Replica ebike - 1881

Hallo,

ich suche Detailbilder von dem Coventry Lever Tricycle wie es Trouvet verwendete (Kurbelwelle, Lager Kurbelwelle, Lenkkopflager).
Wer kann mir helfen?

Danke im Voraus.

Gruß

Franz


Hello,

I am looking for detailed pictures of the Coventry Lever Tricycle as Trouvet used (crankshaft, crankshaft bearings, steering head bearings).
Who can help me?

Thanks in advance.

greeting

Franz
 
Hallo Franz

Ich habe noch nie Bilder mit diesem Grad an Details zu erkennen. Die einzige Coventry Lever Tricycle ich kenne, ist (scheinbar) in der Londoner UK Science Museum:
http://objectwiki.sciencemuseum.org...seum.org.uk/wiki/Coventry_Lever_Tricycle.html

...but I would expect that any bicycle or tricycle built in 1876 by Haynes & Jefferies would have used the same bearings and other common components...

Perhaps the Science Museum would grant you access to their collections to take some pictures...
http://www.sciencemuseum.org.uk/about_us/contact_us.aspx

Do you know if any of the early Trouve motors ended up in any museums in Germany?

Lock
 
Hello,
I think it's different:
P1040871zz.jpg

752px-Im1932Bart-Page20z.jpg

Coventry_Lever_Tricycle_1876big z.jpg

I do not know if one of the early Trouve engines in museums in Germany.

Franz
 
Hallo,
wo der Motor war am Dreirad Trouvé positioniert?
Franz

Paar von Referenzen Franz ...
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=25295&start=61
M. Trouvé hatte einen seiner Motoren unter der Achse des Rades, die die Bewegung durch eine Vaucanson Kette mitgeteilt.

Und der einzige Augenzeugenbericht, wie weit ich weiß:
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=25295&start=79
"... platziert unter der Achse, zwei kleine Trouvé Motoren so groß wie deine Faust, die ihre Bewegung durch zwei Vaucanson Ketten übertragen, wirken auf zwei Ritzeln fixiert auf die Achse der großen Antriebsrad.
*************************************
Hinter dem Sitz und unter der Achse, eine Holzkiste, enthielt sechs sekundären Zellen sehr ähnlich zu denen von Gaston Plante betätigt die Motoren. "

Deshalb glaube ich, Gustave fügte die Plattform, um das Trike, um den Akku / Karton zu halten, und ich erwarte, seine Motoren an die Plattform wurden entweder von oben oder unten angebracht ist, verbunden mit der Radachse durch zwei Ketten, die auf zwei Gänge hinzugefügt, um das Rad Achse ...

Schloss
***************************
fhaag said:
Hello,
where the engine was positioned at the Tricycle Trouvé?
Franz

Couple of references Franz...
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=25295&start=61
M.Trouvé had one of his motors below the axle of the wheel which communicated the movement through a Vaucanson chain.

And the only eye-witness account as far as I know:
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=25295&start=79
"...placed below the axle, two small Trouvé motors as big as your fist, which transfer their movement through two Vaucanson chains, acting on two sprockets fixed to the axle of the large driving wheel.

Behind the seat and below the axle, a wooden box, contained six secondary cells quite similar to those of Gaston Plante actuated the motors."

So I believe Gustave added the platform to the trike to hold the battery pack/box, and I expect his motors were attached to the platform either on top or underneath, connected to the wheel axle by two chains operating on two sprockets added to the wheel axle...

Lock
 
Hi Lock,

The details of the engine are different:
- a motor
- two motors
- An engine with two rotors

What is your opinion?

fhaag
 
Hallo fhaag

Gustave ging zu mehreren hundert Motoren zu bauen, aber ich habe noch nicht von einem überlebenden Beispiel gehört. Ich glaube, im Jahre 1881 wurde er mit beiden ein und zwei Rotor-Motoren experimentieren. Verschiedene Illustrationen für seine Außenbordmotoren zeigen beide eins und zwei. Viele Details von Beobachtern, die nicht mit der Technik vertraut (Terminologien wurden noch in der Entwicklung) kommen, und versuchten, die Dinge in Bezug auf andere Technologien wie Dampf beziehen (Kupfer-Spulen wurden um "Spulen" Wunde als Nähgarn gewickelt ist.)

