Reviews and Modifications of ebike model: XB-310Li

[synthrider]

Have a few things to report and maybe a question... First the report:

1) I just killed an almost new 36v10a Little Frog battery by accidentally discharging it completely... like 101% completely. They aren't kidding around when they suggest against this in the manuals. It died in the middle of my ride home, and now refuses to charge properly. I plugged it in a few hours after depleting it. Charger lit red for a baffling 2 hours, then went green. LEDs on battery indicator never turned on and it never worked after that.

I know I can probably fix it myself by testing/replacing a cell or two inside, but I am too busy/unmotivated. I'm in touch with a shop in town about doing it for me.

2) Here's the deal! The reason that happened is because the wiring got frayed inside/near the L-shaped connector that plugs from the charger to the battery, just like with a pair of old headphones. So it looks like its charging, and then there's a gust of wind or something and the connection breaks. I come back a few hours later and the light is green, so I think its good to go, when it ain't. The same thing has happened to my stock charger for the stock 24v10a. It was just annoying at first, but now its cost me a battery. Next charger I'm getting I'm going to reinforce around that connector with electrical tape or maybe even that aluminum tape carpenters use.

3) For some good news, I solved my crappy stock grips and crappy stock handlebar stem in one shot with the following grips: http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=35359. I was having a heck of a time straining my neck and back leaning forward and down to reach the handlebars, plus developing wrist problems, and the Ergon GC3 grips solved the whole business. The neat thing is they have them available in a "Rohloff/Nexus" configuration, where the left is 140 mm and the right is 105 mm (something like that), which means it fit perfectly with the stock throttle, which I'm still using. Neat.

 

[synthrider]

So, here is my question:

I am trying to decide on a replacement 36v10a battery, and I'm considering LiFePO4, even though SergeTruth got one of those from BMS (in 24v10a) and it didn't work, "probably because of too little current."

BTW - I'd probably want to use these w/the stock controller for a while until it burns out or gets shorted in a storm or something... I have a much nicer one on the shelf that I'll hook up at some point... but i'm in no rush since the stock worked surprisingly well with my first 36v10a.

- - -

What do you guys think?

Anything jump out at you in the stats below?

Here are the exact batteries I'm considering. Both sellers have been really helpful and forthcoming.

This is the 24V LiFePO4:
http://www.e-bicycles.eu/en/user_order_comp.php
Can't link to it directly, but its the Li-ion(LiFePO4) battery pack with BMS O-9FC
(about $305 altogether, w/charger, if shipping to US)

• 24V LiFePo4 battery pack inside ABS case
• 24 x LFP26650 cylindrical cells(8S3P) with capacity 3100 mAh
• battery capacity range 9 - 9,3 Ah
• 9 Ah guaranteed minimum capacity at 9A current load
• charging current 9A, maximum discharging current 18A
• self discharging rate: 5% a month
• capacity lost due aging: 2 - 3% per year
• battery cell cycle test: 1000 charging cycles - 90% capacity
• min.calendar life: 5 years

Here's a 36V LiFePO4 with less amperage:
http://www.e-bicycles.eu/en/user_order_comp.php
Li-ion(LiFePO4) battery pack with BMS O-6FC

• 36V LiFePo4 battery pack inside ABS case
• maximum clamping diameter 35 mm
• 24 x LFP26650 cylindrical cells(12S2P) with capacity 3100 mAh
• battery capacity range 6 - 6,2 Ah
• charging current 6A, maximum discharging current 12A
• self discharging rate: 5% a month
• capacity lost due aging: 2 - 3% per year
• battery cell cycle test: 1000 charging cycles - 90% capacity
• min.calendar life: 5 years
• distance range 28 km with highest level of motor assistance(max.power)
• distance range 36 km with middle level of motor assistance
• dimensions 230x130x110 mm, weight 3,1 kg

Here's the other one (leaning towards this right now):
http://evlithium.com/html/Lithium_Battery_Pack/154.html
($295 total, w/charger/shipping)
(not LiFePO4)

• Capacity：（0.2 C5A） 9Ah
• Nominal Voltage：24V
• Charge Voltage: 29.2V
• Discharge Cut-off Voltage：16V
• Standard charge current：2A
• Max. continuous discharge current：20A
• Max. pulse discharge current(≤30s)：30A
• Battery Structure：3P8SIFR26650-3000 Add PCM
• Impedance (Max, at 1000Hz)：≤170mΩ
• Cycle Life（80DOD%）：≥1500 times
• Self-discharge Rate：≤3%
• Charge Method (CC/CV)：
• Standard：0.2C5A×6.5 hr.
• Quick：1 C5A×2.5 hr.

