Question about unusual config 4 a brushless gear hub motor

[froglips]

Hi all. New to the forum. New to motorized bike builds. First, I would like to state the goals of my build and pick the brains of those experienced in these matters.

I want to combine the potential to drive the rear wheel with a four-stroke, gas powered Honda GHX 50 motor with a transmission (sacrilege gasp!) with a e-bike 36v350w brushless gear hub motor rear wheel drive. As I see it it affords me two advantages I find desirable: 1) The relative silence of an e-bike motor when the situation warrants it 2) The power assist of an e-bike motor to provide additional umph for uphill climbs so I can gear the rear sprocket for higher top end speed. My Trek MTB frame already has TRP v-brakes in the rear and 180mm brake rotor with a TRP Spyke Mech Disc Brake mounted on a Rock Shox Solo Air Recon Silver R 26" suspension fork with a FSA Orbit MX headset (Not the cheap Chinese knock-off).

Seeing as how the 6 hole disc brake mount on the e-bike hub motor can accommodate a rear drive sprocket for the gasoline engine, would this cause some unforeseen problem with the hub motor? My understanding is that the gear hub motor basically is a idle hub when no power is applied to the motor. The main issue I could foresee is that the brake rotor mount would not hold up to the torque generated by the rear sprocket. There is considerable torque applied during braking so what's your opinion? Would it be advantageous to replace the hub bearings with better quality units?

I am opting for a 36v because a seller on eBay offers a LG 36v 4.4ah lithium ion battery with BMS, making the battery build relatively easy to configure (5 units for a total of 22AH for $155 ). I will custom build a removable aluminum battery housing that curves/doubles as rear fender/pannier rack frame.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/5-LG-36V-4-4AH-BATTERY-PACK-18650-EBIKE-VAPE-POWERWALL-BATTERIES-100-CELLS-BMS/172660442407?_trkparms=aid%3D555018%26algo%3DPL.SIM%26ao%3D2%26asc%3D41375%26meid%3De89cac9b750d45c1b4f6bd89e3f69c7d%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D2%26rkt%3D6%26mehot%3Dpp%26sd%3D201916138726&_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851

The other option is to use a front hub motor. I have heard that the front suspension travel is hampered (32mm dia. strut notwithstanding) by a front hub motor when it is under power as well the additional weight having a negative impact on steering the bike. How critical are these negatives for a front hub motor mount?

Some other loose ends -

I would like to use my Sun Ringle Sunrims Rhyno Lite XL 26” 559mmX29.2mm rims with eyelets for the build. I want a four cross pattern (Have read flex of this pattern is desirable) using stainless steel spokes (13 gauge). Because the wheel assembly will at times be under load with the power of a gas engine AND a hub motor, is it prudent to go with 12 gauge spokes? I saw a post on this forum of someone removing the eyelets and replacing them with a washer/nut combo but sadly the video no longer exists so I am at a loss as to what components to buy for what seems to me to be a superior nipple mount. Is there an advantage of using stainless steel nipples? If not, please recommend what is most desirable and be so kind to explain why it is the best choice. Where would I source the spokes and how do you determine the length?

The hub motor will have hall sensors (to maximize motor efficiency?). Any recommendations as to which hub motor to purchase? What motor controller would you recommend? Would prefer speed sensor feature built-in into configuration. I am a heavy load. Would like the motor and controller choice to be futured in the event there is not enough power I can reconfigure the battery to 52v and over volt the motor. I would rather pay more up front for these items than replace them down the road.

Thank you for taking the time to view this post and look forward to your input.

Froglips

 

[MadRhino]

Just use a bigger hub motor, and you will not need the 50 cc engine anymore. No interesting power can be on the front, with a DH fork especially. All you need is a big hub, an 18X4110 controller, and batteries to feed it. Then you will find that your 50 cc is useless crap.

 

[amberwolf]

The main issue I could foresee is that the brake rotor mount would not hold up to the torque generated by the rear sprocket.

I doubt that would be a problem (running thru the freewheel mount might be).

Would it be advantageous to replace the hub bearings with better quality units?

It won't hurt anything, but they're probably good enough for now. If they become a problem you can always replace them later.

