overwhelmed newbie

[classic94]

Hi guys, I want to buy a conversion kit got my 26” bike. I have a 26 mile round trip to work and can charge the bike before I head home.
I want to go 25 mph, would like more if my budget can afford it. I'm overwhelmed by all the kits that are out there. I've read here that some members sell parts for kits, would this be less expensive than buying a kit from a company?
My budget is $1000, I live in Santa Ana, California. Amped bikes are local, I was looking at their geared kit. I'm sure you guys get this question posted every day, buy some feedback would be greatly appreciated. What's my best bet?
Thanks guys!
.

 

[arkmundi]

http://em3ev.com/ has a very nice kit, with the "right" battery, in my opinion. Batteries are where your cost and frustration will come, if not chosen wisely.

 

[Dauntless]

Don't blame you, I've built plenty of things before but these guys have me wanting to hold off until I'm sure I can get it right. First I'll tell you to think in terms of two batteries that you'll charge separately at work. At best you'll get 10 miles from one new with some pedaling.

If you go to Myron's Extreme Machine in Fullerton, (Commonwealth, a block east of the firestation) they have the 450w rear Currietech with the motor on the side. When I paid CASH there was no sales tax. The price is up from when I got mine. http://currietech.com/electric-conversion-kits/

If you want something bigger I've never had one of these but people on this board seem to like it. http://www.yescomusa.com/search.php?mode=search&page=1

13 miles. Find a good seat.

 

[The fingers]

Welcome to the forum. Amped and Myron's are both good local vendors. I agree that 26 miles is a long pull for an average battery to go round trip. My max is about 10 miles each way and I charge at work. I went to work a couple of times and found out that I wasn't scheduled. Without charging before the return trip, I had to pedal hard most of the way home. :x The geared hubmotor should be much easier to pedal without power. My kit worked very well for the last year and a half, but I'm going to need a new battery this summer. I hope to get a better one that still fits in the carry bag that came with the kit. :wink:

 

[mark5]

classic94, Yescomusa is not too far away from you in City of Industry. Their kits will cost less than Amped leaving you more money to get a good battery. They often sell on their website and eBay with free shipping or one can probably go to their warehouse and pick up. Here's Tim McIntyre's review of their kit:

Yescomusa.com 500 watt 48v rear kit review
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=41170

 

[spinningmagnets]

Is your commute relatively flat? If you have hills, are their steepness levels medium or hard? Are the hills long uphills or short? (this applies to heat soaking). Many hubs can take significant heat for a short time, as long as they have a long flat cruise afterwards...to shed that heat before the next hill.

 

[classic94]

Wow guys! Great info, thanks for all the responses.
My commute is a bike path. I used to commute on my reg bike. It's mostly flat, the only parts that's not flat is when it goes under the freeway/street which I think would be minimal stress on the battery. I never thought I might need 2 batteries, I've seen kits claiming to get 30miles per charge (this is where I get overwhelmed!!).
I weigh 185lbs if that info helps. You guys gave me a lot of great info to look into.I'm going to look into all of this. Any other responses are greatly appreciated!

 

[lbz5mc12]

I had one of the yescom kits. It was the 36V 800w rear kit and on the flats at full throttle it had a top speed between 25-28 mph. With sales tax and free shipping it was less than $300.00. That would leave you with about $700.00 for a good battery pack.

 

[dogman dan]

A $1000 budget does complicate things, at $1500 easy as pie.

Save a bit of cash on the motor, either with the Yes kit, or the direct drive kit from EM3 EV. That should leave you with just enough money to get the ideal battery for a punishing daily commute. A 48v 15 ah from pingbattery.com , or a 36v 20 ah ping.

DONT, get the 1000w version from Yes. It has a 30 amps controller which will only force you to buy a more expensive battery, or get RC Lipo. For the daily grind you cant beat a pingbatttery, and a 20 amps controller.

I know, I did it for years, 30 miles a day. Perfect size to charge at work in safety, and rarely tax the battery hard.

I'm not knocking the cellman 20 ah battery. But the problem with it is more cost, and it's big and awkward to carry. The 48v 15 ah ping is perfect, and the 36v 800w yes kit will run fine on the 48v battery.

Sunthing on ebay has a good battery similar to ping, but I understand that he does not sell the 15 ah size.

