Programming APT AE96600 controller from QSmotor

[MJSfoto1956]

The AE96600 controller you got is a new version, at least the shell. I wonder if flux weakening is working as it is blocked in my controller. It would show on the main screen as Id current when you run the motor.

Just to be sure: to check id current I need to plug my laptop in, then run the motor? (presumably on the center stand)

 

[larsb]

Yes, in main screen Id is presented, along with rpm etc. You'd have to have some flux weakening set to see it off course..

 

[MJSfoto1956]

The suggestion from QS is very questionable because a bettery current limit of less than 150A would be normally the right way of proceeding to prevent your BMS from cutting out, and not reducing phase amps from 600A down to 360A.

Ah, so we get to the heart of the matter. QSmotor is not doing things the way you think they should. Therefore they must be wrong. Got it. But then how to explain that their recommendation actually works? hmmmm...

M

P.S. I made no other changes other than their recommendation. In case you were wondering.

 

[MJSfoto1956]

Yes, in main screen Id is presented, along with rpm etc. You'd have to have some flux weakening set to see it off course..

I have not "set" anything -- the controller was set by QSmotor from the factory to (in theory) work with my specific V4 motor. Given that this is a FOC motor, and given that the V4 appears to be designed to handle gobs of high speed amps, I would have to assume that QS incorporated such into the controller's parameters. But again, who the hell knows what any of the params actually mean to QS engineering -- in spite of their (my claim remains "questionable") documentation.

 

[MJSfoto1956]

Man, the developer would be really really stupid if the numbers from the table do not represent phase amps 1:1
How can you ever put this into question, i mean you bought a 600A controller and the setting is called "Id" and it can be set from zero to 600

I'm going to go out on a limb here and posit the following: the set of params in question represent a lookup table that is used to "transform" the expected Phase Amps to something else. If such transformations include either multiplication or division then by definition, the numbers cannot represent Amps. To wit: 600A / 60A = 100. That's right: one hundred nothings. I'm willing to bet that more than likely the numbers are merely numeric (a.k.a. "scalar") lookup values and nothing more in spite of being labeled "Amps" in the documentation. In this way one can transform 600A to anything else and still keep "Amp" in the result.

YMMV

 

[madin88]

Ah, so we get to the heart of the matter. QSmotor is not doing things the way you think they should. Therefore they must be wrong. Got it. But then how to explain that their recommendation actually works? hmmmm...

M

P.S. I made no other changes other than their recommendation. In case you were wondering.

I am not saying that they are wrong, what i am saying is that it is very questionable that they gave you the advice to turn down phase amps to 360A if your BMS cuts out at 150A battery. It makes no sense at all.

You should ask QS about that because without knowing the actual battery A setting it still could happen that your BMS does cut out in given situations, or if you climb steeper hills as the one where it did cut out before.

the controller could convert:

60V/100A on battery side to 10V/600A on motor side
or 60V/250A battery to 41V/360A on motor

just taking this as an example here

 

[larsb]

But again, who the hell knows what any of the params actually mean to QS engineering -- in spite of their (my claim remains "questionable") documentation.

Do you think it's questionable?
Come on, this is getting absurd. The manual comes directly from advpower, not QS.
They probably know their product, don't you agree?

You can now write "my bad" again and then change your mind, won't make your assumptions more true.

 

[MJSfoto1956]

But again, who the hell knows what any of the params actually mean to QS engineering -- in spite of their (my claim remains "questionable") documentation.

Do you think it's questionable?
Come on, this is getting absurd. The manual comes directly from advpower, not QS.
They probably know their product, don't you agree?

You can now write "my bad" again and then change your mind, won't make it more true.

You obviously haven't worked with engineers as much as I have. 90% of the worlds documentation is pathetic. Are you suggesting that ADV is magically immune from this? I'm waiting on your admission of "my bad" because the absurdity is the dogmatic belief that it MUST be right. A more scientific approach would be to assume it is wrong then go from there.

 

[MJSfoto1956]

I am not saying that they are wrong, what i am saying is that it is very questionable that they gave you the advice to turn down phase amps to 360A if your BMS cuts out at 150A battery. It makes no sense at all.

Who says the param actually represents phase amps? Some piece of Chinese documentation? Written by whom? The number "600" should probably have been better written as "100" meaning "full power" (the transformation would be the same under the hood). Then folks like you who actually know these things inside and out wouldn't be assuming that 600 must mean "600 phase amps". Again, I think y'all are projecting here.

And more to the point is your admission that "it makes no sense at all" -- the implication that QS must be wrong. How can they be wrong if the advice actually works? Perhaps it is your assumptions that are wrong? Could that be? Any possibility of that?

 

[larsb]

the reason their change works is that there's no conflict between what they did and what you wanted to achieve - with low enough phase amps controller won't draw high battery amps. It's not the best way of doing it if reason isn't some other limitation in controller and as a consequence you lose low rpm torque from this setting.

What is the DC current set at?
If it's more than 150A, why do you want it to be higher than BMS limit?

 

[madin88]

Who says the param actually represents phase amps? Some piece of Chinese documentation? Written by whom? The number "600" should probably have been better written as "100" meaning "full power" (the transformation would be the same under the hood).

Simply due to the fact that it is a 600A controller and the setting is called "Iq" which is a short form for phase current and the max allowed value is "600", so it surly represent phase current 1:1
If it would be written as "100" meaning full power then 100 also would stand for 600A because it is a 600A controller!