I am opting for a 36v because a seller on eBay offers a LG 36v 4.4ah lithium ion battery with BMS,

There's apparently lots of those under different names/sellers; note that some claim they are one kind of cell with a certain capacity, etc., but others say they are other kinds of cells with different capacities, so until you actually get them and test them under load, I wouldn't make definite plans around their "specs".

If you look around ES for "ebay" there's a number of recent threads discussing variations on these packs.

I will custom build a removable aluminum battery housing that curves/doubles as rear fender/pannier rack frame.

I recommend putting the battery just about anywhere *other* than the rear rack, as it will negatively impact handling there. Even low on the sides around the rear axle would be much better than up above that.

Because the wheel assembly will at times be under load with the power of a gas engine AND a hub motor, is it prudent to go with 12 gauge spokes?

Thinner is better, unless you're using rims specifically designed for the tensions the higher gauges need. Too high a spoke tension (too thick a spoke) will destroy the rim, and too low a tension on the spokes (regardless of gauge) will cause loose and broken spokes.

I'd use 13/14 butted or double-butted spokes, at the thickest. 14/15 would probably work fine.

Eyelets already in the rim are better than washers added in place of them, to keep from creating cracks in the nipple holes and destroying the rim.

Where would I source the spokes and how do you determine the length?

http://www.ebikes.ca/tools/spoke-calc.html

. Would like the motor and controller choice to be futured in the event there is not enough power I can reconfigure the battery to 52v and over volt the motor.

If you think you'll need more power, you don't want to go with a low-power motor, because with a geared hub this will result in overheating and destruction of the motor. There are threads on cooling hub motors that might help, but most of them are about DD not geared, as it is significantly harder to get the heat out of a geared hub due to more layers of stuff heat has to go thru to get out.

You'll also have to make sure your batteries are capable of providing the higher power level to start with, or you'll end up adding more (or better) battery to run the higher power levels.


You can use the simulators at http://ebikes.ca to get an idea of the kind of power needed to do what you're after, though it will take a bit of reading the instructions and playing with the simulator to get the hang of it.

 

[Rassy]

May not have too much in common with what you plan to do, but augidog has a bike set up with both gas power and electric power:

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=75392

 

[froglips]

Just use a bigger hub motor, and you will not need the 50 cc engine anymore. No interesting power can be on the front, with a DH fork especially. All you need is a big hub, an 18X4110 controller, and batteries to feed it. Then you will find that your 50 cc is useless crap.

I plan on touring Israel with this build (Handicap mobility device). There isn't enough battery capacity to traverse the distances I would like to travel on any given day, hence the need for a gas engine. In Israel, in cities such as Tel Aviv, there is a 250W motor limit for e-bikes. If you have a large diameter motor you're begging to be stopped by the local authorities. Using a small dia. gear hub motor will allow me to use a 350 - 500w motor without drawing attention to myself.

 

[froglips]

The main issue I could foresee is that the brake rotor mount would not hold up to the torque generated by the rear sprocket.

I doubt that would be a problem (running thru the freewheel mount might be).

Would it be advantageous to replace the hub bearings with better quality units?

It won't hurt anything, but they're probably good enough for now. If they become a problem you can always replace them later.

I am opting for a 36v because a seller on eBay offers a LG 36v 4.4ah lithium ion battery with BMS,

There's apparently lots of those under different names/sellers; note that some claim they are one kind of cell with a certain capacity, etc., but others say they are other kinds of cells with different capacities, so until you actually get them and test them under load, I wouldn't make definite plans around their "specs".

If you look around ES for "ebay" there's a number of recent threads discussing variations on these packs.

I will custom build a removable aluminum battery housing that curves/doubles as rear fender/pannier rack frame.

I recommend putting the battery just about anywhere *other* than the rear rack, as it will negatively impact handling there. Even low on the sides around the rear axle would be much better than up above that.

Because the wheel assembly will at times be under load with the power of a gas engine AND a hub motor, is it prudent to go with 12 gauge spokes?

Thinner is better, unless you're using rims specifically designed for the tensions the higher gauges need. Too high a spoke tension (too thick a spoke) will destroy the rim, and too low a tension on the spokes (regardless of gauge) will cause loose and broken spokes.

I'd use 13/14 butted or double-butted spokes, at the thickest. 14/15 would probably work fine.

Eyelets already in the rim are better than washers added in place of them, to keep from creating cracks in the nipple holes and destroying the rim.

