Risky Rob
Established
Right
1) Regulations are your friend. They are meant only to assist you.
2) Never hesitate to transfer your wealth to the government, so they can regulate you.
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police e-bike crackdown
- Thread starter raylo32
- Start date
1) Regulations are your friend. They are meant only to assist you.
2) Never hesitate to transfer your wealth to the government, so they can regulate you.
raylo32
Power poster
It's not black and white. Many regulations are necessary and beneficial. Others arbitrary and unnecessary. Debate the regulation, not the concept of regulations or make blanket condemnation.
Risky Rob
Established
I just paraphrased a bizarre comment from another member. I clearly posted my opinion that regulations should address moving violations. Actual offenses. It's passive-aggressive to call me a cheapskate if I'm opposed to ebike registration and insurance.
The words are "common sense", the government over here has not got any, in London one minute it's all cycle lanes and then it's not, normal cyclists are riding thro' red lines and wonder why then get hit, e-bikes are the new choice for thieves in city centers and the police have not got the sense of how to stop them, food delivery riders are speeding everywhere as it's the only way to make money as they have perhaps become the new inner city "white van" men. White van man is a UK thing about delivery drivers who always seem to be in a white van mostly a Transit white van. 
raylo32
Power poster
Sounds crazy, but really just too many people in one place competing for space and resources. We used to have our own "white van" guys here back in the day before the interweb, selling audio speakers. You would see them parked in shopping center or strip mall parking lots and know immediately who they were and what they were up to. As if there weren't plenty of legitimate retail outlets around but these guys would give you a "deal". Stuff was probably stolen.
The words are "common sense", the government over here has not got any, in London one minute it's all cycle lanes and then it's not, normal cyclists are riding thro' red lines and wonder why then get hit, e-bikes are the new choice for thieves in city centers and the police have not got the sense of how to stop them, food delivery riders are speeding everywhere as it's the only way to make money as they have perhaps become the new inner city "white van" men. White van man is a UK thing about delivery drivers who always seem to be in a white van mostly a Transit white van.
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glennb, you are quite right, but mayhem already exits in our city centers and it is unpalatable, apart from the e-bike problem shop keepers are trying to fight against organized shoplifting gangs where the perpetrators, (give myself a head ache thinking the big word), just walk out of the shop or if arrested are back on the streets again a few days later.
offGridDownUnder
Power poster
If sense was common, we would not hurt each other.
Invoking "common sense" is a cop-out to avoid admitting reality and trying to garner numbers and support by appealing to people's egos and emotion instead. This is what populists always do and if sense was actually common no one would listen to them.
Most people live by their egos and their whims without doing the heavy lifting of admitting their own motivations.
Risky Rob
Established
Yes, some members are discussing ebikes in the context of crowded urban areas, where others of us ride in suburban or rural places. There are also marked cultural differences in attitudes towards personal freedom.
There's a debate to be had. It just shouldn't reference the fact that fit cyclists exceed 25km/h.
They're not the people who are going to flatten pedestrians and head on other cyclists - they're alert, safety conscious, maintain their bicycles, and have thousands of hours experience.
It's novices, teenagers, and mentally impaired (AKA drug frocked) people who pose the danger. Nobody in their right mind would want to share the roads and paths with them on heavy electric motorcycles with barely functioning brakes, hence the 25km/h regulations.
They're not the people who are going to flatten pedestrians and head on other cyclists - they're alert, safety conscious, maintain their bicycles, and have thousands of hours experience.
It's novices, teenagers, and mentally impaired (AKA drug frocked) people who pose the danger. Nobody in their right mind would want to share the roads and paths with them on heavy electric motorcycles with barely functioning brakes, hence the 25km/h regulations.
gromike
Power poster
I'm of two minds in this discussion, I ride a licensed emoto that can do 80+mph, but also ebikes that do 30+ mph. I follow the rules of the road, but I don't ever want someone on an ebike to pass me when I'm on my ebike. I mean fairs fair right?
But that is where it started in the cities, but now not 5 miles away police have been checking e-bikes and we are in the country side.
raylo32
Power poster
It is not just culture and attitudes and "freedom"... crowded urban areas necessarily require more regulation simply because overcrowding causes a fair number of impatient and selfish people to behave badly. Not to mention you need to be able to identify the criminals from the other users. If you live in that situation that is just part of the deal. That is one reason I don't live in an urban area. We have other challenges out here in the 'burbs, but e-bike enforcement isn't one of them.
