Operating cost?

[AussieJester]

but you are riding this :

uke:

Could look cool....just needs some mirrors, lights & reflectors

Throw on a Harrington jacket some skin tight jeans
better yet, a tailor made suit! start pumping out music from
The Who, The Kinks and The Cure and your in
business ;-P

KiM

 

[SamTexas]

You guys are too funny!

How about this one? Any better?

 

[amberwolf]

vs

vs.

or

:lol:

Back to the topic, I should someday try to figure out operating cost of those bikes. Since most of it is either recycled junk or was donated, it would probably end up extremely low compared to most, but if I had to buy all the stuff used on them at retail prices I'm gonna guess it'd be similar to what others already posted. (of course, if I did have to buy it all at retail, neither bike would actually exist! )

As a first-order estimate, for the original CrazyBike2 with SLA and powerchair motor, I think I only spent money on the LED brakelight bar, which was a few dollars at a junkyard, and the CFLs I bought for 59 cents each at a dollar store that are in the headlight and taillight. Well, I probably spent another $20-$50 on various grinding wheels, cutoff wheels, hacksaw blades, and welding wire to build the actual bike. Mmmm...$5 for the PDA used to run Veloace for a speedo. Trying hard to think (brain sizzling, dogs wake up thinking they smell dinner cooking) of anything else, but I can't right now. Everything else was recycled junk or donated as used junk parts. I don't have costs for charging or mileage under power on it, though, so I'm not sure how to guesstimate the actual operating cost.

A first-order estimate for the original DayGlo Avenger's first friction drive would be about $20 for the two motors and the skate wheels, about $5 for the JBweld I used trying to get it working along the way, something like $8-10 for the LEDs used in the turn signals and taillight built for it (not counting the brakelight bar, which was later moved to CB2). I used several parts from a dead ScootNGo bought at a thrift store, probably about $30-40 worth of what I was able to use off of it, I think. That comprises the throttle, dead controller I rebuilt and modded, SLA batteries, ebrake lever, and some wiring. About $60 for the crappy dayglo paint (rustoleum) which was a mistake because it was really cruddy paint and faded very fast, too. Bike itself was an award for 10 years at CompUSA; IIRC everything else was recycled scrap and junk. Again, no charging costs or mileage, so not sure of the actual operating cost. I guess over the few months the SLA lasted, I got a few hundred miles out of it?

Someday I really ought to work out exactly what costs there were to each of these, and tabulate them in their build threads.


Oh, and just for giggles, the headlight setup on DGA, and the turn signals and taillight on CB2, all came off a Honda Spree scooter carcass that had a fair resemblance (in black, though) to that Metropolitan. :lol:

 

[dogman dan]

Hard to beat freecycle for keeping the cost down, that's for sure.

Hard to beat free test motors too, so my actual costs may be less. When I talk cost, I consider what I should have paid for the motor in the calculations.

I just sold a roketta 150cc scooter since I lost interest in riding it. But the calculated cost on it was also just about 15 cents a mile. In the end, since I sold it, the cost was lower, but not by too much. The cheapest vehicle I ever owned was a honda 125. Drove the snot out of it for two years, any repairs were along the line of replacing the muffler with some old vacume cleaner pipe, and sold it for the exact price I paid for it. So the total cost of two years use was gas, at 60 mpg.

But again, the real big deal for me is the savings from not wearing out the car driving it daily. For a while, it seemed like one weekend a month I was down spending my check on parts and wasting the weekend fixing a car. I think I've cut my driving by at least 75%. At the end of the month, I have at least $100 to pour into ebikes now.

 

[SamTexas]

The cheapest vehicle I ever owned was a honda 125. Drove the snot out of it for two years, any repairs were along the line of replacing the muffler with some old vacume cleaner pipe, and sold it for the exact price I paid for it. So the total cost of two years use was gas, at 60 mpg.

I still have a 1988 Suzuki GN250 which I bought in "like new" condition in 1993 for $1,200. It's a 250cc air cooled single cylinder, top speed 75mph. Worst gas mileage is 60mpg (winter), best is 75mpg. Total maintenance and repair cost for the past 17 years is less than $500. I can sell it right now for $800. Including registration, inspection and insurance, operating cost is just under 8 cents/mile.
View attachment 1988 GN250.jpg

 

[chroot]

Freecycle is nice, Yedal's ebike is helluva better because of higher quality parts may last forever than freecycle parts. I mean couple years later and it would paid off what Yedal did spend on his ebike worthwhile.