Aber auf dem Dreirad Ich glaube, Gustave war mit seinem Zwillingsbruder Rotormotor, dass einige als "zwei Motoren" beschrieben. Er schien es nicht zu einer Drehzahlregelung haben und war mit Schneid-Stromversorgung für einen Rotor Denken dieser würde ihm zwei Geschwindigkeiten zu experimentieren ... langsam und langsamer:)

Dieses Bild, das Sie geschrieben wird sehr interessant!
file.php


Dies zeigt eine Spindel dreht in Steckdosen! Nicht die Rollen-oder Kugellager denken wir heute. Dies ist sehr ähnlich zu dem, was ich Schluss über das "Lager", dass Gustage in seiner Motoren mit war!
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/v...com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=25295&start=55

Where was this picture taken please? Any details about the date and manufacturer of the tricycle?

Lock
 
Wo wurde dieses Bild aufgenommen bitte? Alle Details über das Datum und die Hersteller von dem Dreirad?

Das Foto wurde auf der Veterama 2011, Mannheim, Deutschland aufgenommen.
Das Fahrzeug stand hier zum Verkauf (ca. 16.000,- €)
Weitere Fotos kann ich per E-Mail schicken.
Meine E-Mail Adresse findest du auf meiner Homepage: http://www.franz-haag.de

fhaag


The photo was taken at the Veterama 2011, Mannheim, Germany.
The car was for sale here (about 16.000, - €)
More photos can I send e-mail.
My e-mail address can be found on my homepage: http://www.franz-haag.de

fhaag
 
Danke für die pics fhaag!

Das Fahrrad bei Veterama 2011 könnte von etwa 1879, so das dritte Jahr der Produktion. Die beiden seitlichen Räder 24 Zoll im ersten Jahr wurden aber bis 20 Zoll in späteren Jahren reduziert und Sie können sehen, wie für Jahr ein Fahrrad der horizontalen Balken / Rahmen, dass die Räder verbindet, ist gerade dann in späteren Jahren einer Kurve hatte an beiden Enden zur Aufnahme der kleineren Räder.

Aus dem Buch Zyklen und Radsport von Harry Hewitt Griffin, LC Davidson 1890:
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=25295&start=37
... auf der rechten Seite, zwei 20-Zoll-Rädern durch ein langes Stahlrohr ...

Während die Londoner Science Museum sagt:
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=25295&start=38
... der Fa. Haynes & Jefferies am 1. Juli 1878 die Front und wieder kleine Räder 24 Zoll Durchmesser.


Das Imperial War Museum beschrieben ihr Fahrrad wie etwa 1884:
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=25295&start=30
Eines der ersten dieser neuen Designs war James Starley der Coventry Lever Dreirad von 1876, die seine patentierte Tangente Speichen eingebaut. Ein Jahr später ersetzte er den Hebel-Laufwerk mit einer endlosen Kette, und die Coventry Rotary geboren wurde. Ein weiteres Patent im Jahre 1877 für ein Differentialgetriebe, die in seine Salvo Quadricycle aufgenommen wurde, konnten die Antriebsräder ein Dreirad mit unterschiedlichen Geschwindigkeiten drehen bei Kurvenfahrt.

Obwohl Rudge übernahm Herstellung der Coventry Rotary aus Starley & Sutton aus dem Jahr 1885 wurde der Name in Rudge Kataloge bis Produktion eingestellt im Jahr 1892 beibehalten.

Dieses Beispiel stammt aus circa 1884, hat sich von einer privaten Sammlung des Museums gekommen und scheint in gutem Zustand sein. Es hat einen 48 "Antriebsrad mit 20" drehbaren Rädern und ist mit einem Middlemores Type M Ledersattel, Steigbügel Lenkung Ratschengriff, offene Gliederkette, die linke Hand Band Bremshebel und Montage Schritt auf der rechten Seite angebracht.