 

[dnmun]

since yescomusa is there in LA then maybe you can knock $50 off the $300 and get it for $250 if you pick it up local without them shipping it.

the sun-thing28 guy did sell lotsa different sized batteries but now he only sells the 48V20Ah size for $549 delivered by DHL. but that is too big to fit inside the frame so you would have to have the pack made in 2 pieces by him or split it yourself and mount it in panniers on the back. or half in the frame and half on a rack.

go for the rear motor if you can get that for the $250 from yescomusa. assume that with a big battery like the 48V20Ah i mentioned it will supply about 1000Wh of energy and if you use 25Wh/mile then it would be able to go 40 miles before expiring. so you would try to keep the distance to less, maybe only about 30-35 before charging up again.

you really do need a wattmeter and the cycle analyst has many useful functions on top of a high voltage wattmeter function. but you can buy a cheap wattmeter for about $12. i have thread somewhere about the one on ebay. http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=48710

 

[Ian]

Consider a slow wind direct drive motor such as a 9t from cellman emv, which will get you 23/24mph at 48v. Quiet and will last long time without maintenance. It comes with matched controller, on/off switch, and throttle/cruise control and CA also. A Ping battery is a sensible investment for long term use especially if you understand its limits, Ping continues to be excellent with customer service over many years now. San Diego electric bike website is also worth looking at, Patrick there is also reputable with satisified customers. There's other good options too but these are the ones I have experience with

 

[wesnewell]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Rear-Wheel-Electric-Bicycle-Conversion-Kit-24V-36V-48V-250W-500W-700W-800W-1000W-/290754592384
Select 48V 1000W. To your door in a couple of days for $285.
10ah 12s lipo will get you ~28mph top speed with a range of 13 miles @ 25mph for ~$200.
Charger ~$100 more.
http://www.hobbypartz.com/75p-1220-charger.html?gclid=CNa3z9_N57ICFayPPAod10MAPw
I'd also recommend one of these.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Waterproof-Digital-Voltmeter-DC-15V-To-120V-Red-Led-Voltage-Digital-Panel-Meter-/170846310527
Figure another $50 for misc. stuff.

 

[Drunkskunk]

Don't get Lipo. Unless you're an electrical engineer, or have a lot of experience with RC lipo, then it's an unneeded risk. Plus Lipo isn't built for long life. There is a high fire danger, and it isn't something you could leave unattended at work to charge.

Counter intuitively, the battery is more important than the motor for an Ebike. Choosing a good battery can make up for a bad motor choice, but a bad battery choice will leave you stuck, pedaling, or possibly on fire. Ping is about the cheapest battery around that is known to still be of good quality, any cheaper and you'll be risking throwing that money away. EM3ev is better quality, and he sells motors too, so you can combine for shipping costs (not exactly cheap).

You are going to want a direct drive motor for a commute like yours. Direct drive are more efficient on a steady cruise, and more reliable with only one moving part.

 

[Tommy L]

Words of wisdom......

"Buy it right the first time"

400 or 500 towards a 700 or 800 dollar battery pack 200-400 more.

If you buy 400/500 pack and it crap, then you will spend 700/800 plus the 400/500. See the math here?

In the LiFePO4's I like Headways and A123.

All of my A123 are rock solid.

If you go with EM3ev, he uses A123's. If you are a noob, then it's nice not to have to piece it together yourself. Might be worth
a little extra for possibly less pain.

If you want to learn, then buy a Headway Pack from Jimmie D. He has battery kits that you assemble, but be forewarned, you should
have some electrical knowledge behind you! He also sells packs that are prebuilt.
LiCo from Hobby King is not for the Noob. They will discharge almost like capacitors! Catch Fire, Burn Fingers.

This is my pack I built from A123's. Each black box is 12.8v nominal and 9.2ah (4s4p) strung in series for a nice 128v nominal pack

Tommy L sends......

 

[dogman dan]

But it's 20 ah, which fits like shit in the bikes triangle. Even the lipo suggestion is better, though I don't advise it for 10 cycles per week kind of use.

If he needed 20 ah, it would be different. What he wants does not need the 1000w kit, so he can use the 800w kit, run it on 15 ah of ping lifepo4, and have 3- 4 years of never worrying, just plug er in and go to sleep. He could snip a shunt on the 1000w controller though. Then it would be 800w.

Lipo, you don't ever want to nod off while it charges, unless it's outside in the bbq grill. And it lasts about 2 years. I have lipo packs 2.5 years old that are toast, and were only used about 25 cycles. Lipo, is great stuff, but it doesn't last, and it might burn your workplace down charging it.

It's not BS, I commuted with the ping for 10,000 no worries miles over 4 years.

However, if what he really wants is to go 35 mph, then he needs mo motor, mo battery, mo money. Then he wants a clyte HT on 72v. Of lipo of course.

