QSMOTOR,0.5-12kW Electric Hub Motor & Mid Drive Motor Manufacture China

[BobTheBuilder]

Or set up never gets hot on the 24" hookworms , warm is good. But I never felt any of or Defkon Emoto Set ups become hot. That's why I won't do a 26" tire

 

[QSMOTOR]

QS 205 v3
I'd like to get some opinions on what the max acceptable running temp is for this motor.
So far I've seen up to 132 deg Celsius.
I want to stay in the safe zone,
Thanks

Hello Joost,

Good Question!
For QS Hub Motor,
The maximum long term motor temperatur is 120 ℃
Maximum short term(＜5s) motor temperatur is 150℃

For more information, I am checking with our Engineer now.

Note: QS Motor is closed for Spring Festival, from 28th Jan. to 14th Feb. 2016, and not able to produce since 23th Feb., 2016.
Expoting Dept. (SIA) will keep on working & have short Spring Festival from 7th Feb. to 14th Feb., 2016.
New order's could be placed before 7th Feb., 2016, and we will start to produce motors as soon as we come back to work.

Best Regards

 

[macribs]

Seems you are still well within limits, I didn't know the v3 could stand that much heat. Impressive. Good choice of magnets and adhesive from QS team.
If you already got statorade and still hits those number fairly quick I would consider a rim change. Lower the current seems like the less fun way to go 8)
Smaller wheel also will give you more acceleration.....

 

[QSMOTOR]

Seems you are still well within limits, I didn't know the v3 could stand that much heat. Impressive. Good choice of magnets and adhesive from QS team.
If you already got statorade and still hits those number fairly quick I would consider a rim change. Lower the current seems like the less fun way to go 8)
Smaller wheel also will give you more acceleration.....

Hello Macribs,

Motor could work 120 ℃ in half an hour without damage.
Conservative Suggestion (Setting of Controller)
When it's 130 ℃ inside of motor (in 30s), the current should be limited 50%.
When it's 150 ℃, the controller shut down.
When it drop down to 110℃, the controller work again.

Btw., to make full use of motor, we're testing the performance of 3000W 205 Hub motor, 24*5T winding.
We don't have sufficient test data, but I would like to share some testing.

6000W 273 Hub Motor testing Picture for reference.

5th Temp Sensor Position


Phase Current 100A, Last 36s, about 90N.m, the temp go to 150℃.

Phase Current 150A, Last 20s, the temp go to 180 ℃, and there is smoke.


Then, we limited 100A & 150A battery current & Phase Current 200A & 250A.
Here is the test report for reference (test by Lingbo 72602 controller).
24x5T Battery Current 100 Phase Current 200, Peak 152.5N.m
View attachment 6
24x5T Battery Current 150 Phase Current 200, Peak 148.7N.m
View attachment 24x5T Battery Current 150 Phase Current 200.pdf
24X5T Battery Current 100 Phase Current 250, Peak 181.3N.m
The peak phase current is about 220A (by tong-type ammeter about 156A).
View attachment 24X5T Battery Current 100 Phase Current 250-.pdf

Conclusion.
For phase current, 100A 36s, 150A 20s, 220-240A, 2s.
After Chinese New Year, we will keep on testing 24X5T winding motor when come back to work.
E.g. Input 72V 150A or even 200A battery current...
More testing on V2 18*4T Winding...

Suggestion.
For QS 3000W 205 50H V3 Spoke Hub Motor, 24X5T Winding.
Phase current, we suggest to set 200A (10s), 220-240A (1-2s).
For battery current, it could be 150A (72V).

For other winding motor, we suggest to set max phase current 40 Time of Wire cross-sectional area (10s).
E.g. 24X5T winding, the wire cross-sectional area is 24X0.204=4.896mm²
Peak Phase Current 4.896*40=195.84A.
If any question, please feel free to contact with us.

Best Regards

 

[macribs]

Btw what kind of wheel size are you running and what kind of power are you feeding you hot v3? Maybe it will run cooler if you have smaller wheel diameter?