Der Frühling und die Unterstützung für den Sattel des Fahrrads im Imperial War Museum sehen ziemlich einfach:
file.php


Während das Motorrad bei Veterama 2011 hatten Sitz und Feder, die sehr ähnlich zu dem Rad in die Davis California Bike Museum, dass sie sagen, ist 1879 aussehen ...
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=25295&start=32


Wieder aus dem Buch Zyklen und Radsport von Harry Hewitt Griffin, LC Davidson
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=25295&start=32
Anfang 1877, dachte Starley es Spielraum für ein Dreirad, und auffällig auf insgesamt ursprünglichen Linien, erzeugt durch Haynes und Jefferies, was als Coventry Lever Tricycle bekannt war. Wir hatten das Glück, werden in Coventry im Januar dieses Jahres, kurz nachdem die experimentelle Maschine abgeschlossen war.
Sie illustriert das Niveau Fahrrad als:
file.php


Und die Haynes und Jefferis Werbung von 5. Juli 1877
file.php


Beide zeigen Pinnensteuerung aber diese Bilder können vom Original Patent Zeichnungen gekommen sind und vielleicht fast keine Trikes wurden mit dem Pinnensteuerung produziert, aber Sie können die gerade Seite bar zu sehen, die 24 Zoll-Räder unterzubringen.

Dass man Holzschnitt Gustage auf dem Trike scheint aus dem Buch "Physique et Chimie populaires" Band 2, von Alexis Clerc, 1881-1883 gekommen sind:
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=25295&start=61

... Und es sieht ganz so aus wie eine gerade Stange und die Proportionen dargestellt aussehen wie 24-Zoll-Räder. So meine Vermutung, war der Veterama 2011 um 2 Jahre jünger als Gustaves Trike. Beachten Sie auch die ersten rotarys der Kette hatte in der Mitte des Trike zwischen den Pedalen, aber die Kette war bald an der Seite neben dem Antriebsrad bewegt, als auf diese Weise die Kette war weniger wahrscheinlich, dass die Damen Röcke zu fangen!

Schloss
******************************************************
Thank you for the pics fhaag!

The bike at Veterama 2011 might be from about 1879, so year three of production. The two side wheels were 24 inches in year one but were reduced to 20 inches in later years and you can see how for year one bikes the horizontal bar/frame that connects the wheels is straight then in later years it had a bend at both ends to accomodate the smaller wheels.

From the book Cycles and cycling by Harry Hewitt Griffin, L. C. Davidson 1890:
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=25295&start=37
...on the right, two 20-inch wheels connected by a long steel tube...

While the London Science Museum says:
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=25295&start=38purchased
...from Messrs. Haynes & Jefferies on 1st July, 1878 the front and back small wheels being 24 in. diam.


The Imperial War Museum described their bike as approximately 1884:
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=25295&start=30
One of the first of these new designs was James Starley's Coventry Lever tricycle of 1876, which incorporated his patented tangent spokes. A year later, he replaced the lever drive with a continuous chain, and the Coventry Rotary was born. A further patent in 1877 for a differential gear, which was incorporated into his Salvo Quadricycle, allowed the driving wheels of a tricycle to turn at different speeds when cornering.

Although Rudge took over manufacture of the Coventry Rotary from Starley & Sutton from 1885, the name was retained in Rudge catalogues up until production ceased in 1892.

This example, dating from circa 1884, has come from a private museum collection and appears to be in good condition. It has a 48" driving wheel with 20" turning wheels and is fitted with a Middlemores Type M leather saddle, stirrup steering ratchet handle, open link chain, left hand band brake lever and mounting step to the right side.


The spring and support for the saddle of the bike at the Imperial War Museum look rather simple:
file.php


While the bike at Veterama 2011 had a seat and spring that look very similar to the bike in the Davis California Bike Museum that they say is 1879...
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=25295&start=32


Again from the book Cycles and cycling by Harry Hewitt Griffin, L. C. Davidson
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=25295&start=32
Early in 1877, Starley thought there was scope for a tricycle, and, striking out on altogether original lines, produced, through Haynes and Jefferies, what was known as the Coventry Lever Tricycle. We had the good fortune to be in Coventry in the January of that year, just after the experimental machine had been completed.
They illustrated the level bike as:
file.php


And the Haynes and Jefferis advertisement from July 5, 1877
file.php


Both show tiller steering but these images may have come from the original patent drawings and maybe almost no trikes were produced with the tiller steering, but you can see the straight side bar to accomodate the 24 inch wheels.

