Phaserunner - Tips on sensorless tuning?

[Sunder]

Hi All,

So a couple weeks ago, shortly after the heavy rain in Sydney, my Phaserunner started acting up. You know that comment on thr Phaserunner page along the lines of "It's fully potted and waterproof. The connectors, not so much". Well, I found out the hard way it's true. The Phaserunner started reporting phase errors, so I looked at the JST connectors, and they are indeed corroded.

So I replaced the connectors and it all seems fine. But while I was there, I saw a feature that said "Sensored start, sensorless run" along with "fall back to sensorless". I thought that sounded like good insurance should this happen again, so I turned them on and went for a test ride both with the halls connected and not connected.

This morning was my first real ride. Something odd is happening.

1. If I start from a standing start, perfectly smooth, pulls hard. I'm certain it's using the sensors.

2. If I do a rolling start, if I roll on the throttle gently, no problem at all. I might feel one very short and light "cogging", but that's it. Keeps on going. I think it's sensorless, but the gentle thottle lets it work properly.

3. If I am doing a rolling start and just twist the throttle normally, or if I am cruising at any speed and roll the throttle gently, it will cog a couple times, then the phase runner will shut down and stay down, until I disconnect power.

The manual says I have to increase PLL bandwidth and current regulator bandwidth, but mine from auto tune is already much higher than default. (Default is 1000 rads and 1 rad, mine is like 2000 and 152 rads?)

My autostart spinup time also jumps. It goes from 200ms to 866, and if I try to force values in between, then it just jumps to 866 when I save it.

I can probably just disable sensorless now I have replaced the connectors and protected them better from water ingress. But I would like this to work as a fall back if I can.

Any ideas where I should start? My motor is a Q100H, so a very high eRPM if that helps.

 

[flat tire]

My only tip is to contact ASI support. The ASI controllers don't do that great with high rpm low inductance motors especially when they have a freewheel (not direct drive).

If your controller was working fine before the damage, return to previous settings and make sure your connectors are clean and protected. Waterproof connectors are not a new thing, they are a mature technology and you can put them on YOUR ebike. Google is your friend "waterproof connectors" or "weatherproof connectors".

 

[Sunder]

Thanks. Not quite the answer I was looking for, but confirms my course of action.

There has never been a problem with sensored running, and it is my short term solution to just get it back on the road. I have also relocated the connectors to be less exposed to water.

But as I said, if I can get sensorless working, not only is it a fall back, but I've read that on FOC controllers with high eRPM motors, it can be more efficient, as Back EMF is more accurate than hall signals which can be delayed.

 

[Sunder]

Did a bit more searching, and all I found my old threads from 2-3 years ago tearing my hair out getting sensorless working, and some other people saying don't bother... It seems nothing has changed in a few years. A pity. Oh well.

So, I'm giving up. I'll run fully sensored.

 

[Oli.Hall]

Hi Sunder,

I am in the middle of a build and I was wondering if you would be willing to share your Phaserunner settings which you run on your Q100H please?

I am curious to know what phase amps you are running and whether you have ever had issues with gear life?
I would like to ask if you had to alter any of the Current regulator or PLL parameters to achieve smooth running?
Also, when you moved to ATF cooling did you put in axle seals at all?

I am using internal temperature monitoring with thermal rollback so maximum wattage is not such an issue, I am more interested in what is the maximum current/torque that can be used before either gear issues are seen or the stator reaches saturation. Any insight you can give based on your experiences would be very welcome!

Many thanks,
Oli.