Painting An X5 Hub Motor

[The Mighty Volt]

Hi there, as part of my ongoing build I will be painting an X5, in this case an X5304.

The Hub, with which most of you are familiar with, was supplied by Maxwell65, and was the newer version of the old version, if you see what I mean. By this, I mean it was the version before Andersons were introduced a standard, but still had the new design without the old star/dartboard pattern on the outside.

At the risk of sounding dogmatic and obstinate {like a certain Jester} I have already made my mind up. The colour is going to be brilliant white, and will be glossed/laquered by a guy who knows what he is doing, that is to say, not me.

A few moments ago, whilst getting ready to test a small surface area of the hub with some Hammerite, I rubbed the hub with a small wire brush and observed the following:

Any ideas? Should I leave this stuff on or take it off? Trust me, it comes off easy as you like.....right now I feel like sanding the entire thing down to the bare bone, cleaning it off, priming it, and using radiator paint or some of this stuff:

Just a bit I smeared on for effect to give me an idea of how it might pan out.

Ideas, opinion, comment etc are gratefully received, as ever.

 

[AussieJester]

((Ypedal Edit Treatment... bunch of steamy doodoo removed )

...OK... heres what to do...piss that paint off and get yourself some high temp paint, any automotive store will sell it, its used on motor's extractors it comes in a range of colours white included, standard paint will likely peel when your x5 gets hot...You should also rub the hub down with sandpaper something around 800 grit wet and dry is what i use and have had good results with, get a nice surface for the paint to 'bite' to .... There...happy now?

KiM

 

[The Mighty Volt]

Cheers Pedal.

 

[lifepo4ever]

lol 800 grit if you use this grit it will take 2 day to sand it, use 400 instead , buy mag wheel car can paint it can resist to 500 degrees and will fill all the scratch and is very resistant

 

[AussieJester]

lol 800 grit if you use this grit it will take 2 day to sand it, use 400 instead

Certainly could use 400 grit if you want a scratchy finish when you spray the paint, unless etch primer and primer filler can be used but i am unaware if these paints can withstand the heat any ideas there? FYI:- I offered my opinion only on how i would tackle the job, i have prepped and painted alot of things over the years and the 800 grit has worked well on every occasion hence my suggestion for using it, i don't pretend to be an expert never said i was, comments/suggestions were asked for i gave mine .

Best of luck getting it painted anywayz The Mighty Volt

KiM

 

[dogman dan]

For sure strip it. But I'm not so sure if the high temp paint is strictly needed. Be willing to bet most factory painted hubmotors use nothing expensive. The motor won't be glowing red. Proper primer first, as always.

But Jesters suggestion of high temp paint is a very good one anyway. If nothing else, it will be a much higher quality paint that lasts longer. So some engine block paint is a good choice. Laquer will just melt, so you definitely want some kind of enamel.

 

[Jeremy Harris]

If you want the paint to bond well to the raw alloy, then it's a good idea to try and prep/prime the surface to take into account the fact that paint doesn't bond well to alloy without some special treatment.

There are a couple of commercial ways to prep the alloy surface that work well, either Alodine the clean metal surface (Google it, it's a alloy surface treatment that's fairly easy to use by hand) or use an etch primer. Etch primer is probably your best bet, most automotive refinishers will be familiar with it as a fair few cars (and Landrovers) have aluminium body panels that need etch priming prior to paint.

There is a cheapskate way of prepping alloy for paint, which uses old fashioned household scouring powder (Vim?) and a Scotchbrite pad. The scouring powder is mildly abrasive and has bleaching agents that create a finely etched surface on the alloy, allowing a reasonable paint bond without using etc primer.

I don't think you need anything fancy in terms of paint - think how hot a car can get parked in the sun; is your motor going to run hotter than that? Standard automotive paint should be fine for any safe temperature that the motor case is going to get up to, if it's going to run hotter than the temperature standard paint will take then the windings, Hall sensors and magnets are probably going to toast.