That one woodcut of Gustage on the trike appears to have come from the book "Physique et chimie populaires" Volume 2, by Alexis Clerc, 1881-1883:
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=25295&start=61

...and it looks very much like a straight bar and the proportions illustrated look like 24 inch wheels. So my guess, the Veterama 2011 was about two years newer than Gustaves trike. Note too the the first rotarys had the chain in the middle of the trike between the pedals, but the chain was soon moved to the side beside the driving wheel as this way the chain was less likely to catch the ladies skirts!

Lock
 
Hallo fhaag

Das könnte erklären, die Erwähnung einer doppelten Kette!

Ich hatte gedacht, es war nur seine linke untere Bein und Schuh und den linken Hebel Pedal, aber die Position ist falsch, da die Hebel nicht schwingen sich Vorder-und Rückseite, sondern auf und ab. Vielleicht ist der Künstler einfach links sein linkes Bein aus dem Bild?

Gibt es eine Chance Gustave reichte Französisch-Patent für das Fahrzeug (oder Deutsch)? Ich habe nur seine amerikanische Patent für seinen Motor aus dem Jahr 1884 gesehen. Viele Illustrationen für Zeitschriftenartikel um die Zeit genutzt schauen, wie sie von Patenten kopiert wurden (nicht die Holzschnitt von Gustave Reiten, aber andere.)

Wenn Sie eine Kopie des Originals von Clerc ist "Physique et Chimie populaires" Volume 2 für 1881-1883 finden könnte vielleicht das Bild wäre klarer:
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=25295&start=61

Die Londoner Museum berichtet das große Rad mit 50 Zoll im Durchmesser. Am 12KMH, nur 50 min. Er würde eine große Reduktion nötig haben!

Lock
**************************************

Hello fhaag

That might explain the mention of a double chain!

I had thought it was only his lower left leg and shoe plus the left lever pedal, but the position is wrong as the levers didn't swing front and back but instead up and down. Perhaps the artist simply left his left leg out of the picture?

Is there a chance Gustave filed a French patent for the vehicle (or German)? I have only seen his American patent for his motor from 1884. Many illustrations used for journal articles around the time look like they were copied from patents (not the one woodcut of Gustave riding, but others.)

If you could find an original copy of Clerc's "Physique et chimie populaires" Volume 2 for 1881-1883 perhaps the picture would be clearer:
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=25295&start=61

The London Museum reports the large wheel as 50 inches in diameter. At 12 KMH, only 50 RPM. He would have needed a large reduction!

LocK
 
Lock said:
Das könnte erklären, die Erwähnung einer doppelten Kette!
Hallo Lock,

du hast die gleichen Gedanken wie ich. :D

Ich suche weiter!

Noch eine Frage: kennst du die Drehzahl des Motors?

fhaag
-------------------------------------------------------------
Hi Lock,

you have the same thoughts as me. : D

I continue the search!

One more question: do you know the speed of the engine?

fhaag
 
Lock said:
Wenn Sie eine Kopie des Originals von Clerc ist "Physique et Chimie populaires" Volume 2 für 1881-1883 finden könnte vielleicht das Bild wäre klarer:
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=25295&start=61
LocK

Hallo Lock,

kennst du diesen Link? http://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/bpt6k2027516/f1.image
Auf Seite 370 befindet sich das Bild.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hi Lock,

do you know this link? http://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/bpt6k2027516/f1.image
On page 370 there is the drawing.

fhaag
 
fhaag said:
Noch eine Frage: kennst du die Drehzahl des Motors?

Von hier aus:
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=25295&start=65
Ein Artikel von Engineering in Scientific American, 15. Oktober 1881 nachgedruckt. Es zeigt einige der Daten und Ergebnisse, dass Gaston Tissandier wurde von seinem Prototyp Ballon immer auf der 1881 Ausstellung ...
Ein Trouve Motor der Siemens-Typ mit einem Gewicht von knapp 8 Unzen wurde in den unteren Teil des Ballons befestigt und mit einem Doppel-Blatt Schraube von 18 Zoll Durchmesser. Mit Hilfe eines Plante Sekundärbatterie mit einem Gewicht von knapp 3 Pfund, wurde die Schraube auf der Höhe von 6 1 / 2 Umdrehungen pro Sekunde ...

