ScooterMan101
1 MW
Yea , I might do just one up front and 9 in the back as well. with mountain gearing rear ratio's a single chain ring up front is workable for my legs as long as the largest cog is 32 or 34
Q100 and Q128 with 0.35mm laminations
- Thread starter Jasonv8z
- Start date
Cephalotus
10 kW
- Joined
- Jun 18, 2012
- Messages
- 755
Mikebergy said:
You are correct, cassettes are better (and often cheaper) than freewheels. No doubt about that.
I can only speak for the Sunrcae MFEX-9 AU9 and those shift quite well. The problem is reliability and the noisiness (and the weight). Also dismounting them can be quite a challange sometimes.
But sometimes cassettes are not an option with hub motors. Afaik the most lieghtweight direct drive is still the BionX SL motor at 3,4kg incl a built in 48V 30A controller. This motor has only been available with freewheels, so I accept that compromise. The Q100H motor is only available with a freewheel.
another problem with some hub motors and CST adaptors are the built in cluches. If they stop working you often have to buy a new motor, which can be very expensive with proprietary systems like BionX, Alber, GoSwiss, etc...
best regards.
Cephalotus
10 kW
- Joined
- Jun 18, 2012
- Messages
- 755
ScooterMan101 said:
Those are import products (most likely).
Imho there currently are no pedelecs sold in Germany that use hub motors with freewheels. The last one was BionX (SL motor) and they have left the German market (noone wants to sell them anymore, they had huge quality problems in 2011 and 2012)
I have no experience with those 10x freewheels, but the "good" Sunrace 9x freewheel shifts quite well. I had some cheaper 8x and 9x freewheels ad those have been of miserable quality.
Maybe you should ask the seller...
ScooterMan101
1 MW
Yea, just need to get up early enough and remember to call Germany .
Mikebergy
1 W
:lol:ScooterMan101 said:
Interesting thread this is 
And as an absolute beginner to ebike building nice learning, I thank you all.
Although I live in the Netherlands, it doesn't get any flatter, I want to use the bike also to have a more relaxed ride on vacations in more mountainous areas. So torque over speed.
But I do not want the ebike to be so slow that I can go faster on my old (1987) racebike on which I can do 25 km/h without difficulty.
From this thread I gather that 201RPM in 26" wheel tops at 25km/h (16mph)
And 328 tops at 41km/h (26 mph)
And that it is best to ride between 50% and 100% of top speed, optimum is 80%.
If you want to be in between you can get a 36V 201RPM motor and run at at 48V to have a topspeed of 48/36 * 25 = 33km/h.
Is this correct? Any drawbacks to this solution?
And as an absolute beginner to ebike building nice learning, I thank you all.Although I live in the Netherlands, it doesn't get any flatter, I want to use the bike also to have a more relaxed ride on vacations in more mountainous areas. So torque over speed.
But I do not want the ebike to be so slow that I can go faster on my old (1987) racebike on which I can do 25 km/h without difficulty.
From this thread I gather that 201RPM in 26" wheel tops at 25km/h (16mph)
And 328 tops at 41km/h (26 mph)
And that it is best to ride between 50% and 100% of top speed, optimum is 80%.
If you want to be in between you can get a 36V 201RPM motor and run at at 48V to have a topspeed of 48/36 * 25 = 33km/h.
Is this correct? Any drawbacks to this solution?
leo99
100 W
Hi everybody
I have been following this thread for a while and I have finally the perfect bike for this motor. When is this motor available? I would be interested in the Q100h 201 or 260.
I have been following this thread for a while and I have finally the perfect bike for this motor. When is this motor available? I would be interested in the Q100h 201 or 260.
Sunder
10 MW
Is this still on?
I'm now in a position to buy.
I'm now in a position to buy.
Allex
100 MW
+1
chas58
10 kW
Yep. Correct.
I bought a 201rpm motor and found I was faster/stronger than the motor (I tend to do 20mph on my own).