 

[synthrider]

FYI, evlithium also have a LiFePO4 option: 36V8Ah little frog battery. Price is $228, so the total cost with shipping is $348. They don't have this listed on their website for some reason (evlithium.com), and the person I'm in touch with actually advised me to go with the non-LiFePO4 option. Not sure what the deal is. I wonder if they had trouble with the slightly lower amperage, like someone on this thread reported?

 

[synthrider]

EugeneM has been kind enough to look at my various options. He's found some "red flags" in the stats from the evlithium.com battery above (http://evlithium.com/html/Lithium_Battery_Pack/154.html)- some things don't quite make sense, and the cycle life is too good to be true.

Here's part of his email:

A few red flags about this pack:

Title says 36v10Ah

Description says 24v9Ah

Cut off voltage of 16v also fits the 24v9Ah specs...

No mention of the chemistry is a bad sign.. And I would not trust the 1500 cycles number. 1500 cycles is a lifepo4 number but you cannot fit 36v10ah of lifepo4 in that case.

I've been in touch with a rep from evlithium.com, who's been helpful but has not answered all questions to my satisfaction.

It looks like I have gone full circle in my battery shopping, and am going to order from BMSBattery: http://www.bmsbattery.com/36v/17-36v-lithium-ion-little-frog-abs-shell-ebike-battery-pack.html

 

[synthrider]

Here's something interesting about this bike: X-Treme Scooters have apparently switched to a 24V LiFePO4 battery. Not sure what the current rating on it is. Sticking with the 24V is a little underwhelming, but then again its nice that their stock/replacement batteries will have the longer cycle life.

- - -

Here's something annoying about this bike: if you take it to a shop to have the brakes serviced or adjusted, they will be utterly baffled by the make, and will unable to get any replacement parts. If you try to order the brake pads yourself, you will also be baffled, because X-Treme Scooters "are unable to get just the brake pads for this unit any more, you will need to order a New Caliper which will have the brake pads already attached," which costs $46 a pop.

I am looking at some alternate kits/bundles to replace the brakes altogether. Don't want to spend a lot of $ so maybe Funn or Avid makes, not top of the line or anything.

- - -

It was nice to be able to buy a turn-key solution for about $1000 at the time, and learn about ebikes as I go along... at this point I wouldn't buy another one of these though, if the hub fails on me or something else serious brakes down, I would probably spend a bit more money on another ebike, or maybe even put together my own.

"Entry-level" was how I think someone described this bike on this thread, and it fits. Its not bad, its not fantastic, its just a start.

 

[The Stig]

Here's something interesting about this bike: X-Treme Scooters have apparently switched to a 24V LiFePO4 battery. Not sure what the current rating on it is. Sticking with the 24V is a little underwhelming, but then again its nice that their stock/replacement batteries will have the longer cycle life.

- - -

Here's something annoying about this bike: if you take it to a shop to have the brakes serviced or adjusted, they will be utterly baffled by the make, and will unable to get any replacement parts. If you try to order the brake pads yourself, you will also be baffled, because X-Treme Scooters "are unable to get just the brake pads for this unit any more, you will need to order a New Caliper which will have the brake pads already attached," which costs $46 a pop.

I am looking at some alternate kits/bundles to replace the brakes altogether. Don't want to spend a lot of $ so maybe Funn or Avid makes, not top of the line or anything.

- - -

It was nice to be able to buy a turn-key solution for about $1000 at the time, and learn about ebikes as I go along... at this point I wouldn't buy another one of these though, if the hub fails on me or something else serious brakes down, I would probably spend a bit more money on another ebike, or maybe even put together my own.

"Entry-level" was how I think someone described this bike on this thread, and it fits. Its not bad, its not fantastic, its just a start.

I'm looking to upgrade my calipers to. The only problem is I think the rear mounting holes for the caliper are slightly off standard spacing, so I haven't gotten around to finding a solution to that.

a 36v 8Ah LifePO battery would be nice. Whats the C rating....