file.php



Und mehr von Tissandier hier:
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=25295&start=77
Nach diesen ersten Tests habe ich die Arbeit der kleinen Trouvé Dynamo-Elektromotor produziert gemessen. Früher habe ich die einfachste Methode, um Gewichte zu heben direkt an den Motor. Diese Experimente wurden mit Hilfe der MEHospitalier durchgeführt. Wir angeschlossenen Motor mit ein sekundäres Element, dann zwei Elemente in Spannung und variierten wir sukzessive Geschwindigkeiten, erhöht oder verringert den Wert des Gewichts angehoben. Der kleine Motor, der wiederum wiegt 220 Gramm. Produzierte unter den Bedingungen der maximalen Arbeit, 90 grammetres mit einem einzigen Element und einer Geschwindigkeit von 5 Umdrehungen pro Sekunde. Mit zwei Elemente in Spannung und einer Geschwindigkeit von 12 Umdrehungen pro Sekunde, erreicht das Werk 420 grammetres; mit drei Elementen erreichte etwa 1 kilogrammetre.

Mit zwei Elemente in Spannung, wenn die Geschwindigkeit sinkt auf 5 oder 6 Umdrehungen pro Sekunde, ist das Werk mehr als 278 grammetres, wenn die Geschwindigkeit größer ist als die entsprechend der maximalen Höhe von, sagen wir, 14 Umdrehungen pro Sekunde, ist die Arbeit mehr als 375 grammetres.

Was Tissandier versäumt zu erwähnen ist, ob er die Berichterstattung Rotor RPMs oder Abtriebswelle RPMs nach der Untersetzung, aber ich nehme an, er wurde auf die Abtriebswelle bezogen.

In der nächsten Botschaft, die ich versuchte zu spielen, um mit möglichst RPM / Reduzierung Zahlen zu ...
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=25295&start=78

Ich erwarte, dass für Tissandiers' Luft Propeller und Gustaves Außenbordmotor auf dem Boot diese Requisiten wurden bei sehr viel höheren RPMs als das, was Gustave benötigt für die endgültige RPMs für das Dreirad Rad / Achswelle drehen.

Es scheint wahrscheinlich, dass Gustave war mit vielen verschiedenen Kombinationen von Motor Topographie und Kürzungen (Zahnräder und Ritzel / Kette.) Keine Garantie, dass das Dreirad das gleiche wurde im April ausgerichtet, wie es, wenn er zeigte off außerhalb der Exposition noch im selben Jahr wurde beim Experimentieren! Der Motor, Reduktion und Akku könnte überall in diesem Sommer verändert haben!

Lock

*****************************************

From here:
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=25295&start=65
An article from Engineering reprinted in Scientific American, October 15, 1881. It details some of the specs and results that Gaston Tissandier was getting from his prototype balloon at the 1881 Exposition...
A Trouve motor of the Siemens type weighing nearly 8 ounces was fixed to the lower part of the balloon and connected to a double-bladed screw of 18 inches diameter. With the aid of a Plante secondary battery weighing nearly 3 pounds, the screw was driven at the rate of 6 1/2 turns per second...

file.php



And more from Tissandier here:
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=25295&start=77
After these first tests, I have measured the work produced by the little Trouvé dynamo-electric motor. I used the simplest method, by lifting weights directly to the motor. These experiments were performed with the assistance of M.E.Hospitalier. We connected the motor with a secondary element, then two elements in tension and we varied successively speeds, increasing or decreasing the value of weight lifted. The small engine, which, again, weighs 220 grams., produced under conditions of maximum work, 90 grammetres with a single element and a speed of 5 revolutions per second. With two elements in tension and a speed of 12 revolutions per second, the work reached 420 grammetres; with three elements it reached about 1 kilogrammetre.

With two elements in tension, if the speed drops to 5 or 6 turns per second, the work is more than 278 grammetres; if the speed is greater than that corresponding to the maximum level of, say, 14 revolutions per second, the work is more than 375 grammetres.

What Tissandier fails to mention is whether he was reporting rotor RPMs or output shaft RPMs after the gear reduction but I assume he was referring to the output shaft.

