Ping 2.0 Reports
- Thread starter pwbset
- Start date
A 48V pack will have 16 cell groups. How many cells in a 20ah pack depends on if you have the 5ah cells or the 4ah cells.monster said:
The first time I had a problem with the my pack, the entire cell group went bad and measured 0v.
My second problem was a balance problem, and in that case, only one cell in the group was bad. So the other cells in the group could be saved.
AussieJester
1 TW
That doesnt sound right for a V2 Ping they have around 80 cells in them... :-S
ZapPat
10 kW
There are 16 cells in Ping's packs, since the positive wire is also used for the BMS, making 17 wires, thus 16 cells.
With a V2 pack that uses 4Ah cells, there will be 16 X 5 cells, so yes, 80 cells in all.
I am quite sure any prismatic-based batteries and cells use multiple small cell "pouches" just as Ping does, since I doubt that the pouches can be made any thicker than they are. Surface area could be bigger to cut down on cell count, but probably this wouldn't be practical. I'm sure if you open up a TS cell you will find multiple stacked pouch-type prismatic cells too, or probably any other companie's square "cells" for that matter. Mind you, I don't have a cell collection (yet), so I'm saying this from theory and observation and so I might be wrong.
Pat
With a V2 pack that uses 4Ah cells, there will be 16 X 5 cells, so yes, 80 cells in all.
I am quite sure any prismatic-based batteries and cells use multiple small cell "pouches" just as Ping does, since I doubt that the pouches can be made any thicker than they are. Surface area could be bigger to cut down on cell count, but probably this wouldn't be practical. I'm sure if you open up a TS cell you will find multiple stacked pouch-type prismatic cells too, or probably any other companie's square "cells" for that matter. Mind you, I don't have a cell collection (yet), so I'm saying this from theory and observation and so I might be wrong.
Pat
dogman dan
1 PW
If I understand the terminology right, a ping 48v would have 16 cell groups, and each cell group in a v2 would have 5 parallel cells in a 20 ah pack. So 16s 5p. Or 5p 16s, if I have is backwards. If a cell in the parallel group goes bad, it can drag down the whole group if you don't catch it in time. Some posters refer to a cell group as cell so confusion can occur. When I opened up my 36v v1 ping to see the top, I could clearly see 12 cell groups.
Though I also haven't cut one open, or recall seeing one opened, I expect that inside a plastic case battery you would find paralell groups of cells, maybe only two per case, but maybe as many as 4 or 5. Looking at manufacturers offerings in pouch cells, and the dimensions and ah size of plastic case cells, you should be able to dope out how many pouches are in each case.
Though I also haven't cut one open, or recall seeing one opened, I expect that inside a plastic case battery you would find paralell groups of cells, maybe only two per case, but maybe as many as 4 or 5. Looking at manufacturers offerings in pouch cells, and the dimensions and ah size of plastic case cells, you should be able to dope out how many pouches are in each case.
I stand corrected (thanks) as I didn't realize that the red wire was indeed the 17th wire.
I have the pack charging now and the voltage across red-black is 60.1V, which is equivalent to 3.75V per cell.
Checking each cell individually after about 6 hours charge, most are exactly 3.75V indeed but 2 are still at 3.70V and some are slightly above.
I just purchased the FMA Direct Cellpro 10S charger (http://www.fmadirect.com/new_applications/10s_charger.htm) and will make some connector adapters to work with it. It will not charge the pack in a single pass as it is limited to 10S, so I will divide it in 2 x 8s and charge the sections one after another.
I have the pack charging now and the voltage across red-black is 60.1V, which is equivalent to 3.75V per cell.
Checking each cell individually after about 6 hours charge, most are exactly 3.75V indeed but 2 are still at 3.70V and some are slightly above.