 

[wesnewell]

I've over 2 years of experience using lipo. I've built 4 packs using it, from my first 5ah 14s pack to my current almost a year old 24s pack. I wouldn't use anything else. I'm no electrical engineer although I've had to fix a bunch of their screw ups. I am a technical person, starting out as aircraft mechanic in the AF about 40 years ago, progressing to telecommunications and computer related fields later. None of the packs I've put together have ever caught fire, and as far as I know, none have ever even had a puffed cell. I built a 10ah 12s pack for a young mentally challenged man in Nov. of 2011 using 5000mah 20c Turnigy hardcase 4s packs to use on a 30A yescomusa controller that I shunt modded to 42A max. He didn't have a charger for the first few months so I charged it for him every time. A few times twice a day, but on average 30 times a month. I know I put about 100 cycles on it before he got his own charger and I showed him how to charge it. I have no idea how many cycles he has on it now, but it's probably quite high. BTW, it was always charged to 100%. He didn't even have as much as a volt meter on the bike. He would run it until the controller lvc (42V) would shut it off then pedal back here to charge. The whole pack only cost $150. He ended up getting a cheap 6s 50W charger that took about 8 hours to charge an empty pack. As for longevity, with a 10ah 12s 20c pack, you'll only be pulling a max of 3C any time. That means there's really no stress on the batteries rated for 20C. Now pull 3C from a 10ah ping or other 1C lifepo4 battery and see how long it last. Answer. Probably not as long as the lipo that cost way less. As for longevity, I've seen people here claim 900 cycles and still going for rc lipo. Lower sag rates, size, weight, ease of maintenance are just a few other reasons I chose rc lipo over lifepo4.

 

[lbz5mc12]

Or, and I know the rest of you probably won't approve, you could check out bmsbattery.com. I have a 36v 20a pack and a 48v 10a pack and I've had no problems with either one. He lives in L.A. which is not too far from where I live so his shipping cost should be about the same. The 36V was $390.00 with shipping and the 48V was less than $300.00 shipped. Just remember if you do go with bmsbattery, you have to choose the DHL option for shipping. Also if you go this route you'll save money that you can then use to fix up your bike. You may need a bigger crank set to match the speed of the motor so you can throw in some pedal assist or at least be able to pedal convincingly when you see a cop car. This way you can also get a good frame bag for the battery. You're going to want wider tires and you'll need a rim liner because the kits never seem to come with them. Lets not forget 1 or 2 torques arms. Also depending on the depth of your dropouts you may need to deepen them so that you can properly seat the axle which you'll need tools for.

http://www.bmsbattery.com/36v/445-36v-15ah-lithium-ion-electric-bicycle-battery-pack.html

http://www.bmsbattery.com/48v/166-48v-10ah-lithium-ion-electric-bicycle-battery-pack.html

I know the 36V link says 15ah but that was what popped up when I clicked on the 20ah pack so it should take you to the correct battery pack.

 

[cal3thousand]

OR.. you could buy a bike from me for < $1000. I'm in LA, and I have one put together that I was looking to get $850 in it's current configuration: Trek 4500 frame, Front 9C 2810 motor, cheapo 6FET Hua tong controller, Torque armed, 48V 10Ah Golden Motor LiFePO4, new Shimano integrated shifters/lever and brake cables, new Kona pedals, half-twist throttle)

For $900, I would upgrade the controller to a 12FET Infineon from ebikes.ca. (This will allow you to go up in voltage [speed] by upgrading or adding batteries in the future)

This is my secondary bike and I would like to get some cash to buy a Xtracycle Edgerunner frame.

EDIT: Of course you'd have to sell your current bike (didn't think about that at first) or move the components over. I'd be willing to discuss sale less frame too. Can you tell I really want an Edgerunner frame? Justin's got me jonesing for one.

 

[classic94]

OR.. you could buy a bike from me for < $1000. I'm in LA, and I have one put together that I was looking to get $850 in it's current configuration: Trek 4500 frame, Front 9C 2810 motor, cheapo 6FET Hua tong controller, Torque armed, 48V 10Ah Golden Motor LiFePO4, new Shimano integrated shifters/lever and brake cables, new Kona pedals, half-twist throttle)

For $900, I would upgrade the controller to a 12FET Infineon from ebikes.ca. (This will allow you to go up in voltage [speed] by upgrading or adding batteries in the future)

This is my secondary bike and I would like to get some cash to buy a Xtracycle Edgerunner frame.

EDIT: Of course you'd have to sell your current bike (didn't think about that at first) or move the components over. I'd be willing to discuss sale less frame too. Can you tell I really want an Edgerunner frame? Justin's got me jonesing for one.