201 is roughly 16mph
260 is roughly 20mph
328 is roughly 26mph, but keep in mind a Q100 doesn't typically have the power to do over 20mph on its own.
So, most Q100 people run a 260rpm motor at 36 volts or a 200rpm motor at 48volts to get roughly 20mph.
I bought a 201rpm motor and found I was faster/stronger than the motor (I tend to do 20mph on my own).
201 is roughly 16mph
260 is roughly 20mph
328 is roughly 26mph, but keep in mind a Q100 doesn't typically have the power to do over 20mph on its own.
So, most Q100 people run a 260rpm motor at 36 volts or a 200rpm motor at 48volts to get roughly 20mph.
toine-s said:Interesting thread this is
Although I live in the Netherlands, it doesn't get any flatter, I want to use the bike also to have a more relaxed ride on vacations in more mountainous areas. So torque over speed.
But I do not want the ebike to be so slow that I can go faster on my old (1987) racebike on which I can do 25 km/h without difficulty.
From this thread I gather that 201RPM in 26" wheel tops at 25km/h (16mph)
And 328 tops at 41km/h (26 mph)
And that it is best to ride between 50% and 100% of top speed, optimum is 80%.
If you want to be in between you can get a 36V 201RPM motor and run at at 48V to have a topspeed of 48/36 * 25 = 33km/h.
Is this correct? Any drawbacks to this solution?
Mikebergy
1 W
Me too. I want a front and rear motorneptronix said:
Sunder
10 MW
Have PMed Jason. Will let you know if he responds directly to me.
ScooterMan101
1 MW
+ 1 On Wanting a motor .
Wonder what different models will be offered ?
With display/controller, all the wiring plug and play like the latest Q100 ?
Jason ?
Wonder what different models will be offered ?
With display/controller, all the wiring plug and play like the latest Q100 ?
Jason ?
Jasonv8z
1 W
Sorry for the slow responses. I've been travelling around China to visit a few bike factories and vacation. Last week I spent half a day at Aikema and spoke at length with the manager about our needs. Unfortunately, the business culture of China is such that you are a nobody unless you are a big buyer. The manager mentioned how Currie used to buy 10,000 motors a year from them, so ordering 5 motors in this and that configuration did not exactly put a smile on his face. Needless to say, we are at the very bottom of their priority list right now. Nevertheless, I conveyed our needs and put it in the frame of the American market and it's untapped potential, and we were able to come up with a few configurations that would be available in about a month:
1) Cooling fans for Q100 and 128 motors. Apparently this does not help the Q100 significantly but adds about 20C of cooling to the Q128
2) 0.35 laminations for 128 motors
3) Stronger clutch (ready for production)
With larger orders (min 50 pieces):
4) side exit wiring (not through axle)
5) custom spacing (so rim brake 135mm cassette motors with larger motor stacks would be possible)
He mentioned that the customized 2.2kg Q100 freewheel I am having them produce and the 3.0kg Q128 cassette were about the same in output power, with the Q128 possibly having slightly more torque. He said that he would provide data when it was available.
I'm still planning to receive an order of Q100 motors in April. I'll order Q128 motors as they become available.
Aikema was very secretive and would not let me take photos, but other factories were more willing:
1) Cooling fans for Q100 and 128 motors. Apparently this does not help the Q100 significantly but adds about 20C of cooling to the Q128
2) 0.35 laminations for 128 motors
3) Stronger clutch (ready for production)
With larger orders (min 50 pieces):
4) side exit wiring (not through axle)
5) custom spacing (so rim brake 135mm cassette motors with larger motor stacks would be possible)
He mentioned that the customized 2.2kg Q100 freewheel I am having them produce and the 3.0kg Q128 cassette were about the same in output power, with the Q128 possibly having slightly more torque. He said that he would provide data when it was available.
I'm still planning to receive an order of Q100 motors in April. I'll order Q128 motors as they become available.
Aikema was very secretive and would not let me take photos, but other factories were more willing:
How about doing a group buy / kickstarter for this and if they will do a 25 unit order, we can get the motors made that way?