I just purchased the FMA Direct Cellpro 10S charger (http://www.fmadirect.com/new_applications/10s_charger.htm) and will make some connector adapters to work with it. It will not charge the pack in a single pass as it is limited to 10S, so I will divide it in 2 x 8s and charge the sections one after another.
dogman dan
1 PW
It takes at least a half dozen charge cycles to fully balance a new ping. Don't panic about some imbalance untill it has been run through a few 50% discharges. I'd go easy on 100% discharges untill about half a dozen cycles. Mine settled down around cycle 12 and hasn't been out of balance since, 2000 miles ago.
SamSpeed
1 W
Ping is here!
I finally got mine last week -- 36v 20. Bought it in December but he delayed shipping until after the holidays. Fine with me, we were all snowed in. So far, it's a big improvement over the tired old worn-out SLA. I gotta appreciate his communication, quite the gentleman. He tracked the shipping and wrote me an email when he saw I'd received it.
Anyway here's a question for the group. I see that most everyone pays attention to individual cell group voltages to monitor balance -- sounds like a good idea. But the BMS and wiring is all secure and tucked away. I'd have to open up something to get to the connectors. What is the cleanest way to get access, to get my probes in there?
I finally got mine last week -- 36v 20. Bought it in December but he delayed shipping until after the holidays. Fine with me, we were all snowed in. So far, it's a big improvement over the tired old worn-out SLA. I gotta appreciate his communication, quite the gentleman. He tracked the shipping and wrote me an email when he saw I'd received it.
Anyway here's a question for the group. I see that most everyone pays attention to individual cell group voltages to monitor balance -- sounds like a good idea. But the BMS and wiring is all secure and tucked away. I'd have to open up something to get to the connectors. What is the cleanest way to get access, to get my probes in there?
I removed the duct tape holding the BMS in place, then with a X-acto (and being VERY carefull to avoid contact with anything on the board), I removed the heat shrink around the BMS to get access to the connector and resistors. I also have some spare heat shrink that I will use to re-cover the BMS, as you don't want to leave it open to short-circuit.
snowranger
10 kW
Be careful probing around the bms. A careless slip can easily short something. Don't ask how I know.
I'd get a watts-up meter or similar to develp a feel for things. With my 48 volt battery, I know everything is probably okay as long as the battery condition (voltage of the charger, running voltage, voltage sag) is consistent from day to day, and the expected range is close.
I'd get a watts-up meter or similar to develp a feel for things. With my 48 volt battery, I know everything is probably okay as long as the battery condition (voltage of the charger, running voltage, voltage sag) is consistent from day to day, and the expected range is close.
dogman dan
1 PW
When you ride certain route a lot, you notice something wrong right away. All I need is my speedometer to know how I'm doing. By the end of my ride of 15 miles, I can tell if the battery is getting weak by the speed as I pass certain landmarks. Except for when I had a problem with a charger, the only reason for a weak pack I have had is riding off without a full charge.
dnmun
1 PW
3.75V is totally charged,stop charging.
you can go as low as 2.1V/cell. most of these factory BMS have 2.5V cutoff i think.
you can go as low as 2.1V/cell. most of these factory BMS have 2.5V cutoff i think.
monster said:
Please don't make the same mistake I did. I was doing a 50 mile range test with my 48v20ah Ping pack and got an LVC at 40 miles. Usually I get 45-46 miles range and wanted to try for 50 by pedaling a bit more energetically. Anyway I reset the BMS to get it going again and proceeded on. I popped the LVC another 4 times over the next two miles. From there I pedalled the rest of the way home. After that I recharged the battery and went about life as usual. After that my max range dropped to 30 miles.
By pushing the LVC several times I deeply discharged one cell group. That one group would charge no higher than 3.34 volts, while the rest would charge to 3.60 volts. Another factor making the problem worse was my charger was only putting out 57.5 volts when it should have been 61 volts. It took a VERY long time, 8 days on constant charge with multiple shallow discharge/charge cycles, for my pack to get back into balance. Ping has since sent me a new charger and the pack is like new again.
If you have to push your battery to the end, don't push it past the first LVC, pedal home.
Regards, Bill
GGoodrum
1 MW
Since you are a vendor, I think it is more appropriate for you to do your "sales" pitch in a separate thread, probably in the Sales section.