Thanks macribs,
I'm running a 19" moto wheel with 241 tire....and I weigh 220 lbs.

6cc of statorade from grin type 'A' in there.

I think a 17" or 18" would be better, but that also takes away from it's off-road ability a bit..may have to bite the bullet and do it, no use ruining a great motor.

Currently running 113 battery amps and 250 phase amps in the Adaptto controller settings. I'll likely dial that down a bit to see if it makes a big difference.

It typically gets to the 120 deg range fairly quickly

Btw what is the ambient temperature? Are you riding in hot weather, like 30 degrees plus?
Some great tests run by the QS team, will see if I can get the time to look more at them today. Seems those are tough as nails. With good quality magnets, adhesive and plenty of copper.

Ever consider to have clamp style heat sink between the flanges? If I get the same results you do I will consider get a custom clamp style heat sink to help remove the heat. Could possible be a combination between heat sink and heat pipes. Oops. I did it again. Way ahead of myself. I haven't even read the tests from Vito and his team yet. Maybe statorade alone will cut it. At least it is a great and easy first try with known good results.

 

[joostj]

Btw what is the ambient temperature? Are you riding in hot weather, like 30 degrees plus?
Some great tests run by the QS team, will see if I can get the time to look more at them today. Seems those are tough as nails. With good quality magnets, adhesive and plenty of copper.

Ever consider to have clamp style heat sink between the flanges? If I get the same results you do I will consider get a custom clamp style heat sink to help remove the heat. Could possible be a combination between heat sink and heat pipes. Oops. I did it again. Way ahead of myself. I haven't even read the tests from Vito and his team yet. Maybe statorade alone will cut it. At least it is a great and easy first try with known good results.

I'm in San Diego, but it's still not hot here, nothing over 20 deg while riding.

Clamp style heat sink?? any link to that?

I was actually thinking of adding some small heat sinks to the covers with thermal adhesive.

 

[macribs]

I was actually thinking of adding some small heat sinks to the covers with thermal adhesive.

Yeah that was my thought as well earlier. Before the big test done by justin. Then I realized those would not remove enough heat.

Clamp style heat sink?? any link to that?

Hehe no as they are "in progress" in my workshop. I've been toying around with various ways of attaching heat sinks between the flanges for a while and clamp style seems to be the best way to get a secure anchor to the hub. It splits in two, fits between the flanges and have a much higher surface then the motor shell itself. Plus if I can work in some heat pipes it should quadruple the heat removal over heat sink alone. This is nothing but cardboard, glue and pieces of wooden laminate yet. I will try to get it made locally, or I might try one of the smaller pc/server cooling specialists and see if they can do a one off.

But if you imagine a regular clamp that fits the outer diameter of your motor, picture that clamp being made from a thick slab (20-35 mm) of aluminum. Then CNC the heck out of it to remove mass to get a bigger surface.

All in all, it will be a closed loop cooling system. Air cooling and liquid cooling (pipes). And fairly light weight - after all it will go on a 15 kilo wheel so counting each and every gram are not too important.

Don't got any drawings as I suck at that. But imagine those clamps big enough to fit your motor. And thick so you can carve out more material. And yeah this pic is not really a clamp but you get the idea.

 

[joostj]

Wow that sounds awesome. I will be keeping an eye on your progress for sure

 

[madin88]

Thanks for the graphs. thumbs up!
thats really informative data and it would be nice to see same tests as well from the V2 EXPORT type (4Tx18 than), because this motor is widely used (as Cromotor) and having graphs for comparison would be awesome.

at the graphs i have noticed something:

as the voltage stays the same, shouldn't the graphs not ABSOLUTELY be identical up to a given point (with point i mean before any amp limitation kicks in)?

the 150/200A and 100/250A graphs are similar: at 100Nm the motor has about 540RPM and is 84% efficienct (incredible!!!)

but the 100/200A graph looks like it is from a better motor: at 100Nm the motor has about 560RPM and 88% eff

However that be, the numbers are truly impressive

 

[macribs]

QS 205 v3
I'd like to get some opinions on what the max acceptable running temp is for this motor.