 

[chroot]

You should have keep scooter and I used be have '90 Yamaha Riva 50cc gets like 100-125mpg and I almost never maintenance the scooter forever till I sold it. I saved so much money on that scooter.

I am in process rid my '96 Jeep Cherokee 4x4 and My jeep gets 14 MPG + maintenance ridiculous costy.

I just sold a roketta 150cc scooter since I lost interest in riding it.

 

[pdf]

Great thread!

I like to think in terms of time to payback because I have no idea how long the battery or other components will last. Payback depends on what you save over other forms of transportation. I would otherwise drive as a single occupant and I have estimated costs for the car at 50 cents/mile but that is probably high. It is probably closer to 40 cents/mile for me (older car, only liability insurance, clean driving record, do some of my own work), but hey, let me dream a little. The IRS allowed 50 cents a mile in 2010, I think, for use of a personal vehicle for business so it is at least in the ballpark.

I paid a bunch for what I have, about $2000 for the base electrics (motor, controller, battery, throttle). $400 for the Xtracycle conversion to a $200 bike. I have about 2700 miles on the system, as of today. The cost of electricity is negligible for my situation (aroung 0.2 cents per mile so I don't worry about it). I have probably spent a couple hundred on my bike and bike-specific clothing since then, but I conveniently ignore that. Some of the cost has been in buying tools to do maintenance on my bike, and I don't include that either. Not fair but that is how I delude myself. Anywho, I basically use the original purchase price of the electrics and the Xtracycle (I already owned the bike) as the cost of my ebike habit and 50 cents per mile as the cost of the car. That gives a break-even mileage of 4800 miles.

If you look on the 'net, the "greenies" calculate what they call the "true cost of driving" which tries to quantify things like the cost of health effects from emissions, road construction not covered by gas taxes, environmental degradation, etc. This number is all over the place. I've seen $1.36 a mile but there are some estimates that are higher and some that are lower. Anyway, to make me feel good, I also calculate what I call the "environmental breakeven point" that accounts for this and using the $1.36/mile figure, that breakeven is around 1700 miles, which I have already met. So depending on how "green" you are, you can pick your numbers and be a winner too!

Part of the reason I started ebiking was environmentally motivated. So my "personal breakeven" is probably somewhere in the middle if I am truthful about my costs and accont for some of the other costs not in the 50 cents per mile number. However I am also personally fiscally conservative (or a cheapskate in other words) so I go toward the higher breakeven mileage side. I have 4000 miles as my mental milestone. After that, I am going to tell people (that is to say, brag) I have "paid for the system" and leave it at that.

As you call tell, I think about this way too much. However, when I am riding in and it is in the 20s and I see a commuter in his/her nice warm car, I have to come up with a reason.

 

[SamTexas]

Great thread!
...

I paid a bunch for what I have, about $2000 for the base electrics (motor, controller, battery, throttle). $400 for the Xtracycle conversion to a $200 bike. I have about 2700 miles on the system, as of today. The cost of electricity is negligible for my situation (aroung 0.2 cents per mile so I don't worry about it). I have probably spent a couple hundred on my bike and bike-specific clothing since then, but I conveniently ignore that. Some of the cost has been in buying tools to do maintenance on my bike, and I don't include that either. Not fair but that is how I delude myself.
...

If you look on the 'net, the "greenies" calculate what they call the "true cost of driving" which tries to quantify things like the cost of health effects from emissions, road construction not covered by gas taxes, environmental degradation, etc...

Although I don't own an ebike, I gather there is a substantial cost in experimentations. This experimental cost exists in any new product, especially when the end product can be built by regular people. I see this phenomenon too in the "gasoline motorized bicycle" group even though that is a more mature product than ebike.

Forget the "greenies". Such a bunch of loud talkers, criticizers without much actions to back up the preaching, without true, practical solutions to the current problems. People who actually do something, however small to minimize there own consumption are the true heroes. "Greenies", well, are just greenies.