Just make one of these motors that fits in a standard 135mm and is wound to do about 20mph on 36v in a 26" wheel.
Cassette or not, make it fit a 7 speed.
This is the most common bicycle dropout, winding, and gearing. Just make 25 of that motor as a sampler, then open up other options as time goes on.
If you can fit the q128 with a disc brake and 7 or 6 speed, do that instead.. it sounds like a damn cool motor.
Just make one of these motors that fits in a standard 135mm and is wound to do about 20mph on 36v in a 26" wheel.
Cassette or not, make it fit a 7 speed.
This is the most common bicycle dropout, winding, and gearing. Just make 25 of that motor as a sampler, then open up other options as time goes on.
If you can fit the q128 with a disc brake and 7 or 6 speed, do that instead.. it sounds like a damn cool motor.
ScooterMan101
1 MW
Neptronix.
You are , Missing , the point that Jason is going to do, He is ... Not .. going to offer the same old / antiquated , kind of motor that you will get from many other places right now .
He ... Is ... going to have made and sell motors that are better, and will be for the people who need a motor that is not at this time available.
For instance.
There are plenty of 135mm dropout spacing motors that accept a 7-8 Freewheel . so buying those are a waste of time and money for him and will only leave him with a
bunch of metal that is already outdated ! in other words , wasted money and effort .
The Goal is to offer Motors with more torque, better gears, and ... to allow more Speeds on the Back ! ( you can still use a 7-8 speed cassette on a modern 10/11 speed cassette freehub body , by just using spacers,
you ... cannot fit a 10/11 speed cassette on a freehub body that is made for 9 speed and under .
Then add to that the ,... Fact ... that many people want to convert a nice road bike, and unless the road bike is very modern , like the last couple of years and has disc brakes, that road bike with rim brakes ... Has a 130 mm dropout !
And By the Way ... Many mountain bikes have been 10 speed on the back for 5 + years now, and the last couple of years 11 speed on the back, yes that is right, more on the back , and less on the front . 2x10 and now 1 x 11 , you can just use 7 of those rear if you want.
10/11 speed components are better quality, lighter, and work more efficiently, with less drag, and with more precision , So when converting, or designing any vehicle that is run on Electric, EFFICIENCY is Necessary for longer range and / or lighter weight batteries packs !
So the best thing for Jason to offer is a Hub motor that will accept any speed cassette ( 10/11 down to 7 with spacers ) at 130 dropout spacing , and the same motor 135 dropout spacing , designed so as to be build with less dishing required on the wheel build, than what is for sale all over the place now. In other words A Better Product , and a product that many of us have been waiting for .
That is what will Sell .
You are , Missing , the point that Jason is going to do, He is ... Not .. going to offer the same old / antiquated , kind of motor that you will get from many other places right now .
He ... Is ... going to have made and sell motors that are better, and will be for the people who need a motor that is not at this time available.
For instance.
There are plenty of 135mm dropout spacing motors that accept a 7-8 Freewheel . so buying those are a waste of time and money for him and will only leave him with a
bunch of metal that is already outdated ! in other words , wasted money and effort .
The Goal is to offer Motors with more torque, better gears, and ... to allow more Speeds on the Back ! ( you can still use a 7-8 speed cassette on a modern 10/11 speed cassette freehub body , by just using spacers,
you ... cannot fit a 10/11 speed cassette on a freehub body that is made for 9 speed and under .
Then add to that the ,... Fact ... that many people want to convert a nice road bike, and unless the road bike is very modern , like the last couple of years and has disc brakes, that road bike with rim brakes ... Has a 130 mm dropout !
And By the Way ... Many mountain bikes have been 10 speed on the back for 5 + years now, and the last couple of years 11 speed on the back, yes that is right, more on the back , and less on the front . 2x10 and now 1 x 11 , you can just use 7 of those rear if you want.
10/11 speed components are better quality, lighter, and work more efficiently, with less drag, and with more precision , So when converting, or designing any vehicle that is run on Electric, EFFICIENCY is Necessary for longer range and / or lighter weight batteries packs !