That's the price point I'm looking for. How long have you had the set up and how many charges diss the battery have?
Sorry, I have no idea how good of a deal this is, I would appreciate any feedback through private message from more experienced members on this set up.
I'm kind of getting to the point where I
think I wouldn't mind spend a little more if it's going to last longer. This is going to be my every day commuter...

 

[cal3thousand]

OR.. you could buy a bike from me for < $1000. I'm in LA, and I have one put together that I was looking to get $850 in it's current configuration: Trek 4500 frame, Front 9C 2810 motor, cheapo 6FET Hua tong controller, Torque armed, 48V 10Ah Golden Motor LiFePO4, new Shimano integrated shifters/lever and brake cables, new Kona pedals, half-twist throttle)

For $900, I would upgrade the controller to a 12FET Infineon from ebikes.ca. (This will allow you to go up in voltage [speed] by upgrading or adding batteries in the future)

This is my secondary bike and I would like to get some cash to buy a Xtracycle Edgerunner frame.

EDIT: Of course you'd have to sell your current bike (didn't think about that at first) or move the components over. I'd be willing to discuss sale less frame too. Can you tell I really want an Edgerunner frame? Justin's got me jonesing for one.

That's the price point I'm looking for. How long have you had the set up and how many charges diss the battery have?
Sorry, I have no idea how good of a deal this is, I would appreciate any feedback through private message from more experienced members on this set up.
I'm kind of getting to the point where I
think I wouldn't mind spend a little more if it's going to last longer. This is going to be my every day commuter...

No need for PMs. Let the other respected members chime in here for an open discussion.

The motor is basically new. It only has < 100 miles on it.

The bike frame is used, but it is solid. Neptronix will attest to these frames for e-bikes, they are perfect candidates.

The battery is my first battery before I started playing with LiPo and I burned my geared hubbie up running too much voltage on it (the 48V LiFePO4 and 6S of LiPo ). The battery is a champ though. I only hit cutoff on the BMS 2 times and that was early on before I understood everything. It continues to perform well. I can't detect any difference in the capacity. 10Ah is enough to get me to work and most of the way back on a 13 mile ride (each-way) at legal speeds. I'd say easily 20 miles. But I always charged it at work and home (I bought 2 chargers for this) to make sure I only used about 60% of the capacity each way to keep it happy and last longer. I'd say you could easily commute everyday for the next 2 years+ without issue if you did the same and charged at work. I put a new locking mechanism on there that was sent to me by Golden Motor on warranty since the one that came on it started to have intermittent connection issues. The new one they sent is beefier and I added solder to make sure the connections were reliable.

I've put about 1800 miles on the battery before my other bike motor failed. That's about 70 commutes with a half charge (1/2 a cycle) 2 times each commute. I would say 150 partial charges. Being conservative, you could round up and say I put 200 (not full) cycles on it. Golden Motor is claiming 2000+ full cycles before hitting 80% original capacity. Lots of life left in the cells.

I'm moving to LiPo (all of my stuff), hence the sale of the LiFePO4. In writing this, I also remembered that I have the extra charger at work.

If you don't purchase my bike, I would still like members to chime in on the apparent value of my offering. I'm going to put it on CL soon if not sold on the 'sphere. That way you can get a better idea of what values are people putting on things.


Should mention that I NEVER took the battery draw over 20A (2C). So it has lived well within it's 3C continuous discharge rating. (helps with longevity)

 

[dogman dan]

I'll chime in that that is a killer deal on one of my favorite motors. Already mounted on a good bike. What's not to love there? Price is quite fair, even if the motor had thousands of miles on it.

The 2810 is a slow motor, so you need 48v or more for it. It's a bit pokey at 20 mph when you run one at 48v, but it will run VERY efficient compared to the same model motor with a faster speed winding. It' will climb grades up to 14% with ease, and even more if you upgrade to 72v, At 72v it will hit a respectable 30 mph and climb a wall.

You can't get one easy now, so go for it. Because of the slow motor, it's really ideal for urban riding. Lots of starts and stops murders the efficiency of faster windings. Later if you wish for faster, a 72v controller is not so costly. You could do that when you are replacing the battery anyway, and make the jump to RC lipo then.

 

[Tommy L]

I have the 9C2810 and really enjoy the efficiency.

I've run it all the way to 144v HOC (128v nominal)

Currently, 84v HOC (76.8v nominal) with a Grin C7225 controller for 33mph.

It will draw some watts off the line for only a few seconds. And as the wheel spins up, the load reduces quickly.


Tommy L sends....

 

[dogman dan]

If it was a rear for sale, I'd be sending a PM wanting to buy just the motor. I only have one in my garage.

Nothing wrong with the front hub 2810 though, I have one of those too.