This guy's pretty fit. Right through red lights and past cops. Wonder if he's still alive?
The Toecutter
Power poster
- Joined
- Feb 8, 2015
- Messages
- 1,649
A is unsafe for ebike riders, who may need to get away from the trajectory of a fast-moving, much heavier vehicle, and/or keep pace with them in traffic to avoid getting run over, and won't be able to with said restrictions.
I prefer B, simply because we already are living it, and the other choices are worse. If we're going to restrict/ban anything, maybe we should start with SUVs/CUVs/trucks that pose the largest safety risk out of anything while taking up the largest road footprints causing the most congestion, and leave everything else alone, but I really don't want restrictions.
THIS is the rightful way:
Notice how many vehicles you can fit in a small space. All of them are so light that very little risk is posed to automobile operators, and significantly less risk is posed to pedestrians than by cars. And licensing, registration, insurance, taxes are all revenue generating scams anyway; if they weren't, then I'd be able to opt out of having to pay the portion going to profit margins for some greedy investors' or CEO's next yacht and have a say in my money not going to private 3rd party schemes that enforce these things, and as a working person, being forced to pay for that via government mandate is just wrong.
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I am impressed with the riding skill, do not think I would not get so far on my E-MTB with it's 720mm bars plus I wish to keep my bones all in one piece.
Yes, but not when pedestrians have been killed by e-bikes and e-scooters, a 14 year old on an e-scooter killed a 71 year old woman, a 56 year woman was killed by an e-bike rider. But it seem more people on e-scooters including kids are being killed over here when they hit or are hit by a vehicle. Ho hum.
The Toecutter
Power poster
- Joined
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- Messages
- 1,649
Many, many more are killed by cars/trucks/SUVs/CUVs. It's the inevitable result of sharing public space with vehicles of any kind. Risk can never be 0%.
Why not restrict cars/trucks/CUVs/SUVs to 28 mph/10 horsepower then? They carry far more mass and risk. And even without ebikes, it's still mayhem. People ignore the rules: they drive looking at their phones, they have sex while driving, they drive intoxicated, they drive distracted, they go 2-3x the speed limit, they drive unregistered without plates/license/insurance/ect, and we already have laws on the books to "prevent" these things, and they don't.
And more often than not, the law is used to target innocent people for revenue extraction because they went 1-2 mph over the speed limit, or a red light camera wrongfully ticketed them when they didn't even run it, under threat of jail or even violence for non-compliance, and at best, wasting their time making them show up in court. I'm sick of this crap. The bureaucrats, corporations, and government have too much power already, have gotten too greedy for our money, and it needs to be scaled back.
I would say that the difference is that you are in an exceedingly small group of people being, 'those that can pedal a normal bike 55kph on a sidewalk, but have the common sense not to.'
A 55kph capable ebike opens that opportunity to *everyone*, and even if 10% of those lack the common sense to go slow, 10% of everyone is still quite a lot!
The Toecutter
Power poster
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- Feb 8, 2015
- Messages
- 1,649
I've been close to 80 km/h on flat ground and over 140 km/h downhill in my Milan SL velomobile, both before installing a motor, entirely pedal powered. The motor is really only there so I can accelerate with traffic(something I can't do pedal powered, at least above about 25 km/h), and maintain car-like speeds uphill. Without using the motor, I can cruise at 50-55 km/h on flat ground without great effort, although getting to top speed in a full-effort sprint takes more than a mile and a half. With the electric motor, getting up to speed is very car-like, at least compared to flow of traffic, as it won't win any races with a car.
It's a bike, you're low down the pecking order, just above kick scooters and pedestrians. If you want move up the pecking order, go moped, even higher, go motorbike. The vehicle categories for what you want already exist.
Of course you want to have your cake and eat it too, that's natural. But it's greedy. Sidewalks are for pedestrians, bike lanes for bikes, roads for all other vehicles, and it needs to stay that way.
Yes, more sensible vehicle, "congestion", and fuel taxes would be welcome.
What this all comes down to is that the only e-bikes one can ride are known makes, Giant, Trek etc etc bought from a recognized retail outlet / shop complete with all the appropriate documentation which leads to all DIY builds being deemed illegal unless you get them tested and certified. It will get to / has got to the stage where you ride by the police and if they see it's a DIY build they can pull you up and there is a odds on chance they will take it off you and scrap it.
hillslayer@
Regular
Guess that's how I am going to go. Senior citizen who gets above 40 mph on a bike .