 

[ProDigit]

Hey guys,

Don't confuse the LiPo4 with LiFePo4!
Xtreme is a cheaper company, they only keep the LiFePo4 batteries for their $3k+ bikes, not for the entry bikes.
The differences are:
LiPo4 has slightly greater capacity (you'll do a few miles per charge more).
LiFePo4 has more recharge cycles (You'll be able to charge the battery 2 to 2,5 times more than LiPo4).

 

[The Stig]

My my the price has come down over the years

One shops offering it for $600 shipped. I would just be concerned about them keeping the batteries alive if the stock has been sitting around for a while.

https://www.google.com/search?q=xb-310li&rls=org.mozilla:en-USfficial&tbs=vw:l,p_ord&tbm=shop&ei=eN2jUsvwNLPNsATWrIHYAg&ved=0CEAQuw0oAQ

 

[The Stig]

Using aluminum foil to keep the hinge tight. So the pin at the bottom that locks the hinge is tight.




A small shim to keep the hinge rigid torsionally, and also to keep the right half of the hinge up so the pin has maximum engagement.

View attachment 2

 

[jaz1902]

X Treme seems to have solved the loose hinge issue at the factory. I have a brandy new barely ridden one. I have actually not bee able to RELEASE the hinge to fold the bike. Waiting to try again after a long bumpy ride. Unable to do so currently due to excessive winter conditions. Looks like I'll be able to install my CA before I actually have to cycle the battery, perfect! Thanks ALL for this thread.

 

[The Stig]

X Treme seems to have solved the loose hinge issue at the factory. I have a brandy new barely ridden one. I have actually not bee able to RELEASE the hinge to fold the bike. Waiting to try again after a long bumpy ride. Unable to do so currently due to excessive winter conditions. Looks like I'll be able to install my CA before I actually have to cycle the battery, perfect! Thanks ALL for this thread.

Hi Joe, I was happy to read that you've become an eBike owner/rider! Sorry I've been absent from the forum for a while. I hope you figured out which CA to buy etc... So what modifications have you done so far? What sort of "mods" do you want to do in the Future?

I have changed every electrical(and related) component on my bike over the past 4 years or whatever its been... so I should be of some help

 

[dms]

If I understand every one correctly , I can switch out my 24volt battery to a 36volt 10a little frog battery on my 310li xtreme bike without any other changes to the bike?

 

[jaz1902]

Hi Stig,et al. Finally decided on the V2.3 CA. The fact that they still have an "Unofficial" user guide for V3 and the 81 page thread of issues here on ES led me to that decision. Was able to install it before having to cycle the batt, very happy about having total stats on the bike. Spring has finally arrived, and I've been riding and considering mods. Looking for an increase in torque for hill climbing. What exactly happens to MAX amps after soldering the controller shunt? Controller is rated 15A max. I'm assuming this will increase as a result, and I'll need to input a new max to CA. How does this affect life expectancy of controller/motor? I may consider upgrading to 36V sometime after I stop having so much fun @ 24V. I'd appreciate any input any of you can offer. Thanks, and Cheers! Joe.

 

[The Stig]

DMS,

Welcome to ES!

****Do this before your first post or now (it's retroactive)*****
Please go to the User Control Panel, select Profile, and then enter your city, state/province, and country into the Location field (country minimum) and save it. Once done, your location will appear in every post so you won't have people asking where you are ever again. This will help people help you. Example: Wylie, TX, USA. or just USA, but country as a minimum, and country is the most important. There are many cities with the same name all over the world. Without knowing what country you are in it's hard to make any recommendations. Thank you.


DMS, Joe,
To Answer your questions, I think someone in this thread said you could run the stock controller at 36V. Not sure if they've updated the controller since then. Whoever has time could open up the controller* and post pictures if you two want to play it safe. We need to know the voltage rating on the capacitors in the controller, thats for sure.

*for the black plastic box under the battery that the controller is hidden in... I don't bother with the tiny bolts that hold the outside of it together. I just use tiny black zip ties, or nothing.

If your going to upgrade battery, I would recommend custom installing one in the "little frog" battery case that our bikes come with. When it comes to batteries you should go with something quality like em3ev.com (I could post schematics for a custom battery that I installed in a little frog case.) or a LiPo battery like what was posted earlier. Whatever it is will take some care and soldering. I never found a battery with quality/brand name cells that comes in a little frog case.