So the best thing for Jason to offer is a Hub motor that will accept any speed cassette ( 10/11 down to 7 with spacers ) at 130 dropout spacing , and the same motor 135 dropout spacing , designed so as to be build with less dishing required on the wheel build, than what is for sale all over the place now. In other words A Better Product , and a product that many of us have been waiting for .
That is what will Sell .
Sunder
10 MW
That's true for me. I am wanting to pay a premium price for a premium product, not just get customisation. To me that means:
● Stronger clutch
● Thinner lamination
● Tighter packing of copper.
Cassette is a priority for me too at the moment, but I could work around that if that's not popular.
● Stronger clutch
● Thinner lamination
● Tighter packing of copper.
Cassette is a priority for me too at the moment, but I could work around that if that's not popular.
I'm only in it for the increased power density and efficiency..
Not what type of axle it has, how many speeds it has, etc. I can get that on any average hub these days.
If we can't agree on a lowest common denominator axle/gear configuration that will fit a majority of bikes, these motors will probably not get made. We'll just sit here and continue to argue about what's best..
Not what type of axle it has, how many speeds it has, etc. I can get that on any average hub these days.
If we can't agree on a lowest common denominator axle/gear configuration that will fit a majority of bikes, these motors will probably not get made. We'll just sit here and continue to argue about what's best..
Ykick
1 GW
That's awesome Jason! Did you meet Sivian, by chance? She came through for me - got my gears but unfortunately during the long wait I seem to have lost a critical washer/shim that rides behind the nylon gear on top of a Torrington bearing. Oy vey... I'll keep looking and/or make something if I have to.
motomech
10 MW
I'm guessing those parts are larger than the Q100 items. I've got extra Cute stuff.Ykick said:
Ykick
1 GW
motomech said:
I dunno if they're similar or not? I'd pay good money for one?
Here's a picture and I took measurements - 27-28mm O.D. 15-16mm I.D. 1mm thick
motomech
10 MW
No money needed.
I'll ck., but it might be a day or two, extra motor parts are @ my buddies house.
I'll ck., but it might be a day or two, extra motor parts are @ my buddies house.
ScooterMan101
1 MW
Since you/he says that the 2.2 Kg Q100 freewheel, and the 3.0Kg Q128 is about the same output power.
and you say that you are going to order the Q100 in a batch first. And the Q128's a few months later ,
Hopefully/Perhaps ... you have enough people here that want one of the newer Q100's that you can order that first batch with , side Exit Wiring .
offering a light weight motor 2.2 kg, with side exiting wiring, would be different enough from what is being sold now , to justify ordering at least 51
and get you more customers , that would otherwise just order a Q100 from china directly ( BMS Battery , Etc. ) .
D o you think he would let you split that 50 minimum order of the Q100 to get most of them rear , but some fronts ?
Because if you can , I want a front as well as a rear.
That side exiting wiring option is a big selling point for me.
All who are interested in the Q100 with the improvements Jason is having them do. ... Let Jason know if you want a Q100 with side exiting wiring .
Thanks
and you say that you are going to order the Q100 in a batch first. And the Q128's a few months later ,
Hopefully/Perhaps ... you have enough people here that want one of the newer Q100's that you can order that first batch with , side Exit Wiring .
offering a light weight motor 2.2 kg, with side exiting wiring, would be different enough from what is being sold now , to justify ordering at least 51
and get you more customers , that would otherwise just order a Q100 from china directly ( BMS Battery , Etc. ) .
D o you think he would let you split that 50 minimum order of the Q100 to get most of them rear , but some fronts ?
Because if you can , I want a front as well as a rear.
That side exiting wiring option is a big selling point for me.
All who are interested in the Q100 with the improvements Jason is having them do. ... Let Jason know if you want a Q100 with side exiting wiring .
Thanks
Jasonv8z said:
Lurkin
100 kW
Could be interested in a Q128H...