Jeremy

 

[Ypedal]

Very inconsistent paint thickness but crystalyte uses that glittery silver paint and it's usually pretty thick, the suggestion of using 400 grit is good, start there to take the bulk off, then follow up with the 800.. :wink: or you will fill up sheets and sheets of 800 and have to do a 2nd trip to the store hehe..

Or.. just wipe down the surface of the whole thing with solvent ( oil, grease and fingerprints are the cause of most failed paint jobs ) and spray over top the existing paint..

I stripped the norco's Clyte 409 down to aluminum ( hours of work ) , used high temp spray can primer, 5 coats of dupli-color automotive paint, and a few coats of clear and it's held up to 2+ years of treatment, barely a scratch on it..

the Chopper i just cleaned and painted , primer, paint, clear, right on top of the existing paint, and it has held up perfectly, not sure why but it worked out.. alot less work !lol..

And yeah, no worries about temps, the motor will never get that hot, unless you pull a Methods and push 100v 120 amps with the brakes on going up hill for extended periods of time.

 

[AussieJester]

And yeah, no worries about temps, the motor will never get that hot, unless you pull a Methods and push 100v 120 amps with the brakes on going up hill for extended periods of time.

This was my concern i wasn't sure what sort of setup The Mighty Volt was setting up mild or wild so to speak LoL... Good to know that they don't get too hot for a 'standard' type paint, oh and yes, etch primer is a must on ali IMHO.

KiM

 

[Ypedal]

oh, and i assume you know this, but tape up the freewheel threads carefully if this is a rear motor, otherwise you will likely get the freewheel on, but it will never come off again..

 

[The Mighty Volt]

lol 800 grit if you use this grit it will take 2 day to sand it, use 400 instead

Certainly could use 400 grit if you want a scratchy finish when you spray the paint, unless etch primer and primer filler can be used but i am unaware if these paints can withstand the heat any ideas there? FYI:- I offered my opinion only on how i would tackle the job, i have prepped and painted alot of things over the years and the 800 grit has worked well on every occasion hence my suggestion for using it, i don't pretend to be an expert never said i was, comments/suggestions were asked for i gave mine .

Best of luck getting it painted anywayz The Mighty Volt

KiM

Thanks AussieJester. One Idea I did have was to use radiator paint.....which can withstand pretty high temps. What I will do is get two samples of sand-paper, one is 800, the other is 400, try a bit on a very small sample of the motor, and see how it works out.

Does anyone have any idea why the existing coating is coming off so damned easy? Bloody cheap finish for such an expensive motor.

 

[The Mighty Volt]

If you want the paint to bond well to the raw alloy, then it's a good idea to try and prep/prime the surface to take into account the fact that paint doesn't bond well to alloy without some special treatment.

There are a couple of commercial ways to prep the alloy surface that work well, either Alodine the clean metal surface (Google it, it's a alloy surface treatment that's fairly easy to use by hand) or use an etch primer. Etch primer is probably your best bet, most automotive refinishers will be familiar with it as a fair few cars (and Landrovers) have aluminium body panels that need etch priming prior to paint.

There is a cheapskate way of prepping alloy for paint, which uses old fashioned household scouring powder (Vim?) and a Scotchbrite pad. The scouring powder is mildly abrasive and has bleaching agents that create a finely etched surface on the alloy, allowing a reasonable paint bond without using etc primer.

I don't think you need anything fancy in terms of paint - think how hot a car can get parked in the sun; is your motor going to run hotter than that? Standard automotive paint should be fine for any safe temperature that the motor case is going to get up to, if it's going to run hotter than the temperature standard paint will take then the windings, Hall sensors and magnets are probably going to toast.

Jeremy

Thanks for that Jeremy. I figured if things got so hot that the paint would be the last thing to go anyways.

I definitely feel that a primer is necessary- I never thought I could get away without one and what I am reading all over here is that I won't!!!

I remember DocBass saying something about painting the inside of the hub a different colour to the outside...I don't want to misquote the man but there seemed to be some general theory that white paint better reflected external sources of heat {the sun for instance} but that black paint on the inside better absorbed the heat from the motor and conducted it away from the more sensitive parts of the motor.