 

[dms]

Thanks Stig.
I don't mind putting a few extra hundred dollars into the bike. I do have a few more questions I hope you wont mind answering. Does going to a (lets say) 36v10a battery up-grade, really make a big difference, if so, whats the reality of improvements if any?

I talked to a guy (lyen) in the ebike community thats pretty well known. He was saying I could go up to a 46volt battery with the motor we have if I have the right controller. Im still considering the 36v 10a for now, depending on what you have to say.
46v will cost me more, lol.

Also, what type motor is on this bike. It seeme to be a secret, lol. Is it a planetary gear hub, type motor or a direct drive or ect...
the only thing I know for sure is it is a 300 walt hub.

I would be very interested and appreciative of your schematics for the better battery you talked about as well as the little frog option. My only question on the home built one is the bms. Were you able to add one and if so ,how, my knowlege
is weak there.

As of right now I am waiting to hear back from a person about the voltage on the capacitor. I'll let you know when I here something. You know this is a really good bike for $700 and well worth putting 3-4 hundred into it, to have a $2,000 bike. maybe one day someone will post a forum on how to do it.

If any body else as any info please jump in.

 

[The Stig]

Ok I've owned the XB-310Li for 5 years or something so let me give you guys the realistic picture... its is a nice bike for getting from point a to b cheaply, but it will need to be treated nice or hopefully your into minor tinkering which would keep it running.

Disadvantages: low quality components all around(means there WILL be a lot of tinkering throught the life of the bike to keep it running), low quality frame(I saw a defective xb310li frame that broke, its not really worth upgrading components except for brakes maybe), to get high speed/power all electrical components need replacing (battery, controller and motor),

Advantages: Heavy duty frame with 350lbs capacity so assuming its not a defective one it will take anything you throw at it, the bike is well equipped, cheap, will do many miles if maintenance is kept up, its folding so its versatile which is handy in case of bad weather or break downs. The folding is actually one of my favorite features because I can use it for cross-city trips(subway) or intercity trips (bus or amtrak) so in that sense it is worth doing a small upgrade detailed 2 paragraphs down from here.


If your budget is 2000 you could get a better ebike if you spent the remaining 1300 on a used downhill-bike from craigslist and converted it to electric. ...Plus you would have the added advantage of having two ebikes now, like for riding around with a friend on a sunny day. I can give you recommendations if you want to follow this route.

If you want to modify the XB-310li, and If you have a new purpose or home for the 24v little frog battery that came with the bike, you could swap the 24v battery for a 36v battery, put a tiny bit of solder on the shunt in the controller and be good to go. Otherwise if you don't have anything to do with the 24v battery that comes with the bike I would say get another 24v battery, wire them in parallel and upgrade to a lyen controller including the usb programming adapter so you can set it up right. Still you won't be able to go up any steep inclines for tooo long cos the motor might overheat.

 

[DancesWithRobots]

So. . .I'm new to this board, and new to e-bikes in general. In fact I probably haven't been on a bike in a decade or so.

After considerable research, I decided to buy one of these XB310li's and assembled it last night. Bikes seem to have changed a bit since I rode one on a regular basis, but I really didn't have any problems to speak of.

After putting the charged battery in place, turning the key and fiddling with the throttle and red button, nothing happens. (I haven't actually ridden it yet. Tonight when I get home I have to put a bit of air in the tires.)

I THINK it has something to do with the seating of the battery and the position of the key. Without the battery, the key turns all the way around to a horizontal position (That I think I've seen in videos as "on.") and the metal locking post rises up. But when the battery is in place, I can't get the key to turn that far.

So, I suspect I may have it seated wrong, but no amount of fiddling and reseating has helped.

Can someone shine a light for this aging noob?

Update--I took a good look at the positions of the key. The only one that works for me is the "push in to turn and unload battery" position. I can't get to the "lock and leave" (key is removable) position, or the "on" (key can not be removed) position. The key never turns past verticle from the remove battery position.

Second update--Figured it out (sort of) but not sure what to do about it. A comment on a YouTube post described the same issue. I took off the seat clamp assembly and was able to plug the battery in enough to turn the key properly. The battery butts right up against the seat post and the seat clamp keeps the battery from properly seating. Of course I need the seat clamp so. . .looks like I might have to get creative with a file or something.