So far I've seen up to 132 deg Celsius.

I want to stay in the safe zone,
Thanks

Next time you are riding could you try to crank it up to eleven? Give it max and see how fast (roughly) motor heats up to 130 C. Then reduce throttle and cruise along and try to notice how fast the temperature drops below 100 or even 90 C. I would guess that reducing the throttle given you already got statorade your temps should drop fairly quick.

Here is what Vito said:

Motor could work 120 ℃ in half an hour without damage.
Conservative Suggestion (Setting of Controller)
When it's 130 ℃ inside of motor (in 30s), the current should be limited 50%.
When it's 150 ℃, the controller shut down.
When it drop down to 110℃, the controller work again.

It seems that I might be over thinking this, if it is only a matter of a tiny little heat removal to stay on the safe side those heat pipes might not even be needed. That would simplify the heat sink very much. The heat sink itself will add thermal masses, plus it being made from alloy it will heat up rapidly and cool down rapidly. And with the statorade moving the heat faster to the out shell that should make the alloy heat sink work well just on its own.

Then there is another option, and that is to remove some of the outer shell. You will end up with a lighter motor. Well for those who would like to go all in maybe drilling some traces/slots in the outer shell between the flanges you could remove more then 1 kilo of the out shell like on a mxus 45 like Madin88 did. Wonder if it would be possible to remove even more weight in the QS v3? Anyway if you make a heat sink that will match up to the traces/slots in the motor shell, add a little thermal grease and clamp on a unseemly large heat sink and place the heat sink between the flanges you should have gotten the best of two worlds. A lighter motor, that will give you more ride quality, less stress on suspension and probably even faster acceleration due to less mass to spin up.The improved surface area between the heat sink and the outer shell should also make for faster heat transfer to the heat sink . And on top of all that your cooling should improve.

Below is the great work of Madin88 as he removed some fat from his mxus.

 

[joostj]

Next time you are riding could you try to crank it up to eleven? Give it max and see how fast (roughly) motor heats up to 130 C. Then reduce throttle and cruise along and try to notice how fast the temperature drops below 100 or even 90 C. I would guess that reducing the throttle given you already got statorade your temps should drop fairly quick.

I assume you mean crank the OVS to 11? I will do that.

From here on out I will get more data before making changes. I added the statorade before getting a good idea how it ran without it with the new battery and higher amp settings.

Can anyone tell me how to set the Adaptto to reduce amps at a certain temp? I would like it to start cutting amp output (50%) at 125 deg motor temp.

Also want to play with setting battery amps and phase amps the same, then slowly increasing phase amps to see at what point the heat becomes an issue.

There are quite of few of these motors out there now....it would be awesome to have someone smarter than me share their fine tune settings for the Adaptto.
I will try and play with the hall angle settings to see if I can improve it over the auto detect.

 

[ecycler]

On "boost function" I have to lean way over my bars or the front end comes up even @ 60mph.

With only a top speed of ~70mph?!?! Regardless, it sounds like you need to ditch the tried and true hookworms for some 241's or 244's for better longevity.

 

[ridethelightning]

Next time you are riding could you try to crank it up to eleven? Give it max and see how fast (roughly) motor heats up to 130 C. Then reduce throttle and cruise along and try to notice how fast the temperature drops below 100 or even 90 C. I would guess that reducing the throttle given you already got statorade your temps should drop fairly quick.

I assume you mean crank the OVS to 11? I will do that.

From here on out I will get more data before making changes. I added the statorade before getting a good idea how it ran without it with the new battery and higher amp settings.

Can anyone tell me how to set the Adaptto to reduce amps at a certain temp? I would like it to start cutting amp output (50%) at 125 deg motor temp.

Also want to play with setting battery amps and phase amps the same, then slowly increasing phase amps to see at what point the heat becomes an issue.