It's all just theory of course.

The reason this hub is getting painted is that, apart from the fact that I just can't stop messing, it is designed to fit in with the colour of the frame. I love the old black-and-white contrast that the Japanese made so popular in the 1980's on the Corrolla Twin-Cam {AE-86} but clashing hub motor/frame is just asking to be noticed. By all the wrong sorts of people {tea leaves etc}

 

[The Mighty Volt]

oh, and i assume you know this, but tape up the freewheel threads carefully if this is a rear motor, otherwise you will likely get the freewheel on, but it will never come off again..

Yep. The few photos I have seen of an X5 being painted involve LiBERAL use of newspaper, wrapped around different parts of the axle...

 

[AussieJester]

lol 800 grit if you use this grit it will take 2 day to sand it, use 400 instead

Certainly could use 400 grit if you want a scratchy finish when you spray the paint, unless etch primer and primer filler can be used but i am unaware if these paints can withstand the heat any ideas there? FYI:- I offered my opinion only on how i would tackle the job, i have prepped and painted alot of things over the years and the 800 grit has worked well on every occasion hence my suggestion for using it, i don't pretend to be an expert never said i was, comments/suggestions were asked for i gave mine .

Best of luck getting it painted anywayz The Mighty Volt

KiM

Thanks AussieJester. One Idea I did have was to use radiator paint.....which can withstand pretty high temps. What I will do is get two samples of sand-paper, one is 800, the other is 400, try a bit on a very small sample of the motor, and see how it works out.

Does anyone have any idea why the existing coating is coming off so damned easy? Bloody cheap finish for such an expensive motor.

My guess would be a combination of poor prep before paint if any at all, and cheap paint. Its a bonus for you really since your repainting it :lol: you should have
it cleaned off in a jiffy OH..i just thought, you could also use paint stripper too, its messy stinkin' stuff though but gets the job done then you just hose off the peeling paint...

KiM

 

[The Mighty Volt]

For sure strip it. But I'm not so sure if the high temp paint is strictly needed. Be willing to bet most factory painted hubmotors use nothing expensive. The motor won't be glowing red. Proper primer first, as always.

But Jesters suggestion of high temp paint is a very good one anyway. If nothing else, it will be a much higher quality paint that lasts longer. So some engine block paint is a good choice. Laquer will just melt, so you definitely want some kind of enamel.

Damn. I forgot about the Laquer. I've seen it used so much in automotive and bike frame scenes that I forgot to figure on the heat. Thanks.

The paint I was looking at initially was radiator paint. It will stick handily to steels but I guess it needs a primer, of course, for the alloy. Radiator heat is pretty much constant and as Jeremy has pointed out, if you can't touch the hub for heat, then there is a good chance that paint-peels are the very least of your worries. :?

 

[The Mighty Volt]

My guess would be a combination of poor prep before paint if any at all, and cheap paint. Its a bonus for you really since your repainting it :lol: you should have
it cleaned off in a jiffy OH..i just thought, you could also use paint stripper too, its messy stinkin' stuff though but gets the job done then you just hose off the peeling paint...

KiM

Well I guess they have to maintain their margins some way. I was shocked about how easy it came off. It's like a powder that they mixed and just dabbed on.

A lot of the older motors I see that were not-repainted have a shiny-patchy finish on them now. Not good. And it catches the eye too. Which is even worse.

 

[AussieJester]

For sure strip it. But I'm not so sure if the high temp paint is strictly needed. Be willing to bet most factory painted hubmotors use nothing expensive. The motor won't be glowing red. Proper primer first, as always.

But Jesters suggestion of high temp paint is a very good one anyway. If nothing else, it will be a much higher quality paint that lasts longer. So some engine block paint is a good choice. Laquer will just melt, so you definitely want some kind of enamel.

Damn. I forgot about the Laquer. I've seen it used so much in automotive and bike frame scenes that I forgot to figure on the heat. Thanks.