Where would I source the spokes and how do you determine the length?

http://www.ebikes.ca/tools/spoke-calc.html

. Would like the motor and controller choice to be futured in the event there is not enough power I can reconfigure the battery to 52v and over volt the motor.

If you think you'll need more power, you don't want to go with a low-power motor, because with a geared hub this will result in overheating and destruction of the motor. There are threads on cooling hub motors that might help, but most of them are about DD not geared, as it is significantly harder to get the heat out of a geared hub due to more layers of stuff heat has to go thru to get out.

You'll also have to make sure your batteries are capable of providing the higher power level to start with, or you'll end up adding more (or better) battery to run the higher power levels.


You can use the simulators at http://ebikes.ca to get an idea of the kind of power needed to do what you're after, though it will take a bit of reading the instructions and playing with the simulator to get the hang of it.

Appreciate the advice. I am now leaning towards a 500w gear hub motor (The reason stated in previous post)

 

[froglips]

May not have too much in common with what you plan to do, but augidog has a bike set up with both gas power and electric power:

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=75392

That's an interesting build. The discussion goes off on a tangent about regen, a subject i have no interest in as it is not in my plans.

 

[motomech]

You would be better off asking in/searching in the Electric Scooter Motorcycle section.
Over the years, a couple of folks have tried make practical ICE/electric hybirds, usually based on mopeds or scooters. I don't recall anyone has been particular successful in the effort.

 

[dogman dan]

My gut reaction is that you should build a good gasser, or a good electric. Both just doubles the cost, without as much benefit as you might think.

If you go electric, its just as simple as carrying a bit more battery, though that can be expensive compared to the gas. I assure you, very few folks want to ride a bike more than 60-100 miles a day. Its a limitation of ass on bike seat. It might be quite practical to carry a lot of battery and other cargo on a one wheel trailer. Better still for long distance electric rides, a long cargo bike. Just panniers on a sturdy regular bike can carry 60 mile range easy. Two 48v 15 ah packs.

The cheap option, is of course to build a good reliable gasser.

But I have thought about the idea of a gas rear, and electric front hub. The reason not to do it is the vibration of a gasser, more than the noise.

What I really wish you could buy off the shelf, is a 20 pound or less, 300w generator. Smallest I've seen is 800w, and it weighs at least 30 pounds. 30 pounds is just about the top limit of my one wheel trailer. 20 would be better.

 

[froglips]

"...you should build a good gasser."

A good gasser is relative - Gassers suffer from broken chains, tranny belts, a fried clutch, or fowled carb screens to mention just a few of the most common issues that are part of owning this kind of build.

"Both just doubles the cost, without as much benefit as you might think."

I stated in an earlier post that what I deemed to be a plus for a hub motor, an alternative source of power when the situation warranted it. Let me elaborate. There are places in Israel you are not safe being broken down in unfamiliar territory. Cost vs. a safe alternative source of power will allow me to get to a safe place to service the build. Having been a maintenance man in the past I know my way around all manner of vehicles, chainsaws, lawn equipment, winches, outboard motors and anything else that breaks. You can moan or roll up you sleeves and have at it.

"I assure you, very few folks want to ride a bike more than 60-100 miles a day. Its a limitation of ass on bike seat. It might be quite practical to carry a lot of battery and other cargo on a one wheel trailer."

I need the trailer to carry spares and my kit. Thankfully, your mention of a trailer lended itself to speculate that it makes sense to outfit the trailer with a rear wheel assembly that can be interchanged with the rear wheel in the event the hub motor fails in some fashion. It would be a matter of changing out the cassette and the engine drive sprocket and I'm back on the road. I'd have to temporarily lose the trailer until I can procure a new new hub and spokes but a least I'd have something to get me there (There being a researched source of parts in the country.) I could carry an old hub and spokes I have lying around, throw in some spacers and tackle a crude wheel build on the side of the road. Then it's find a shop to true it or find a used wheel assembly on Craigslist and I'm off. I haven't fabricated the trailer yet so I can do a build that can accommodate a rear wheel hub. Then it becomes a failed experiment and I box what's salvageable (Batteries, etc.) and ship it home via slow boat to China. [Edit] Comments on wheel spares and trailer config were spur of the moment speculations. After reading this I made notes to myself for a alternative configs. Like all builds, it's a work in progress...

