Chalo
100 TW
Buk___ said:
Yeah, there's no evidence I've uncovered by doing this stuff for 30 years. My opinions are unfounded.
Rear hub bearings falling apart under bike weight and torque
- Thread starter coinmaster
- Start date
Yeah, there's no evidence I've uncovered by doing this stuff for 30 years. My opinions are unfounded.
Chalo said:
Hearsay, conjecture, gut feel nor even first-hand but unrelated knowledge, are not evidence.
Built-to-a-price bikes may be crap as sold, but that doesn't prevent improvement through the addition of new parts.
New e-bike specific parts are going to be better suited and can be projected for a longer life than whatever happens to be fitted to a $100 second-hand bike. No matter how good the quality of the second hand parts was when new, you can have no idea how they have been treated or maintained -- even once you have them in your hands, much less than from a picture on Craig's list -- so you'd still have to replace them.
So then you're down to the frame. The second-hand "quality" frame may have been better when it was new, but again, you can have no idea what state it is in now. A new, low-cost steel frame may be lower quality steel, but it won't have been built at the limits of the material as a "quality" frame will have been. It will have been over-specified to ensure it passes the relevant tests and will be heavier, but that hardly matters for an e-bike build.
Your blanket condemnation of anything from a mass market supplier -- be it based on 1,2, or even 10 bad eggs over 30 years; your refusal to offer anything by way of evidence; and your appeals to (your own) higher authority; make your interventions in threads where you have no intention of offering positive contribution, just smack of trolling.
dustNbone
10 kW
Please. When I was a teenager I took my friends brand new department store MTB for a ride down the street and upon riding over a sewer grate the handlebar stem snapped clean off, leaving the handlebars in my hands but not connected to the bike anymore. I was on a 4 lane arterial road, I could have been killed. The thing literally fell apart under me. I will never ride a "cheap" bike again, let alone own one.
The bike I use now is a 1974 Nishiki touring bike that was bought by my uncle new before I was born, rode for 30 years commuting and for recreation before I got it. I commuted/toured/camped with it for another 10 years or so before I put a 1000W mid drive on it. That's also when I replaced the original 27" wheels with 700c ones so I could have a better tire selection, the original hubs were still immaculate, rims straight as an arrow. The original crank was also pretty mint when I pulled it to install the mid drive, 40 something years later. The plastic grease cups were disintegrating but the grease was still in there. At least I think that was grease.
You can buy a bike like mine off CL for around $300 fully tuned up, take minimal care of it and probably still be riding it hard in 20 years.
The bike I use now is a 1974 Nishiki touring bike that was bought by my uncle new before I was born, rode for 30 years commuting and for recreation before I got it. I commuted/toured/camped with it for another 10 years or so before I put a 1000W mid drive on it. That's also when I replaced the original 27" wheels with 700c ones so I could have a better tire selection, the original hubs were still immaculate, rims straight as an arrow. The original crank was also pretty mint when I pulled it to install the mid drive, 40 something years later. The plastic grease cups were disintegrating but the grease was still in there. At least I think that was grease.
You can buy a bike like mine off CL for around $300 fully tuned up, take minimal care of it and probably still be riding it hard in 20 years.
dustNbone said:
And I know of a Shimano DuraAce HollowTech II crank that sheared.
One swallow does not a summer make.
FWIW, the same thing happened under slightly different circumstances with the Columbia Comfort Bike 2005 that later became DayGlo Avenger. Bike being only a month old, the company replaced the stem under warranty, and I used the bike heavily (for heavy cargo, too, which it wasn't intended for) for years afterward. The only things that failed (that came with it) were abused well beyond their design, or modified by me without me knowing what I was doing. If I hadn't changed to semi-recumbent designs I'd probably still be riding it. (though the frame is now cracked at one of the seatstays from the wya I mounted heavy-duty cargo pod and rack to it, and carrying way more than it was intended to in it)dustNbone said:
So cheap bikes don't necessarily have to be junk.
But they certainly can be: On the flip side, I've gotten quite a few "wally world" bikes via Freecycle, friends, etc., that were actually complete junk, or nearly so, with a few (flawed) gems here and there. Some of them had usable frames, crappy components, some had crappy frames I could bend with my hands, *and* crappy components (some of which broke while being removed from the frame), some had decent components but overly-flexible / soft frames, or just so heavy you could barely lift the bike with one hand (almost all frame weight).
I've also gotten pretty good bikes (including an 80's Nishiki) at Goodwill and other thrift stores for cheap, usually around $20, that usually just need new brake pads, and sometimes tubes and tires.