 

[The Stig]

Welcome to the forum, remember to post in the section that is called something like "New Users" so people there can help you settle into endless sphere.

solutions to your problem I can think of:

1) try moving the Battery Mount (metal thing) up and down the frame to see if theres a position that would allow the Battery to slide all the way onto the battery mount.

2) Put a shim (I used 2-3mm steel) between the Battery Mount and the Frame (of the bike). That part of the Frame is called the Seat Post Tube I think, its where the seat post enters the frame. So the shim should go on the Seat Post Tube, toward the rear of the bike.

I did (2) because the battery mount is made of steel and digs in and damages the aluminium frame.

 

[farbike]

Hello all e bike winners! 8)

I just ordered this xb310 today and hope to get my ass on it later this week. So excited to use it!
Question about the speed. I was told at a bicycle shop that the governor can be "adjusted" so the top speed can be responsibly advanced. What will I need to do to do this?

Thanks everyone!

The governor can be turned off by connecting the two loose grey wires comming from the controller.

Just an update on this bike, it is now callced the X-Cursion and has many of the slight fit and finish issues fixed such as those with the hinge. X-treme has been making this bike bettter and better each year, and although still an entry level electric bike this one willl ast a long time.

 

[cayars]

No grey wires of any kind on my 2015 X-Cursion.

You sure you don't mean the 2 loose white wires?

 

[LeftieBiker]

My Sister just ordered one of these, and I have a few concerns:

* Will a standard (7/8"?) adjustable stem fit this bike, and accept the stock handlebars? I want to get the bars up, and make it easier to move them for transport.

* How low will the seat go if the battery pod is relocated to the rear rack? She is about 5'8" and this bike seems way too tall for her - and for me, for that matter. The plan is to use a comfort seat in the lowest possible position. Will the battery cable reach, as-is?

* What is the real-world range of this bike for a 200lb rider? I'm talking about mainly flat terrain, but with a few decent hills.

* Will the bike climb real hills in 1st, with the rider pedaling along?

Thanks in advance.

 

[The Stig]

I just saw this leftybiker. Are any of these still unsolved?

 

[The Stig]

FYI for all you 310Li owners!

I started a thread for reviewing the different sources for Frog battery replacements: https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=73338

 

[LeftieBiker]

She's had the bike for a while now, and it's a mixed review. The worst things are that the seat height is ridiculously high for a folding bike - or any general use bicycle! - and even relocating the pack to the rear midsection leaves it too high, and that the controller seems to have a glitch that shuts it off randomly when she rides the bike. She is 5'8" and it's just too tall for her. I find it a bit uncomfortable and I'm an inch or two taller. Her BF loved the height - he's about 6'2". As for the glitch, it doesn't seem to be heat or load-related except that it happens more with her than with her thin, light BF. Ironically, she loves my spare EZIP Trailz, which I thought might be too prone to broken spokes.

The thing that worries me most about the most recent XB310li is the handlebar stem: they seem to have raised it to max height at the factory, and put in *plastic spacers* to help hold it up. So the bars are still too low but now more likely to have a stem failure (the mechanism that holds it tight is flimsy), and the bike is too tall for average people. Unless you are a tall, light person with great luck, this bike is a FAIL.

 

[The Stig]

By locating the battery to "the rear midsection", you mean mounting it to the frame? just below the seatpost clamp? thats where i had put. I just needed to cut away the lower front part of the plastic cover to make it fit. (im referring to the plastic cover that covers mounting bracket and the controller) I probably have pics of this somewhere, maybe from 2009!

I also recommend trying a "less tall" saddle, like with no springs (metal or rubber), if you see what im saying. It can still be wide so its comfortable.


Controllers are super cheap, this is after all a tinkering bike, as I warned in the first post, I will add the tall requirement issue. you should also consider returning the bike if its not too late, if they may have spec'd it for 5' 8" riders. The controller could be really easy to replace if you can find a better one with the same current limit and connectors. send lyen a pic of your connectors and see if he can help you out. Lyen is high-end. Edward (at) Lyen (dot) com

ecrazyman@gmail.com is also a good seller and low-end. here is his ebay store http://www.ebay.com/usr/e-crazyman?_trksid=p2047675.l2559