Saved from the (fun) police with speed limiter?

[Alan B]

The cops are not going to try your bike. It is just not going to happen. If they think, even just suspect you have an illegal bike setup, they will just impound it and let the courts sort it out. Your lawyer bills will probably exceed the value of the machine.

These schemes for trying to hide your speed capacity or power are just a waste of energy. If they bother to get experts to evaluate your bike it just won't hold up. They may dig up your postings on the internet as well.

Spend your time doing something useful instead.

The only chance you have - is - keep the speed down. They can spot speed a mile away. Every camera along every road can be used to estimate speed fairly accurately. Power not so much.

Your best shot is to make your ebike look like a bike, and restrict your high speed runs to offroad. If you zoom around at motorcycle speeds, eventually one of the cars will take you out because they don't expect you to be going that fast. They look at you and see "bike", so they expect "bike speed". If they see you at all. If you are doing "motorcycle speed" you have two problems - they don't expect it, and you won't have time to save yourself when they cut you off.

The one "close encounter" I've had in over 10k miles of riding, while doing more than 20 and less than 40 in a residential zone with wide streets and nobody around, he pulled alongside (a motorcycle that I didn't realize was an officer until he was close, upon which I dropped the throttle), looked the bike over (probably looking for a gas motor), then he lost interest and zoomed away. I saw him a few minutes later on a different street going the other way and he didn't even look at me.

I can only guess that what saved me that day was "electric bicycle". This was on the GreyBorg, which is a very "moped" like machine, with moped tires and moped looks and a 50mm stator CroMotor. It was an afternoon commute run, and I was not far from home so let the speed creep up a bit. I was also wearing a motorcycle helmet and protective gear. Falls hurt a lot, even on a bicycle.

Wear the gear you want to have on in your next crash.

 

[MadRhino]

The cops in my neighbourhood know that my bikes are illegal. Some of them motorcycle patrolmen have tried one and liked it very much. They just don't care about the legality of the bike itself, they only care about how legal I behave on it. The main advantage is that I have the benefit of bicycle laws, so passing on the right, riding the parks and mountain trails, parking on the sidewalks, etc... It is riding a motorcycle with the freedom of bicycle privileges. In the city it does make one the fastest possible commuter.

 

[Compoundbike]

I thought i was the only one with such issues.. Well the law stinks and the available legal ebikes are slow for my taste.Besides that the self build bike is much cheaper then the comparable finished products. Back to topic, i try to avoid streets or going slow to not catch attention.

Sent from IPhone 7

 

[flat tire]

They just don't care about the legality of the bike itself, they only care about how legal I behave on it.

I think this is probably the attitude most places. E-bikes just don't have a "danger" element that grabs people, so they are usually ignored by people who aren't interested in riding one. There are also few enough people riding bicycles that others don't care about cyclists unless they're taking up a lane going 20 mph and refusing to let anyone pass.

I AM THE FUN POLICE

Interesting story...anyway, this thread is not for people who think going fast on an electrified bicycle is bad news. FWIW I've run into a bunch of cops on the bike but I've never been caught by surprise so there's always been ample time to hit the brakes and start pedaling. As far as cars not expecting you, other drivers here in Houston NEVER see me regardless of the vehicle type I'm on (in) so I just take that into consideration. Problem (mostly) solved. You should really do that regardless of where you live or how people normally drive. As far as gear goes, it's desirable in theory but usually impractical. The biggest concern is you look like a motorcyclist which opens you up to scrutiny from everyone, since motorcyclists are a bunch of hooligans, right? If this wasn't the case I would wear my RF1100 and moto jacket + pants when riding.

Keep up the stories, people, and please keep away with any sort of advocacy whatsoever against riding e-bikes "fast".

 

[Alan B]

Hooligan motorcyclists aren't the ones wearing protective gear.

Homebrew ebikers riding in traffic at 40 mph are likely to damage the freedom we have.

Look to NY or Israel for what happens when ebikers behave foolishly.

 

[flat tire]

Homebrew ebikers riding in traffic at 40 mph are likely to damage the freedom we have.

How so? I ride like a gentleman in traffic and have exactly zero issues with drivers getting upset. Most don't even pay any attention to me and many don't even notice me at all.

And of course, a bike moving IN traffic, with the flow of other cars, is much less objectionable and dangerous than one which is moving at a speed much SLOWER than traffic. With this in mind,it's pretty clear that the ones riding with a big speed differential relative to traffic are actually the problem.

 

[Chalo]

I just don't see the point in trying to drive the discussion towards intentional hiding of intentional illegal activity, when prohibiting the thing actually serves the public interest. And let's be clear-- fast e-bikes are not prohibited. What are prohibited are motor vehicles that are uninsured, uninspected, unregistered, and unlicensed. Do you think anyone's interests are served by sticking up for that? Is that who you want to share the road with, really?

Motorcycles have standards, responsibilities, and obligations attached to them. If what you're riding is a motorcycle, it's on you to meet all of the above. Sneaking around and shirking your responsibilities isn't just illegal, it's a crappy thing to do to responsible motorcyclists and responsible bicyclists both, as well as any other road users whose safety is compromised by the shortcuts you have chosen to take.

If you wouldn't trust the average hood rat to act responsibly with an uninsured, uninspected, unregistered, unlicensed motor vehicle, why should the rest of us trust you with the same?