As for comfort, I'll be fitted with with a back brace, padded cycling shorts for skivvies, gel gloves, a cushy, wide sprung seat mounted on a Cane Creek Thudbuster LT Suspension and a build eventually tweaked with good posture in mind. Serviceable engine vibration mounts makes it bearable. Pace yourself, a stash of Ibuprofen and it becomes a manageable situation.

Appreciate your advice.

 

[amberwolf]

I could carry an old hub and spokes I have lying around, throw in some spacers and tackle a crude wheel build on the side of the road. Then it's find a shop to true it or find a used wheel assembly on Craigslist and I'm off.

FWIW, with a bit of practice (taking apart and putting back together an old "junk" wheel), it'll only take about 30-60 minutes to tension and true a wheel. Lots of videos on how to do it, or text sites if you prefer those (even some threads here on ES). Can be done with it in the frame, couple of zipties on teh stays as "gauges".

 

[wturber]

I am opting for a 36v because a seller on eBay offers a LG 36v 4.4ah lithium ion battery with BMS,

There's apparently lots of those under different names/sellers; note that some claim they are one kind of cell with a certain capacity, etc., but others say they are other kinds of cells with different capacities, so until you actually get them and test them under load, I wouldn't make definite plans around their "specs".

If you look around ES for "ebay" there's a number of recent threads discussing variations on these packs.

The link he posted is to the same seller I purchased my batteries from. This guy's packs have been tested quite a few times. The details are well known. Here's my discharge test at right around the standard discharge rate.


They are not 4400mah packs though. They are nominally 4300mah and may test slight more or less. If you charge for longevity at 4.1 volts or so, and don't fully discharge them, then the real world usable capacity is probably more like 4000mah or less.

These LG MF1 cells used have a standard discharge of .2c or 430ma. At 2P for one pack, that's 860ma. For five packs in parallel, that's 4.3 amps or around 150 watts at 36volts. However, the LG spec sheet also gives a Max discharge of 10A. And at 2P and 5 packs, that's 100A or 3600 watts.

I've been routinely been pulling 1250 watts peak from groups of either five or seven of these packs wired in parallel. I guessing my typical draw ranges from between 150 and 500 watts or between four and 14 amps. The batteries aren't even getting noticeably warm. They seem to always be at ambient temperature.

The batteries are a good value. The biggest knock I'd put on them is that their energy to weight and size ratios aren't that great compared to the alternatives. If weight and size are important factors, (and with the extra weight of an ICE motor and fuel it probably would be), then they may not be the best option given the availability of 18650 cells that hold 3000mah I think some LiPo packs will store more energy with less weight.

 

[fechter]

I would suggest one of the geared hub motors that has a freewheel clutch. If you use a direct drive hub, it will act like a generator when pushed by the gas engine. If the gas engine goes faster than the no-load speed of the electric motor, it will start regenerating and charge the batteries. Whether you want it to or not. If you disconnect the battery, it won't charge anymore, but the voltage on the controller could get destructively high. You could disconnect the motor phase wires (any 2) and it wouldn't be a problem, but that would be a pain.

Seems like your rear wheel would need two freewheels, one for the pedals and one for the gas engine. I have seen setups like this, but not sure how they did it.

 

[augidog]

....

 

[froglips]

I could carry an old hub and spokes I have lying around, throw in some spacers and tackle a crude wheel build on the side of the road. Then it's find a shop to true it or find a used wheel assembly on Craigslist and I'm off.

FWIW, with a bit of practice (taking apart and putting back together an old "junk" wheel), it'll only take about 30-60 minutes to tension and true a wheel. Lots of videos on how to do it, or text sites if you prefer those (even some threads here on ES). Can be done with it in the frame, couple of zipties on teh stays as "gauges".

Quite right. If that's the fallback plan and I didn't take the time to know how to do it beforehand (I plan on building my own wheel assemblies BUT will still take them to a shop to have them tension them with their equipment - There is a shop I work with and you don't milk them for info/advice without throwing them some business. Fair is fair.) I would deserve what follows. The only thing I have done to date is practice changing tires/tubes on the rim I plan on using. That was done to insure the tire/tube combo I chose for the build could be tackled curbside.

 

[froglips]

I am opting for a 36v because a seller on eBay offers a LG 36v 4.4ah lithium ion battery with BMS,

There's apparently lots of those under different names/sellers; note that some claim they are one kind of cell with a certain capacity, etc., but others say they are other kinds of cells with different capacities, so until you actually get them and test them under load, I wouldn't make definite plans around their "specs".