 

[Ypedal]

2 obvious major camps of ebike fanatics, the one's that make every dollar count and make it a challenge to build the lowest possible cost means of transportation, amberwolf is a prime example of this, i'm amazed at how he can do what he does with so little and end up with a functional rig !!!..

then there are the others.. who seek the best possible performance, or the longest possible range, or the fastest , etc etc etc.. not a financial goal as much as a need for speed...

Me, if i was going to actually own a car, i'd be the type to pour $$$ into a high end stereo, tinted windows, rims, etc etc etc.....

So operating cost of a car mod addiction vs an ebike mod addiction, well, alot cheaper on the ebike front ! lol..

 

[John in CR]

There's no way I can go car-less with a family of 5. That said, I have replaced use of the family car by well over 90% for the past 25 months. Gas is over $4/gal here and I replaced over $2000 in gas with only $60 in electricity in that period, and because my bike is more convenient and much more fun, I ride it more. Even after 2 years I still look for errands to run. 8)

I just look at ebike costs as hobby costs, and this is by far my cheapest hobby to date without considering the reduced gas cost, which is just icing on the cake.

edit- I couldn't begin to put a dollar value on my time saved without the aggravations of being stuck in traffic in a car, so let's call it a priceless benefit.

 

[liveforphysics]

Cameron: Yes, Naeem is impressive. But good as he is, I still don't believe he can escape the battery cost.
Sam

Naeem could out survive gravity through perseverance.
Naeem could not only escape battery cost, but somehow supply batteries for yourself as well (if he needed to do it), and keep his family fed.

Never impart your limits to another man.

 

[deronmoped]

The extra exercise you get that adds to your overall well being and keeping you fit so you are more likely to stay out of the hospital.

Priceless!

Deron.

 

[dnmun]

that nipplelicious blonde is standing in eagle creek, and the little waterfall drops into a famous spot called 'the punchbowl'.

that has to be photoshopped in there since where she is standing is in the creek.

now to be really grossed out, instead imagine me skinny dipping there 35 years ago. gross huh?

eagle creek is just few miles from multnomah falls in the columbia gorge. the trail is paved now, occasionally people slip and fall off the cliff down into the creek and die, but it is really a great way to get right into the what people think of when they think of the oregon woods. eagle creek trail (about 20 yards to the left of this photo) actually goes up to the pacific crest trail higher up close to mt hood. a really popular day hike from portland into the columbia gorge.

 

[AussieJester]

Cameron: Yes, Naeem is impressive. But good as he is, I still don't believe he can escape the battery cost.
Sam

Naeem could out survive gravity through perseverance.
Naeem could not only escape battery cost, but somehow supply batteries for yourself as well (if he needed to do it), and keep his family fed.

Never impart your limits to another man.

Naeem IS the Chuck Norris of frugal e-bike building... :lol:

@dnmun...yeeeah...sorry buddy still not seeing that Oregonian Waterfall in the pic

KiM

 

[dogman dan]

Was there a pic of a waterfall?

Sold the roketta because I'd rather ride the ebikes. It was just sitting there, eating $120 a year to insure while I rode it less than 300 miles.

The health benefit of even faux pedaling is enormous compared to sitting on the scoot, and it was not a japanese made one, just a china cheapo.

I like the break even point vs driving your car viewpoint. I also like to consider that any kind of cheaper vehicle that keeps miles off your car saves future money. Figuring in both, break even on an ebike can be as soon as 1000 miles if you are using a less expensive option. Maybe 500 miles for an E-zip.

 

[AussieJester]

I prolly done about ~600km all told and paid out ~3k for my ebikes... not so economical for me LoL
Luky if i do 5km a day so will take me alot of years beofre it has 'paid for itself' I guess am one of those
YPedal MaN described as "then there are the others"

KiM

 

[pdf]

I prolly done about ~600km all told and paid out ~3k for my ebikes... not so economical for me LoL
Luky if i do 5km a day so will take me alot of years beofre it has 'paid for itself' I guess am one of those
YPedal MaN described as "then there are the others"
KiM

Ah yes, but you are not counting bonus km for style. Me, I'm digging my way out of a style hole. Rode my "ride" up to a watering hole a couple months ago and my friend commented that I was the geekiest rider he'd ever seen. Yes, picture me pull into the parking lot with my office khakis, black loafers, two pant straps, helmet over toboggan, gloves, thrift-store windbreaker, glasses, and 4 bags of groceries in my Xtracycle panniers and a family pack of papertowels tied on the rack. I need a few hundred km just to get to ground level, style-wise. Don't think I'm going to be able to utilize the extra deck space of the Xtracycle for toting any hotties around any time soon.

