Phaserunner Vs. 40A Grinfineon (10T Gmac)

[Bush mechanic]

Hey everyone, I know this has been written about but there seems to be a lot of conflicting information and I just can't get a clear picture of whether this is a yes or a no...

Can the Phaserunner controller from Grin provide similar performance to a 40A 12-Fet controller such as the Grinfineon if it is effectively cooled and the parameters adjusted?

I've just ordered a Gmac with the 40A Grinfineon but apparently the Grinfineon can't handle the high eRPM, so they have suggested the Phaserunner. I'd pay the price if I thought I could milk similar performance but from what I can see it would actually provide less power which would taper off further as it heats (understandable being only 6-Fet).

My rig is a Yuba Mundo used to haul myself and two kids at low speed and largely flat ground, but with a nasty climb of about half a mile on a grade that varies between 10-20% in places. Currently running an old Crystalyte 408 in a 26" rim on a 30A Em3ev controller @52v.

Like I said I know its been written about but I cant get my head around it. Any suggestions appreciated!

 

[Hawaiianr808]

Following

 

[Triketech]

My original driver was an 18 FET Infineon Trap wave with a MAC 10T.

Peak Battery Amps at 40A on either one. Did several sustained climbs at full throttle (500+ foot rises). Phaserunner Phase Current limit is 90A don't know about the Infineon was on Phase Current.

Differences:
Infineon had full power from standstill. Snap the throttle and the tire spins 1/2 turn on shiny concrete (trike), where the Phaserunner comes on more gently - some of that is configurable but mine is optimized for early cutover from Halls to Field Oriented Control.

Phaserunner is nearly silent below 100 watts and at full chat its about as loud as the Infineon at 20% power; a good ear can actually hear the differences in the two waveforms.

The Infineon has a case heatsink and barely got warm to touch. The Phaserunner heatsink is adequate at 35A without an external heatsink, maybe 40. Mine was mounted to a steel plate that gets good airflow, probably good to 50A until the battery dies. After about a 10 minute pull up 8% average grade the base of the Phaserunner was about 130° F while the ambient was 102° at the time. (gets hot in the desert).

Infineon

Phaserunner

 

[ZeroEm]

Don't remember where this was learned, (hope my mind did not make it up) phase amps is 120a. The Phaserunner is just a different class of controller. Have two 40a Grinfineon and have been happy with them. Still would consider a Phaserunner as an upgrade to them. You can get a little more take off torque with the 40a Grinfineon but it's is still limited to 40a unlike the Phaserunner.

If found the phase amps for the Grinfineon will post it.

 

[SniperGaulois]

Perhaps the Gmac will burn fast on a 40A Grinfineon because it's too overrated. A 1 kilowatt motor on a 1.5 kilowatt controller going uphill will get hot after 5 minutes of tarmac mountain climbing and 1 minute of rocky path climbing.

The grinfineon's are very efficient and quality signals, and phaserunner is awesome, the motor will only use 1kw of those controllers. research other's experience with the gmac thermal efficiency.

 

[ZeroEm]

Can get over 3 kw from my 40A Grinfineon @ 72V which is 84V hot off the charger. Most of my riding is between 74V to 82V. Keep it limited to 2 kw with plenty of torque.

 

[Triketech]

I'd expect the Gmac to burn out pretty fast on a 40A Grinfineon because it's too powerful. A 1 kilowatt motor on a 1.5 kilowatt controller going uphill will get hot after 5 minutes of tarmac mountain climbing and 1 minute of rocky path climbing.

The grinfineon's are very efficient and quality signals, and phaserunner is awesome, the motor will only use 1kw of those controllers. research other's experience with the gmac thermal efficiency.

It's also dependent on the efficiency zone of operation as well.

Infineon Trap Wave at 40 Battery Amps from a standstill my Mac could spin the wheel on launch with 90 Lbs weight on it, guessing in the range of 80-90 ft-lbs torque. That gets into accelerated gear wear territory. Nylon gears don't last long when overstressed. On a Trap Wave it often pays off to synchronize the hall timing where software allows.

On extended up hill climbs at 20+ MPH (throttle only, 5-11% grades) I could take 40A from the battery all day long in the triple digit desert heat. On the flip side at 40A under a locked rotor and its a matter of minutes.

The Phaserunner has a ramp delay typical of an FOC. Instead of delivering bulk PCM shots its sending, measuring and calculating the next pulses to form a sine wave with much tighter PCM control. 30 years ago in the stepper world we considered that as "Microstepping". However to build a sine wave that can deliver the same power as a trap wave that means starting and ending power pulses will be under 40A while the mid section is over 40A, hence the 90A Phase rating. The FET's don't care about these very brief high excesses of current.

Its not just the windings to consider with hotrodding a MAC. In that event an FOC becomes a better option. Not sure if Grinfineon is an FOC, if so than it shouldn't be that different from the Phaserunner on power settings.