The paint I was looking at initially was radiator paint. It will stick handily to steels but I guess it needs a primer, of course, for the alloy. Radiator heat is pretty much constant and as Jeremy has pointed out, if you can't touch the hub for heat, then there is a good chance that paint-peels are the very least of your worries. :?

One last thing...Wax and Grease remover, give it a good once over and then wipe it down with a tack cloth to remove any
fluff from the rag you used to wipe the hub down etc etc... if you have some rubber gloves use them when handling the hub so the
"grease" etc..on your fingers doesn't get onto the hub after you have cleaned it thoroughly with the Wax and Grease remover...


KiM

 

[The Mighty Volt]

A Chamois? More bloody expense!

 

[Drunkskunk]

I did my Clyte a few years ago. Unlaced and with the bolts removed from the side cover, I put it in an old frame, and turned it on, then held a wire brush against it, then some 100 grit sandpaper. Finaly I let it spin against some 200 grit. I also washed it down with some acitone just before I painted it. To paint it I let it turn at about 60rpm and sprayed it with black Hammerite, like 3 or 4 coats. that stuff covers any scratch marks 200 grit left. then hit it with black laquor for a top coat. The magnets will melt before the paint will. its looked good for a couple years like this.

 

[AussieJester]

A Chamois? More bloody expense!

HAHA its cheap, and no not a chamois, they are called 'tack cloth' they are like a dollar from auto motive shops
you don't have to buy them in a box as per shown on that website, well, i haven't had to in the Auto shops here. Remember, the more preparation you put into this
the better the final result, if you want it looking the shizz, put a lil time into and it will pay off in the end... The cleaner you can get the surface the better the paint is going to stick too.

That Hammerite is pretty good stuff i painted my DIY projector with it in silver, I wonder how they make the paint so it gives the hammertone finish its a bit trippy when you first use it, it does cover scratches well for sure, unlike 'normal' lacquer paints.

KiM

 

[The Mighty Volt]

I did my Clyte a few years ago. Unlaced and with the bolts removed from the side cover, I put it in an old frame, and turned it on, then held a wire brush against it, then some 100 grit sandpaper. Finaly I let it spin against some 200 grit. I also washed it down with some acitone just before I painted it. To paint it I let it turn at about 60rpm and sprayed it with black Hammerite, like 3 or 4 coats. that stuff covers any scratch marks 200 grit left. then hit it with black laquor for a top coat. The magnets will melt before the paint will. its looked good for a couple years like this.

So you sprayed the motor intact, you never took the plates off the side, were you not worried about paint getting places?

Good idea on the spinning motion doing all the work. I happen to have a small 72v 1.1Ah sub-pack handy that will do the trick.

Cheers.

 

[The Mighty Volt]

A Chamois? More bloody expense!

HAHA its cheap, and no not a chamois, they are called 'tack cloth' they are like a dollar from auto motive shops
you don't have to buy them in a box as per shown on that website, well, i haven't had to in the Auto shops here. Remember, the more preparation you put into this
the better the final result, if you want it looking the shizz, put a lil time into and it will pay off in the end... The cleaner you can get the surface the better the paint is going to stick too.

KiM

Thanks for the link......I think I will combine your process with drunkskunks to get the perfect finish.

I was thinking about pulling the motor from it's case but 'Skunk reckons that might not even be necessary.

I can see this getting done now.

 

[Drunkskunk]

So you sprayed the motor intact, you never took the plates off the side, were you not worried about paint getting places?

I taped up where I didn't want the paint. But with it spinning, the paint wasn't going to run inside. it also gave it a more consistant coat.

 

[The Mighty Volt]

So you sprayed the motor intact, you never took the plates off the side, were you not worried about paint getting places?

I taped up where I didn't want the paint. But with it spinning, the paint wasn't going to run inside. it also gave it a more consistant coat.

Ha ha good stuff....I like that, the centrifugal force keeps the paint out?

 

[lifepo4ever]

like ypedal say try the duplicolor mag wheel can paint gun metal its very strong paint and temp resistant and the finish is nice and durable , just clean the hub with some
kitchen soap if you don't want to spend 25$ for a pre cleaner 900 bottle