Mostly, though, I don't buy bikes for what they are as a whole. I buy them (or pick them up from Freecycle/etc), for parts I can use from them; wheels are usually usable, sometimes really good. Most often just need tensioning and truing (rarely already are, except on the occasional good bike like the Nishiki).
markz
100 TW
I wouldnt want to put my trust in a Bicycle Shaped Object from Walmart, not when you motorize it.
Chalo
100 TW
Buk___ said:
I have worked in a bike shop continuously since 2009, and periodically since 1992. Try literally thousands of what you'd characterize as "bad eggs", but what I know as bicycle-shaped objects. I rarely make it through a single day without having to deal with one. If there were happy exceptions, I'd come across one sooner or later. There aren't.
dogman dan
1 PW
Ok, you all disagree. We get it.
Personally, my problem with the lower priced MTB's such as Walmart sells, has been that once I put a motor on one, I ride the shit out of it. What can I say, give me 25 mph, and I'll corner at 25 mph. This causes the aluminum frame to flex side to side more than the usual walbike rider put it through, and since they are usually a fairly thin tube and cheap alloy, they soften up fairly quickly. The cheap components are easy to replace, the shitty frame you are stuck with.
My experience has not be shit like frames or stems breaking, but the frame actually softening up till it wags its tail like a dog. Its fine for the first 2000 miles or so, but after that, the bike just feels rubbery, and high speed wobble happens at 30 mph, then 25 mph, and eventually even slower.
But cheap steel bikes, they at least take a long time to soften up compared to cheap alu. A sturdy beach cruiser may sell for a $150, but the steel frame is stiff enough for how I ride it. The wheels will be garbage, so I replace both immediately with ones that used to be on a $500 to $1000 bike.
I have a bit of a bike junkyard, so most of the time it has one or two decent wheels in it, and piles of nearly new, but garbage wheels off walbikes. I build the junkyard stock by buying partial bikes at the flea market or garage sales for about $20. Often, the frame alone is worth more like $100, and if it has a good wheel, yeah baby! Walbikes I won't pay more than $5 for, unless its one of those sturdy beach cruiser frames.
Personally, my problem with the lower priced MTB's such as Walmart sells, has been that once I put a motor on one, I ride the shit out of it. What can I say, give me 25 mph, and I'll corner at 25 mph. This causes the aluminum frame to flex side to side more than the usual walbike rider put it through, and since they are usually a fairly thin tube and cheap alloy, they soften up fairly quickly. The cheap components are easy to replace, the shitty frame you are stuck with.
My experience has not be shit like frames or stems breaking, but the frame actually softening up till it wags its tail like a dog. Its fine for the first 2000 miles or so, but after that, the bike just feels rubbery, and high speed wobble happens at 30 mph, then 25 mph, and eventually even slower.
But cheap steel bikes, they at least take a long time to soften up compared to cheap alu. A sturdy beach cruiser may sell for a $150, but the steel frame is stiff enough for how I ride it. The wheels will be garbage, so I replace both immediately with ones that used to be on a $500 to $1000 bike.
I have a bit of a bike junkyard, so most of the time it has one or two decent wheels in it, and piles of nearly new, but garbage wheels off walbikes. I build the junkyard stock by buying partial bikes at the flea market or garage sales for about $20. Often, the frame alone is worth more like $100, and if it has a good wheel, yeah baby! Walbikes I won't pay more than $5 for, unless its one of those sturdy beach cruiser frames.
Chalo
100 TW
dogman dan said:
https://www.sheldonbrown.com/brandt/frame-soft.html
What you're feeling is probably parts loosening up (suspension pivots, wheel and crank bearings, spokes, etc.) but not the frame as such. The only thing that makes a frame lose stiffness is cracks or other visible physical damage like flattened or buckled tubes.
Let me try again to explain the problem. He's using a free-wheel hub and a Cyclone motor. When he's in top gear, it puts a massive over-hanging force on the hub from outboard of the bearing, so it twists the hub, which damages the bearing. For a chain-drive or crank-drive, you need a free-hub (cassette hub) because it has an extra outboard bearing to stop the hub from twisting, which will also share the load better (3 bearings instead of 2).
dogman dan
1 PW
I'm sure, a cassette wheel will have many improvements over a 20 buck wheel with cheap hub and likely poorly adjusted bearings.
The wheel you are recommending is the same one I am. I'm just saying replace the whole bike if you can do it for close to the same cost as a brand new high quality rear wheel. then you get 8-9 speeds, better brakes, and a frame that takes much longer to wear out.
Again, we still don't know what the hell his bike is. I certainly hope its not a roadmaster.
The wheel you are recommending is the same one I am. I'm just saying replace the whole bike if you can do it for close to the same cost as a brand new high quality rear wheel. then you get 8-9 speeds, better brakes, and a frame that takes much longer to wear out.