If you look around ES for "ebay" there's a number of recent threads discussing variations on these packs.

The link he posted is to the same seller I purchased my batteries from. This guy's packs have been tested quite a few times. The details are well known. Here's my discharge test at right around the standard discharge rate.


They are not 4400mah packs though. They are nominally 4300mah and may test slight more or less. If you charge for longevity at 4.1 volts or so, and don't fully discharge them, then the real world usable capacity is probably more like 4000mah or less.

These LG MF1 cells used have a standard discharge of .2c or 430ma. At 2P for one pack, that's 860ma. For five packs in parallel, that's 4.3 amps or around 150 watts at 36volts. However, the LG spec sheet also gives a Max discharge of 10A. And at 2P and 5 packs, that's 100A or 3600 watts.

I've been routinely been pulling 1250 watts peak from groups of either five or seven of these packs wired in parallel. I guessing my typical draw ranges from between 150 and 500 watts or between four and 14 amps. The batteries aren't even getting noticeably warm. They seem to always be at ambient temperature.

The batteries are a good value. The biggest knock I'd put on them is that their energy to weight and size ratios aren't that great compared to the alternatives. If weight and size are important factors, (and with the extra weight of an ICE motor and fuel it probably would be), then they may not be the best option given the availability of 18650 cells that hold 3000mah I think some LiPo packs will store more energy with less weight.

Appreciate the post and the link provided. The hub motor is not going to be the main mode of power. My plan is to purchase the ten pack at $250 and take the 5 that test out as having the lowest charged capacity rating for tweaking the build and taking the best - fresh and cycle free - of them on the trip. If it were the main power source I'd lean more towards the LiPo packs than good value for the buck.

 

[froglips]

I would suggest one of the geared hub motors that has a freewheel clutch. If you use a direct drive hub, it will act like a generator when pushed by the gas engine. If the gas engine goes faster than the no-load speed of the electric motor, it will start regenerating and charge the batteries. Whether you want it to or not. If you disconnect the battery, it won't charge anymore, but the voltage on the controller could get destructively high. You could disconnect the motor phase wires (any 2) and it wouldn't be a problem, but that would be a pain.

Seems like your rear wheel would need two freewheels, one for the pedals and one for the gas engine. I have seen setups like this, but not sure how they did it.

The how and what is needed to pull this off is the advice I am looking for. I need a freewheel clutch gear hub motor. Thanks. I need the power on demand so disconnecting anything is off the table. Direct drive is off the table because the size would draw attention. If someone were to use a direct drive installing a air-cooled, heat dissipating heat sink like that found to dissipate excess power generated by a car's alternator might do the trick.

You have see the two freewheel setup - Unless I can source how it was done I'm sunk. The only alternative is a front hub motor and That I'm not keen on because of the way it would effect the suspension travel.

 

[froglips]

My "manual" parallel tri-brid: https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=75392 it works!


I spread the weight out, gas rear / electric (brushed) front / battery in frame, and am very pleased, it's the heaviest the bike's ever been but she still handles great. If you bought the proper front (brushless) hub / controller combination, you could have an "automatic" parallel tri-brid. Have fun with your project.

By the way, my STRONG opinion is that, when motorized, 12G spokes is a minimum safety requirement. if you want serious wheels, see my friend in Auburn Washington thewheelmaster.com

staton-inc.com has lots of hub offerings, and tons of other helpful DIY mechanical components.

My front suspension isn't conducive to a front hub motor. I'm getting conflicting advice about what spoke gauge to use. Too heavy a gauge and the tension will tear the rim apart. The guy at the bike shop said go with double-butted but since he has no experience with motorized wheel assemblies and how they respond to loading was unsure about what spoke gauge to use. I've watched Terry Blow's vids but he off the grid for now. I'll take your advice and contact the folks at thewheelmaster.com to see what they have to say.