All you need to do is change max DC battery current in the program to less than 150A (or whatever your battery is built for) to be safe, and then you should be able to set phase amps much higher as the 360A if you want more acceleration. The explanations have been given.
Thats how it's usually done but feel free to set your controller to whatever you like

 

[MJSfoto1956]

All you need to do is change max DC battery current in the program to less than 150A (or whatever your battery is built for) to be safe, and then you should be able to set phase amps much higher as the 360A if you want more acceleration. The explanations have been given. Thats how it's usually done but feel free to set your controller to whatever you like

All I need to do, huh? Um, and where exactly does one "set the max DC battery current" for an AE96600 via the APT program?

Here is a list of all available parameters (a few of which are greyed out). Knock yourself out:

Acc of id
Acc of iq
Acc of iq at Hall C
Acc of iq at reg
Acc of MLock
Acc of regenerate
Back steps threshold
Backward angle offset
Boost active sec
Boost ratio iac
Brake high level
Brake low level
BW iq ref step 00
BW iq ref step 01
BW iq ref step 02
BW iq ref step 03
BW iq ref step 04
BW iq ref step 05
BW iq ref step 06
BW iq ref step 07
BW iq ref step 08
BW iq ref step 09
BW iq ref step 10
BW iq ref step 11
BW iq ref step 12
BW iq ref step 13
BW speed step
Dec of id
Dec of iq
Dec of iq at Hall C
Dec of iq at reg
Dec of regenerate
Eco iq ref step 01
Eco iq ref step 02
Eco iq ref step 03
Eco iq ref step 04
Eco iq ref step 05
Eco iq ref step 06
Eco iq ref step 07
Eco iq ref step 08
Eco iq ref step 09
Eco iq ref step 10
Eco iq ref step 11
Eco iq ref step 12
Eco iq ref step 13
Eco speed Ki G
Eco speed Kp D
Eco speed Kp G
Flux period
Flux sign
Flux switch speed
Forward angle offset
Forward level
Hall A 1 remap
Hall A 2 remap
Hall A 3 remap
Hall A 4 remap
Hall A 5 remap
Hall A 6 remap
Hall B 1 remap
Hall B 2 remap
Hall B 3 remap
Hall B 4 remap
Hall B 5 remap
Hall B 6 remap
Hall connection
Hall group
Hall noisy pulses
Hall steps for 60 switch T
Heavy load Iac
Heavy load timeout
Iac ADC value 128A
Iac limit level
id ref step 00
id ref step 01
id ref step 02
id ref step 03
id ref step 04
id ref step 05
id ref step 06
id ref step 07
id ref step 08
id ref step 09
id ref step 10
id ref step 11
id ref step 12
id ref step 13
id ref H 10
id ref H 11
id ref H 12
id ref H 13
id ref H 9
id ref limit 0
id ref limit 1
Idc ave factor
Idc D2 power
Idc gain
Idc limit Ki G
Idc limit Kp D
Idc limit Kp G
Idc min percent
iq ki gain
iq ki gain 0
iq ki gain 0 pre
iq ki gain 2
iq ki gain 3
iq kp divisor
iq kp gain 0
iq kp gain 0 pre
iq kp gain 2
iq kp gain 3
iq ref step 01
iq ref step 02
iq ref step 03
iq ref step 04
iq ref step 05
iq ref step 06
iq ref step 07
iq ref step 08
iq ref step 09
iq ref step 10
iq ref step 11
iq ref step 12
iq ref step 13
iq ref limit 0
iq ref limit 1
iq ref of Hall C
Max Forward speed
Max Iac pk
Max reg Q
Max Reverse speed
Min reg speed
Mode 1 idc
Mode 1 speed
Mode 2 idc
Mode 2 speed
Mode 3 idc
Mode 3 speed
Mode 4 idc
Mode 4 speed
Mode 5 idc
MOS pk I
MOS pk I 1
Motor High Temp mode
Motor lock Iac
Motor lock timeout
Motor Over Heat
Motor Over Heat quit
Motor power derate delay
Motor power recover delay
Motor switch Temp
Motor Temp hysteresis
Motor Temp sensor type
Over VDC
Over VDC recover
Percentage in mid Tref
Percentage in mid Tref 2
Phase connection
Pole pairs num
Power derate delay
Power high Temp mode
Power Over Heat
Power Over Heat recover
Power recover delay
Power turn point
Printf period
Printf Switcher
Ref iac level
Reference period
Reg comp to VDC
Reverse level
Speed fall delay
Speed limit ki G
Speed limit kp D
Speed limit kp G
Speed of id 0
Speed PID step 0
Speed PID step 1
Speed PID step 2
Speed step
Speed pulses/cycle
Square angle offset
Square start step
Square step DDP
Start speed forecast
Startup speed high
Startup speed low
Startup speed min
Subproject num
Temp at I 0
Temp at I 1
Throttle high
Throttle low
Throttle mid
Tref mid vary delay
Tref mid vary speed
Under VDC
Under VDC recover
VDC of full reg
VDC of idc limit
VDC of idc min

 

[larsb]

You can find it in the screen with "mode" settings. It's in my AE96600 thread :wink:
It's also described in the manual. Took me some minutes to read and find it when i initially started to use the program.

[moderator edit to remove off-topic content]