Again, we still don't know what the hell his bike is. I certainly hope its not a roadmaster.
coinmaster
10 W
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Good to know, that's what the bike shop is replacing it with. They are putting some $110 cassette hub wheel on it.
I'm pretty sure my bike is brandless, it just says "29er" on it.
If I were to get a new bike I would probably get a KMX recumbent kit since it makes for a better long distance ebike. I would have to get another motor in that case though since I do need a mountain bike for winter commutes.
coinmaster
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Seems like the only thing that is senseless is your elitism.
markz
100 TW
[youtube]v370MnF9cHc[/youtube]
[youtube]wndVwx74LAg[/youtube]
[youtube]wndVwx74LAg[/youtube]
coinmaster
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The walmart bikes in those videos are complete trash compared to mine, you didn't really think I was riding something like that did you?
dustNbone
10 kW
You rear end self destructed when it was almost brand new. So yes, you were riding a poorly assembled bicycle, similar to the ones in the videos.
He even said in the video that it's the poor attention to assembly that leads to most of the problems with those bikes, not necessarily the quality of the parts themselves.
If your hub had been properly lubricated and adjusted, it's unlikely that it would have failed.
He even said in the video that it's the poor attention to assembly that leads to most of the problems with those bikes, not necessarily the quality of the parts themselves.
If your hub had been properly lubricated and adjusted, it's unlikely that it would have failed.
skeetab5780
1 MW
Ive been riding a walmart bike for a few years now. Im not in denial about them and they are really bad. There have been multiple reports of the wheel and crank bearings failing to spin after only 100 miles of human pedal assist...now think about adding 50 plus more pounds to the bike and triple the speeds and that 100 miles is down to about 10 miles. Nevermind half the employees that build the bikes have no idea how to properly tighten or grease things.
I ride a Genesis v2100 that i absolutely love, but literally the only stock part left on the entire bike is the frame. Not only did i replace all the parts because they sucked, but because they were extremely heavy steel and bearings are junk.
I also have a Kent 700c fixie that is awful. The bottom bracket was cross threaded in sideways and didnt spin one revolution on its own, brakes didnt stop on the rims, tires go flat every week for no reason, front fork is slightly bent, rims are not true and the entire bike is already rusty within 1 year of purchase and i put it in basement all winter. I bought this along with three other walmart bikes so the family could all ride, the kids are happy with thier cheap bikes they dont seem to be as horrible or they arent as picky as me.
I ride a Genesis v2100 that i absolutely love, but literally the only stock part left on the entire bike is the frame. Not only did i replace all the parts because they sucked, but because they were extremely heavy steel and bearings are junk.
I also have a Kent 700c fixie that is awful. The bottom bracket was cross threaded in sideways and didnt spin one revolution on its own, brakes didnt stop on the rims, tires go flat every week for no reason, front fork is slightly bent, rims are not true and the entire bike is already rusty within 1 year of purchase and i put it in basement all winter. I bought this along with three other walmart bikes so the family could all ride, the kids are happy with thier cheap bikes they dont seem to be as horrible or they arent as picky as me.
coinmaster
10 W
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I said I had it for years. It was also sitting outside uncovered for the last year since I recently moved and forgot about it.
The bikes in those videos are toys r us quality. I can't tell the difference between my bike and any other "high quality" bike, which is why I was not keen on buying a new one. Especially when I am replacing all the good bits for ebike specific parts in either scenario.
markz
100 TW
I like old Rocky Mountain or Specialized bicycles in the days of LX, DX.
Chalo
100 TW
"E-bike specific parts", you keep saying. The only e-bike specific parts are electric motors or hyped crap. There are speed and load rated tires. There are special brake pads. But we're not discussing those things. We're talking about things that are not suited to any kind of cycling versus things that are.
dogman dan
1 PW
Well, I suspect a good bike left out in the rain for a year could have some problems too.
Cant tell the difference = wouldn't know the difference if you rode the wheel with the bearings loose as hell. Which indeed, would ruin a good wheel too.
I humbly suggest you look at an indestructible Honda 125.
Cant tell the difference = wouldn't know the difference if you rode the wheel with the bearings loose as hell. Which indeed, would ruin a good wheel too.
I humbly suggest you look at an indestructible Honda 125.
999zip999
100 TW
Where do you live ?
coinmaster
10 W
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I dunno is https://www.sram.com/sram/mountain/family/ex1#sm.0001r8lqfb4t8ejzxze2iii1vj9l4 hyped?
I didn't know until I kept hearing strange sounds under torque. I rode that way for a few days until I looked around and realized the back wheel was able to move around too much. I didn't know what I was looking at until bike shop said bearings are shot.
The pile of dead stalkers in my basement is reaching capacity.