There are quite of few of these motors out there now....it would be awesome to have someone smarter than me share their fine tune settings for the Adaptto.
I will try and play with the hall angle settings to see if I can improve it over the auto detect.

go to motor temp limits. its in >controller setup > Advanced settings >T limit (set to 125C)
it should cut the amps right down as you approach that temp.

@11, i think he is alluding to a ridiculous satire/comedy movie about dumb rockstars, they turn the amp up to 11 to make it louder....special
so probaly means crank the shit out of it
ovs only goes to 7 unfortunately...

 

[joostj]

go to motor temp limits. its in >controller setup > Advanced settings >T limit (set to 125C)
it should cut the amps right down as you approach that temp.

@11, i think he is alluding to a ridiculous satire/comedy movie about dumb rockstars, they turn the amp up to 11 to make it louder....special
so probaly means crank the shit out of it
ovs only goes to 7 unfortunately...

Thanks man,

I just pulled this from the manual.....

T◦limit - Peak temperature limit of the motor. Upon reaching the temperature 20 degrees below this limit, the controller will begin limiting power as the temperature increases, reaching zero power at the temperature limit.

I think 135-140 might be a good place to set it, so that way it starts limiting a 115-120 deg. It's at 180 now...not good

 

[macribs]

I assume you mean crank the OVS to 11? I will do that.

Sorry bad and inaccurate wording, I was really meaning you should crank full throttle. That crank it @11 was just some bad movie line.

 

[ridethelightning]

Vito, have you been following this thread about induction motors?
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=73164

perhaps there is some scope for you to produce these in the future?

 

[QSMOTOR]

Vito, have you been following this thread about induction motors?
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=73164

perhaps there is some scope for you to produce these in the future?

Hello Ridethelightning,

Thank you for your advise. I will check with our Engineer accordingly after Chinese New Year!

Best Regards

 

[Artur]

[youtube]kXRioahxFIs[/youtube]

 

[Kodin]

^ Yeah, Justin's been experimenting with FerroFluid as a cooling mechanism for hubmotors. Check out his definitive cooling of hub motors thread for more info. Only takes a couple ml of fluid to double the heat-shedding capacity of a motor. (More is not better, there's a reason it's ~5 ml for typical sized hubmotors).

 

[joostj]

Fine tuning settings for Adaptto.

My motor QS 205 v3 5t

Setting from auto detect:
Ang corr +1.70
Ind timing 558uS
PWR timing+0.51

After tinkering and testing today;
Ang corr +2.40
Ind timing 814uS
PWR timing+0.33

Seems to run better overall, but being a noob, I defer to the experts on this.

 

[JumperJackFlash]

Vito,

Happy Chinese New Year!

When you are back, could you see if your team can lace a 273 Motor into a 19"X1.6" motorcycle rim?

Thanks.

 

[QSMOTOR]

Vito,

Happy Chinese New Year!

When you are back, could you see if your team can lace a 273 Motor into a 19"X1.6" motorcycle rim?

Thanks.

Thank u.
So far, we dont have plan to lace a 273 motor into a 19*1.6 moped wheel.
We will mainly focus on doing test in lab .
If any news, will update in our web and forum.

 

[Merlin]

Thank u.
So far, we dont have plan to lace a 273 motor into a 19*1.6 moped wheel.

If you present a 273 in a 19" wheel I am pretty sure we have enough crazy freaks who will order it.... Just to feed that bitch with 30kw

 

[ecycler]

Thank u.
So far, we dont have plan to lace a 273 motor into a 19*1.6 moped wheel.

If you present a 273 in a 19" wheel I am pretty sure we have enough crazy freaks who will order it.... Just to feed that bitch with 30kw

Add me to that list.

 

[jansevr]

For those of you interested in a 273 in a 19" moto rim why not lace it yourself? More than likely you will need to do quite a bit of custom work to fit this in whatever frame you plan to use...lacing the wheel should be easy compared to this.