Samsung 30Q INR18650-30Q 3000mah 15a cell

[ridethelightning]

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[Allex]

+1

 

[jumpjack]

I read in datasheet that these "amazing" new 30Q cells have just 250 cycles.... at 60% capacity, but even just 120 cycles at 80% capacity, a more usual percentage value.
So, why are they "amazing"?!?

 

[ridethelightning]

I would expect that statement is only relevent with regard to the maximum discharge rate, of something like 25A/cell?

which particular data sheet are you referring to, have you got a link there please?

 

[riba2233]

I read in datasheet that these "amazing" new 30Q cells have just 250 cycles.... at 60% capacity, but even just 120 cycles at 80% capacity, a more usual percentage value.
So, why are they "amazing"?!?

This is in worst/extreme conditions, not relevant for EV users.

 

[jumpjack]

I would expect that statement is only relevent with regard to the maximum discharge rate, of something like 25A/cell?

which particular data sheet are you referring to, have you got a link there please?

First post in this same thread
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=68556#p1033978

 

[Allex]

Okashira, do you have som updates on Cycle test of 30Q?

 

[okashira]

Okashira, do you have som updates on Cycle test of 30Q?

I will get to it as soon as I can. I have alot of data that I have not went through, maybe 100-200 more cycles. Have not been cycling for the past month or so. I will resume it again when I have time.

 

[Nathan]

this 30Q 15a cell came out a few months ago ? and the 35E 10amp cell, when will the next 35Q cell be out ? a 3.5 amp 15 amp continuous cell well be awesome.

 

[Allex]

So this one is NMC. How about calendar life compared to NCA, NCA should at least hold 5-8 years right?

"The dirty secret: manganese in NCM cells will always dissolve into the electrolyte. You can slow the process with surface treatments but it is always happening. NCA cells will capacity fade to 70-80% and then stabilize with very gradual loss thereafter."
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=55710&p=829540

70-80 of fade but what is the time frame?

 

[ridethelightning]

gulp!

well,by the time iv waited for my new pack to get too old to use, i guesse there will be 10ah 18650 on the market :lol:

 

[riba2233]

I'm pretty sure that 30Q is NCA cell. NMC should last at least 7 years, and NCA over 10, maybe 15. That's if you don't kill the cell in some other way, of course.

 

[Allex]

Not according to this:
http://dampfakkus.de/akkutest.php?id=586

 

[ridethelightning]

it says on the dampfakkus tat the 20R and 25R are nmc also...
http://dampfakkus.de/akkutest.php?id=490

so either they have got it wrong or many people are thinking these cells are NCA but actually are not.

 

[okashira]

They are all NCA

 

[riba2233]

Yep, dampfakkus has wrong info on his site. They are NCA. Also, I think that all cells marked with INR are NCA, and those marked With ICR are either NMC or just Co.

 

[bigbore]

I'm doing same research to see if is possible to substitute a 5S 10Ah LiPo battery with a lighter 18650 battery pack.
I need to build a battery pack with 18650 cells capable of delivering 80A continuous and I would like to have a 4P config so each cell would deliver 20A cont.
I've been reading a lot of data and it seems to me that Samsung 30Q and LG HG2 could be the right cells with the lower voltage sag at 20A.
My conclusions are based on the following graph. Is not too much 86°C at the end of the discharge for a 18650 cell?

Sony VTC5A could be a good cell also? What do you think?

 

[Allex]

20A cont. per cell is very demanding even for 30q or vtc. If you are okay with reaching end of life at 200cycles, then go for it. 86C will of course kill it rapidly. I would not recommend going above 45C if you want to prolong their life.

 

[Hillhater]

How long do you expect this pack to last ?...weeks, months , years ?
20 amp/cell continuous discharge will kill those cells fast !.

 

[cycborg]

What do you mean by "continuous"? A minute or two? A 3 Ah cell at 20 A discharges in 9 minutes. 20 A all the time means really short rides and fairly short battery life. But a minute at a time with adequate rest in between might not cause too much heating. Still, I'd go with a couple more p's unless you plan on upgrading your pack every year or two anyway.

 

[bigbore]

What do you mean by "continuous"? A minute or two? A 3 Ah cell at 20 A discharges in 9 minutes. 20 A all the time means really short rides and fairly short battery life.

That's what I mean. The battery would be made for my RC FE Offshore that has run time from 5,5 minutes to 12 minutes depending on the water conditions. I've been using a 5S2P 10Ah LiPo and I think they will not last 200 cycles anyway so I think I could try to build a 18650 battery just to see what these high drain 18650 are capable of.
A cool feature could be the battery water cooling that I've thought to implement.
The price I've to pay for the LiPos is in the range of 137-150€. Now I start looking for a good price for 30 cells of the type LG HG2 or Sam. 30Q

 

[Hillhater]

Have you compared 18650 voltage sag to some decent RC Lipos ?
I suspect you will be losing some voltage on a like for like pack.

 

[bellfador]

VTC5A has low DC Internal Resistance but lipo has less (approximately 10 mOhm/Ah).

 

[okashira]

VTC5A has low DC Internal Resistance but lipo has less (approximately 10 mOhm/Ah).

Not really helpful to compare /Ah

How about /kg or /m^3

 

[bellfador]

Easy calcs... 3S 1300 mAh turnigy nano 25-50C weight 139g, or 46.3g per cell. Dc internal resistence will be approximaly 7.7 mOhm or 166 mOhm /g and 37 mOhm/Wh. VTC5A have 377 mOhm /g and 152 mOhm/ Wh. Soon I will make a test on some lipo and I can tell with sure.