the electric veicule world!

Glad lithium tech is very safe hazard..
gas is also hazard, soo everything is dangerous, even walk!
just sayin..


Anyway those battery modules are very well engineered , and are capable of outputting thousands of amperes peak!
A state of art design and functionality!
Thanks for content posting

electric cars wont be using lithium. there is new tech coming. source: classified