In the next message I was trying to play around with possible RPM/reduction numbers too...
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=25295&start=78

I expect that for Tissandiers' air propellers and Gustaves outboard motor on the boat these props were spinning at much higher RPMs than what Gustave needed for final RPMs for the tricycle wheel/axle shaft.

It seems likely that Gustave was experimenting with many different combinations of motor topography and reductions (gears and sprockets/chain.) No guarantee that the tricycle was geared the same in April as it was when he was showing off outside the Exposition later that year! The motor, reduction and battery could all have changed over that summer!

Lock
 
Earlier I found an article from La Nature, reprinted in Scientific American 1881 July 9 that described Gustaves boat and motor he was using just seven weeks after putting his electric trike on the road:
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=25295&start=64

Just found the original article in La Nature, June 11, 1881. Link in Google Books:
http://books.google.ca/books?id=iXY...chez m.trouve 1881&pg=PA19#v=onepage&q&f=true

What Scientific American failed to note was that the original article was written by Gaston Tissandier. Turns out the Scientific American piece was also greatly abridged. Here is the original article from La Nature, badly translated from the original French:
ELECTRIC BOAT

MR G.TROUVÉ (1)
(1) We have received several letters from readers who ask about the new electric boat and how to see it work. This notice answers the first question about the second, we will answer as announcing that Mr. Trouvé has been authorized to experiment on the lower lake in the Bois de Boulogne, and that these experiences will be held on 12 June in the afternoon.

M.G.Trouvé, the skilled electrician whose name is well known to our readers, has recently built a small electric motor arranged to be specially adapted to a canoe. He was kind enough to invite us to take part in the first electrical navigation experiment, executed in Paris, May 26, 1881, we hasten to explain these interesting attempts, which have aroused public curiosity in recent weeks, and describe the processes that were used to execute them.

The electric motor built by Mr.Trouvé consists of a bobbin of the Siemens type (2), using a transmission made initially using a simple rope (Fig. 1), and soon through a Vaucanson and Galle chains, this bobbin drives a propeller with three blades in the middle of a suitable sheet metal hollow rudder, as shown in our engraving (Fig. 1). The electric motor itself is attached to the top of the rudder, so that it follows in its movements the same time as the propeller.

(2) In a note recently presented at the Academy of Sciences, M.Trouvé said to have increased the effectiveness of the Siemens bobbin by modifying it as follows: the pole faces, rather than portions of a cylinder whose axis coincides with that of the system are shaped snail-like, so that they approach gradually turning their surfaces from those magnets, until the posterior escapes the pole of the magnet. The action of repulsion begins, so that dead spots are virtually eliminated.

M.Trouvé said that this improvement was demonstrated by a simple experiment. He built two Siemens bobbins of the same diameter, same length and same winding, only one of which had been amended in the manner indicated, they were successively used as a substitute to each other in an electric motor, and using the same battery with the modified bobbin an increase of work was realized.

Readers wishing to have more details on this can be made to the Records of meetings of the Academy of Sciences.



M.Trouvé also builds motors with two bobbins coupled, as used by the boat in this experiment.

This motor with its accessories weighs no more than 5 kg. It is placed in the back of an elegant little canoe, le Téléphone, which is 5.5m long and 1.2m wide and weighs 80 kg. In the middle of the canoe are placed two potassium bichromate batteries, six cells each and the total weight of 24 lbs.

M.Trouvé uses two batteries, because batteries are thus more manageable. These two batteries have the added advantage that they can be used separately or simultaneously. During the night, move with one battery and light up electrically with each other. The batteries are connected to the motor via two cords at the same time the wire covers and guide ropes to operate the rudder (Fig. 2). These cords are provided with two handles, which have switches that allow current to pass or intercept it at will.

The electric motor of the boat is completely independent and can be adapted to any boat. M.Trouvé placed the motor on the rudder, so as not to damage the boat he operates, and to leave open the possibility of using both oars as well as electricity.

The ingenious builder, before adopting as a means of transmission the Vaucanson and Galle chains, has experimented with different modes of transmission, by gears, worms and friction and introduced us to the summary of his essays which we reproduce.

The gear transmission angle, gives good results, but these bodies require too much precision and require too much care to avoid shocks almost inevitable. In addition, sea grass, tree branches, sand, mud, are all obstacles to their effective functioning.