The more I look into the goals of the build and the advice I have received I am starting to think of reappraising my approach and need to look into a merits of a motorized push trailer to meet my needs. Perhaps the goal - a duel power supply in a small package - is too ambitious. The goals of the build are by necessity complicated. What drives this approach is twofold 1] Airlines are required to transport mobility aids free of charge with no weight limit and the size limited by the cargo bay opening (attractive, yes?) 2] There are restrictions about transporting Lithium-ion batteries (battery capacity and so on) on an airplane with not restrictions only if the battery is an internal part of the mobility aid. When I had to build specialty manufacturing equipment for my trailer manufacturing business KISS was king. Weight and balancing loads for a bike is a different animal than that of a trailer. Advice given about battery placement earlier in this thread had me look up to see if a aluminum extrusion like I used to manufacture trailers was available in the size and gauge for a cheap and effective battery housing. I sourced a perfect match locally (Most metal tube vendors sell by the foot and for an additional fee will cut to size) and now might have to abandon this solution. An old trick was to fab mock-ups in wood/plywood/whatever (but in this case corrugated cardboard would suffice) to insure everything fits and place your order. I may never use it but it may be a solution for others that were never aware materials like this are an alternative other than housings on eBay or AliExpress. There is merit in isolating the systems - for one, giving myself the option to secret away the trailer and my kit for a local day trip.

 

[fechter]

One option would be to make the drive all electric and use the gas engine only as a generator. This would be much less efficient than driving the bike directly from the gas engine, but it makes building easier. The gas generator could be in a trailer.

I did a mockup with a GX31 years ago, but never actually ran it. The generator could be used as a motor to start the gas engine remotely.

 

[MadRhino]

You could make it simpler, if you need electric power for safety backup only. Carry a light weight friction drive all-in-one unit on your gasser. It won't give you much power, but could have a good range for a relatively small weight and size.

 

[augidog]

....

 

[froglips]

You could make it simpler, if you need electric power for safety backup only. Carry a light weight friction drive all-in-one unit on your gasser. It won't give you much power, but could have a good range for a relatively small weight and size.

If my build's goal was only to provide a safety backup power your suggestion would be one possible solution. One of the stated goals is to augment the gas engine on demand to provide additional power on uphill grades so I can gear the rear chainring to have higher top end cruising speed on level grades. Having the friction drive engaged at all times would add unwanted drag. I picked up on eBay some round disc rare earth Neodymium magnets to fashion a magnetic coupling to drive a 3 phase brushless AC motor to be converted with a 3 phase diode bridge rectifier into a friction free generator to supply power to running lights/possibly charge a cell phone. No alignment/bearing load issues to speak of. All that is needed is to secure one magnetic coupling to an existing rotating source (say the transmission drive sprocket) on the drivetrain and align the other attached to the motor. You'd need a DC power reduction circuit but it beats a hub dynamo dragwize. Throwing it together is on the cheap (top end $15) so it's worth a try.

I'm going to be ruffing it and access to an outlet to recharge the batteries is not guaranteed on any given day. I may be camping in the Golan Heights on one day and staying at a Hostel with an outlet on the Red Sea a week on. Relying on the kindness of strangers is hit and miss but that's what makes it an adventure. I have not run across a build in this configuration and proof of concept would be a feather in the cap of all who lent their voice to the build.

 

[froglips]

One option would be to make the drive all electric and use the gas engine only as a generator. This would be much less efficient than driving the bike directly from the gas engine, but it makes building easier. The gas generator could be in a trailer.

I did a mockup with a GX31 years ago, but never actually ran it. The generator could be used as a motor to start the gas engine remotely.

i actually got as far as you did, a mock up with a GX31, but i went with a 1-wire alternator. the main sticking point is the engine isn't auto-controlled like a larger generator would be, plus it's only good for slightly over one HP or 750W. of course you still need a minimal battery bank for everything to work correctly. i also tried a small 600W genset as a trailer, pretty much too heavy to be worth the limited power.

if i were to want to spend money just for fun, i'd try a quality generator/trailer and use the 110VAC to run a variable-speed AC motor. but, we digress.

froglips, my rear wheel is a sturmey-archer hub, alex rims DM24, and diamond star 10G motorcycle spokes. jim also custom-cut my Golden Eagle drivering to fit the altered spoke geometry, it runs very true. he's good at what he does. i have no doubt this will be the last rear wheel the bike will ever need.

Appreciate the specs on the wheel assembly and will keep it in mind as one option to consider if I go in a different direction. I'll be contacting jim over at thewheelmaster within the week. Thanks [Edit] Talked with Jim's dad this afternoon. Very Helpful.