Where is the "geek" emoticon?

 

[chroot]

I agree, amberwolf has access the bicycle junkyard, I saw amberwolf's picture somewhere in other section forum and I am sure lot of us don't have access bicycle junkyard nearby everyone's house.

California is so expensive living cost and I looked around many places to try find bicycle junkyard. It seems NONE nowhere except http://www.craiglist.org depends on hit score on some parts for less price.

amberwolf is a prime example of this, i'm amazed at how he can do what he does with so little and end up with a functional rig !!!..

 

[liveforphysics]

I prolly done about ~600km all told and paid out ~3k for my ebikes... not so economical for me LoL
Luky if i do 5km a day so will take me alot of years beofre it has 'paid for itself' I guess am one of those
YPedal MaN described as "then there are the others"

KiM

I think I've got less miles for double the money.

It's tough to get a lot of miles on any 1 vehicle though when you've got 4 other fun motorcycles and 3 other fun cars all plated and ready to rock and roll.

 

[SamTexas]

Cost can be all over the place. Take my case, one used Giant LaFree $50.00, battery pack and charger $450.00 total $500.00. Who knows how many miles I will put on this bike before I get tired of it, get a better one, something breaks... The first mile is $500.00, but I'm probably getting close to a thousand, so that is like 50 cents a mile right now.

Deron,

I heard good things about the Giant LaFree. It's one of those true pedelec (power assist) that utilizes the Panasonic bottom bracket motor, right? How do you like it so far? I'd love to hear your personal evaluation based on the thousand miles experience. $50? That's an excellent deal! Even if you had to get a battery pack and a charger.

Sam

 

[commanda]

As far as wearing out batteries and battery replacement cost.

I've gone for Prismatic LiFePO4 in both my vehicles. One scooter, one pushbike.
My daily commute to work uses about 25% of the capacity of either.
Based on the 2000/3000 cycles for 80%/70% DOD respectively, I fully expect my batteries to outlast the vehicles they are in, if not myself.
Excepting death by accident, of course (the batteries that is, not me).

Amanda

 

[SamTexas]

As far as wearing out batteries and battery replacement cost.

I've gone for Prismatic LiFePO4 in both my vehicles. One scooter, one pushbike.
My daily commute to work uses about 25% of the capacity of either.
Based on the 2000/3000 cycles for 80%/70% DOD respectively, I fully expect my batteries to outlast the vehicles they are in, if not myself.
Excepting death by accident, of course (the batteries that is, not me).

Amanda

So how old is the battery today? What's the reason for carrying 4 times the weight of battery when only one is sufficient?

 

[commanda]

As far as wearing out batteries and battery replacement cost.

I've gone for Prismatic LiFePO4 in both my vehicles. One scooter, one pushbike.
My daily commute to work uses about 25% of the capacity of either.
Based on the 2000/3000 cycles for 80%/70% DOD respectively, I fully expect my batteries to outlast the vehicles they are in, if not myself.
Excepting death by accident, of course (the batteries that is, not me).

Amanda

So how old is the battery today? What's the reason for carrying 4 times the weight of battery when only one is sufficient?

The scooter batteries are over 2 years old now. Guesstimate 600 - 700 charge cycles by now. The extra capacity has 2 functions.
One is the ability to run errands, without danger of being stranded.
Two is the C rating. The scooter draws almost 120 amps peak. Thundersky LiFePO4 are rated 3C max. So 40AHr x 3C is 120 amps. Perfect fit.
And, if the capacity decreases with age, I've got a lot of overhead. As for weight, the scooter is now 30Kg lighter after dumping the lead.
Coupled with a recent fitment of new tyres with a higher profile, the scooter is much more fun to ride than when I first got it.

Amanda

 

[SamTexas]

>>>The scooter batteries are over 2 years old now. Guesstimate 600 - 700 charge cycles by now.<<<
Do you know if the batteries still have the original 40AH capacity? Or has the capacity decreased somewhat? If so, by how much, 5%, 10%?

>>>Two is the C rating. The scooter draws almost 120 amps peak.<<<
That's some powerful scooter! Is it home built?