Transmission worm is excellent and perhaps the best, if the mechanism operating in the air as it would be easy to have a good greasing. But the water is quite different, especially if water sea grasses, branches, sand and mud are as annoying obstacles with the gears. However, under exceptional purity of the water on the surface which you sail.

M.Trouvé employment in conjunction with other systèmes. Le friction system gave M.Trouvé the best performance, but in the application, it presented some difficulties in several experiments, its operation has not always been perfect for a minor forces.

Trouve_boat_1881May26rudder.jpg
Fig. 1. The electric motor of the boat M.G.Trouvé with the rudder and propeller. (Figure made from the first model with one bobbin.)


Vaucanson chain and Galle chain are the two bodies for the experimenter that best met all needs, although the yield is slightly lower than other systems. This inferiority is largely compensated by the regularity of operation and robustness of the system.

In the first experiment of May 26, M.Trouvé and I sat in the boat, which easily followed the course of the Seine on two different occasions to the Pont Royal and then down the course of the Seine to the Pont de la Concorde. Le Téléphone has a navigation run that lasted about forty-five minutes.

The experiment was repeated that evening by MM.Trouvé, W. of Fonvielle and Schlesinger, but it was carried out in a much more accurate on May 31 at 9:00 am, in the presence of MM. G. Berger, commissioner general of l'Exposition universelle d'électricité, Antoine Breguet, the learned director of la Revue scientifique, Lartigue, Edward Hospital, Fricéro, Russian naval officer, and a few other people, including my brother and I. On six separate occasions, le Téléphone, containing three persons, easily ascended the course of the Seine, for a distance of 200 meters, exactly measured from the pier of the steamer le Touriste, to the cold baths at the Pont Royal. We found that the boat went up the current with a speed of 1 meter per second, and came down with a speed of 2.5m. The current of the Seine, not far from the shore, at about a speed of 20 centimeters per second.

New trials were held June 2 in the presence of Russian Admiral Likhatchof, scholars and several specialists, and amateur navigators.

These experiments, which offer a genuine interest in the experimental point of view, strongly excited the attention of spectators gathered on the Pont Royal, and it is not without surprise that we saw le Téléphone back later this Seine without oars and without smoke generally inseparable from the steam engine.

We hope that these attempts will be the prelude to larger buildings that will surely run when the power source will be refined as it should be borne in mind that the battery is of little benefit to handle, its assembly is awkward and duration of its operation is limited.

The experiments of M.Trouvé reminded us of the attempts on the Neva in 1839 by Jacobi on navigation by electricity. We read with interest in the wonders of science documents that the illustrious inventor of electroplating had communicated itself to Mr. Louis Figuier. We reproduce here as a historical curiosity.

The voltaic apparatus that provided electricity to the electric motor Jacobi, was a Grove pile, consisting of 64 zinc and platinum cells, which offered a total area of 16 square feet. But when the public experiment was performed as we recall, a second machine just like it, and provided with a battery of the same force, was added to the first, these two machines coupled, gathered their effects by acting on the same shaft. The battery that was used was therefore composed of 128 Grove cells and had a total area of 32 square feet.

View attachment 1
Fig. 2. The boat electrical M. G. Found in the first experiment performed on the Seine in Paris, May 26, 1881.

The power of the electric current was such that a platinum wire 2 meters long, and the size of a piano string, was immediately reddened to its whole extent, by the voltaic current.

The release of nitrous gases from the battery, was so intense that inconvenienced the highest degree operators, and that he forced several times to interrupt the experiment. Spectators on the banks of the Neva attended the event, and were forced to leave their own place, because of the painful and suffocating smell of nitrous gases escaping from the unit and was driven by wind, to the banks of the river.

The boat, which was equipped with paddle wheels and manned by twelve persons, sailed for several hours on the waters of the Neva, against the current, and despite a strong wind.

We see that the Jacobi experience is worthy of note and should be cited as the source of electric navigation.

We hope that further progress soon will crown the efforts of Jacobi's successor, we will add the new boat M.G.Trouvé electrical work to the public for the duration of the Universal Exhibition of Electricity, where we will navigate le Téléphone in a basin which is not less than 18 meters in diameter.