FWIW, Ping has a long history here of providing a decent product at a very good price, but what has really endeared him to many here is the outstanding customer support he has provided. This is way beyond honoring warranties. He has joined this forum, participates to the level his language skills allow, responds to emails, replaces cells and BMS boards that many times failed due misuse.
-- Gary
FWIW, Ping has a long history here of providing a decent product at a very good price, but what has really endeared him to many here is the outstanding customer support he has provided. This is way beyond honoring warranties. He has joined this forum, participates to the level his language skills allow, responds to emails, replaces cells and BMS boards that many times failed due misuse.
-- Gary
I have a Ping battery of 36V and 15Ah, I am especially satisfied some since I replaced the BMS Signalab by the BMS of Tppacks, (by Goodrum and Fechter) the set perfectly functions, cells are perfectly balanced, in end of load the LEDs ignite all, in the 10 minutes, what proves that the 12 cells are correct.
Now, remain to know how much of time it is going to continue to function correctly, but I am persuaded that it will function longer with the BMS of Tppacks, because balancing is more serious than with the Signalab.
On the other hand, me the overcharge not with my bicycle of 250W NC, I don't pass the 1.2C on average and I don't descend below 34V (2.8V by cells).
Now, remain to know how much of time it is going to continue to function correctly, but I am persuaded that it will function longer with the BMS of Tppacks, because balancing is more serious than with the Signalab.
On the other hand, me the overcharge not with my bicycle of 250W NC, I don't pass the 1.2C on average and I don't descend below 34V (2.8V by cells).
elevendor said:
No offense intended, but I've been making my living developing websites since Mosaic 1.0 was the only browser game in town and I can assure you that alexa.com is really not all it's marketing hype cracks it up to be.
biohazardman
100 kW
alexa is spyware last I heard.
With all due resepect, elevendor, it is not ethically correct to present your product the way you did it and where you did it. Start your own thread and stop referencing competitors in your ad. Leave negative advertising to politics, please. Otherwise you only do disservice to yourself, honestly.
www.recumbents.com
10 kW
I purchased a Ping 2.0 split 48V/20Ah battery and it arrived at the end of February. Recently I completed the e-bike build and the weather improved enough to commute to work on it. The bike and battery performed fine for the 14 mile round trip. When I got home I hooked up the charger, and the light stayed green. Hmm.
After some troubleshooting and back and for with e-mails to Ping, it was determined that the BMS was bad.
He is sending a new one, but wants me to send the old one back to China. I'm thinking I should keep the old one to fix and offer him money for it. Any suggestions?
-Warren.
http://www.recumbents.com/home.asp?URL=wisil/e-bent/zcommuter.htm
After some troubleshooting and back and for with e-mails to Ping, it was determined that the BMS was bad.
He is sending a new one, but wants me to send the old one back to China. I'm thinking I should keep the old one to fix and offer him money for it. Any suggestions?-Warren.
http://www.recumbents.com/home.asp?URL=wisil/e-bent/zcommuter.htm
snowranger
10 kW
That's what I did for a charger, and now I have the formerly faulty one as a spare. Since it is busted, offer what you think it is worth to you.
julesa
10 kW
- Joined
- Jun 23, 2008
- Messages
- 950
You sure link to your website a lot for someone who isn't doing any promoting.elevendor said:
Mentioning vendors is not a problem provided you are contributing something to the discussion besides just a sales pitch. Especially if you're warning others about a problem vendor that you have personally had a bad experience with.elevendor said:
Now, if your name was maligned UNFAIRLY then I think you have a right to complain. But it's certainly possible to complain about a particular incident without devoting pages and pages to advertising your own web site, and questioning the reliability of a third party vendor who you admit that you don't know anything about. You didn't even tell your side of the story, not that I'm interested in hearing it at this point. It sounds to me like you gave somebody bad customer service, and now you're unhappy that your own dishonorable behavior is coming around to bite you.
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