Gaston Tissandier

The pictures reproduced in Scientific American were "fuzzy"... The better picture of le Téléphone here is nice because you can make out the signature as "A.Tissandier" which would have been Albert Tissandier, Gastons brother:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albert_Tissandier

So this is another first hand account of Gustaves work that summer by knowledgeable folks that were leaders in the French scientific community and knew quite a bit about the tech Gustave was playing with.

Alberts drawing is revealing:


This doesn't look like one motor with two "bobbins" but instead two separate motors, perhaps using one chain to "synch" them and a second chain to drive the prop which could explain the frequent mentions of two different styles of chain. No surprise I guess to learn that Gustave had been trying various transmission systems that year.

From the Official Guide to the International Inventions Exhibition in London in 1885:
http://books.google.ca/books?id=4vY...t&resnum=1&ved=0CEUQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q&f=true
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=8099&start=379

Mr.G.Trouvé shows his well-known primary batteries, an electric motor, and models of electric boats, and an electric tricycle.

...might not have been the same trike as in 1881. Might not have been the same batteries or transmission or motor(s), but it's fun to see that four years later Gustave was still promoting ebikes.

Lock
 
Hello fhaag

Just a "heads up" about the motors...

From here:
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=25295&start=81

When "Gaudet" was watching Gustave riding up and down the Rue de Valois, he described the trike as having "...two small Trouve motors as big as your fist..."

Seven weeks later, Albert Tissandier (known as a skilled illustrator and architect etc) draws Gustaves outboard motor like this:
file.php


...with what looks like two separate motors, and much larger than "fist-sized"... I'm thinking they were not the same motors on the boat as on the trike, but that Gustave may have configured two smaller motors on the trike the same way. Possibly one chain linking the the two motors as one.

Lock

*********************************
Hallo fhaag

Nur ein "heads up" über die Motoren ...

Von hier aus:
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=25295&start=81

Wenn "Gaudet" sah Gustave Reiten auf und ab in die Rue de Valois, beschrieb er das Trike als mit "... zwei kleine Trouve Motoren so groß wie deine Faust..."

Sieben Wochen später, zieht Albert Tissandier (bekannt als ein geschickter Illustrator und Architekt usw.) Gustaves Außenbordmotor wie folgt aus:
file.php


... mit dem, was aussieht wie zwei separate Motoren und viel größer als "faustgroßen" ... Ich denke, sie waren nicht die gleichen Motoren auf dem Boot wie auf dem Trike, aber das Gustave können zwei kleinere Motoren auf dem Trike konfiguriert haben die gleiche Weise. Vielleicht eine Kette, die die beiden Motoren als eine.

Lock
 
Hallo Lock,

ich habe meine Idee in deinen Entwurf eingefügt.
Was ist deine Meinung?
View attachment Trouvé Trike 2.pdf

fhaag
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Hi Lock,

I inserted my idea into your design.
What is your opinion?


fhaag
 
Here:
http://www.lightspeedmagazine.com/nonfiction/a-very-brief-history-of-airships/
Dirigible-electric.jpg
In part:
Drawing by E. A. Tilly Airship powered by an electric motor developed by Albert and Gaston Tissandier departing from Auteuil in Paris on October 8, 1883.

Tissandier already mentioned maybe 10 times on the Alt. Planet ES (mostly in this thread), so just found an eyewittless account of an airship (flying by airship currently the subject for discussion elsewhere), drawing at least, so thought I might throw a CC in this thread. And BTW, no carbon was used in the making of this copy, despite the word in part of the description here.
 
"A History of France’s Love Affair With the Electric Bicycle"
http://tmagazine.blogs.nytimes.com/2015/07/21/france-bicycle-history/?_r=0

In part:
The city of Paris is determined to promote the happiness-on-a-bike fantasy. Paris mayor Anne Hidalgo wants to turn the city into the most bike friendly capital in the world. She has a plan to make its historic center “semi-pedestrianized” with a 100-million-euro bike development plan that will double the number of dedicated lanes and will introduce a system of electric bikes.
 
I see a couple from Port Townsend, Washington were filmed in Vancouver's Stanley Park recently when they cycled their "reproduction Victorian-era bikes" around the Seawall. Sure looks like she rides a trike design near identical to the Coventry Rotary that Trouve converted:
[youtube]bqXD34I9JaM[/youtube]
 
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