 

[Mundo]

Chalo's word are harsh, but true.
Crazy e-bikers jeopardize the rest of us!
None of us want more regulations and scrutiny...E-biker who want to surpass the laws, should take it off-road (hopefully private property) or to the track

 

[flat tire]

I just don't see the point in trying to drive the discussion towards intentional hiding of intentional illegal activity, when prohibiting the thing actually serves the public interest

.
It's a topic relevant and interesting to many e-bikers, and I feel like it's worth discussing. We're not talking about how to hide evidence of a murder either, we're talking about riding fast electric bicycles on the street, preferably SAFELY and RESPONSIBLY, without being scrutinized by overzealous authorities. It's not a big deal.

And let's be clear-- fast e-bikes are not prohibited. What are prohibited are motor vehicles that are uninsured, uninspected, unregistered, and unlicensed. Do you think anyone's interests are served by sticking up for that? Is that who you want to share the road with, really?

First, who the hell wants to register a freakin powered bicycle? I sure don't, and I don't care about powered bicycles being unregistered, uninspected, and the riders being unlicensed. If there's a mishap on the road with an e-biker, it's the rider's ass that will suffer. Now motorcycles are a little more dangerous to others but frankly I don't care about those being inspected or ridden by licensed individuals either. A lot of the ones around here certainly aren't

If you wouldn't trust the average hood rat to act responsibly with an uninsured, uninspected, unregistered, unlicensed motor vehicle, why should the rest of us trust you with the same?

See above, and in my case I go the extra mile by not only using my best riding skills but also striving to be POLITE!


Keep the stories coming, people!!

 

[MadRhino]

...any other road users whose safety is compromised by the shortcuts you have chosen to take.

Other users of the road are cars, trucks, buses... I don't believe their safety is at risk in the case of a collision with a 69Lbs ebike. I have no doubt that I am the one at risk of serious injuries in a collision with other road users. Luckily, we have universal insurance here. One could be an illegal immigrant riding a 100 Hp plastic wheelbarrel and still fully covered.

@mundo Cops do care much more about the behaviour than the vehicle. Crazy people are not mostly riding ebikes, they are driving all sort of vehicles and it is the job of the cops to pull them off the streets. If you ride a perfectly legal bike on the sidewalk or cross a red light, you are the crazy rider that cops will eventually pull off.

 

[liveforphysics]

750w of mechanical output translated the torque for various RPMs.

750w output at Xrpm

1rpm = 5,315ft-lbs of torque.
2rpm = 2,657ft-lbs of torque.
5rpm = 1,063ft-lbs of torque.
10rpm = 531ft-lbs of torque (approximately deathbike rear wheel torque as currently geared).
20rpm = 265ft-lbs of torque.
30rpm = 177ft-lbs of torque.
50rpm = 106ft-lbs of torque.
100rpm = 53ft-lbs of torque.
200rpm = 26ft-lbs of torque (getting pretty sad now).

 

[MadRhino]

... 531ft-lbs of torque (approximately deathbike rear wheel torque as currently geared).

720 Nm... hmm

I know your calculations must be good, and I am no math whizard to contest.
Yet I find this one a tad high at first sight

 

[E-geezer]

Cops and other users won't care unless you ride like a big enough jackass to stand out, or until there are so many ebikes that they become identified as a user group and the bad apples in that user group define the rest of us in the eyes of the law and others. The first thing could happen today, the second won't happen for several years, I think we are small enough in number that we are oddities and ignored. The second thing has already happened elsewhere and could happen here.

 

[flat tire]

I think we are small enough in number that we are oddities and ignored

Boom, here in America's 4th largest city nobody knows or cares about e-bikes. Like, "oh a motorized bicycle, you have cars and a motorcycle, why would you want THAT?" They really don't get it lol.

Anyway, please continue to share stories of impromptu police-ebike meetings if you have any!

 

[WoodlandHills]

...any other road users whose safety is compromised by the shortcuts you have chosen to take.

Other users of the road are cars, trucks, buses... I don't believe their safety is at risk in the case of a collision with a 69Lbs ebike. I have no doubt that I am the one at risk of serious injuries in a collision with other road users. Luckily, we have universal insurance here. One could be an illegal immigrant riding a 100 Hp plastic wheelbarrel and still fully covered.

@mundo Cops do care much more about the behaviour than the vehicle. Crazy people are not mostly riding ebikes, they are driving all sort of vehicles and it is the job of the cops to pull them off the streets. If you ride a perfectly legal bike on the sidewalk or cross a red light, you are the crazy rider that cops will eventually pull off.

Is it really just a matter of the physical safety of those you might hit? What about their emotional trauma, if your illegal, uninspected and unregistered e-motorcycle is in an accident with another vehicle, what about the poor SOB in the other car who has to live with that? Do you have (or plan to take) any responsibility regarding the general public or is it all about you and what you feel like getting away with? Is there any obligation whatsoever to the community that you live in and to your fellow citizens and neighbors, to say nothing of the police and EMTs who have to clean up the mess? Unless you are a hermit all alone on a mountaintop we all live in a community and our actions affect more than just ourselves.

 

[flat tire]

I live in THEORETICAL land of fantasy life

Call me a selfish asshole but the welfare of the people who have to witness my death is a few points down on my list of reasons to avoid getting pasted while riding on the streets. Anyway, I'm trying to avoid that and I imagine other e-bikers have similar feelings. Quit being alarmist. A few e-bikers will die riding their e-bikes, like in any other activity with an element of risk. The vast majority will not, and we will all be having a LOT OF FUN while we ride!

 

[WoodlandHills]

I live in THEORETICAL land of fantasy life

Call me a selfish asshole but the welfare of the people who have to witness my death is a few points down on my list

OK, if you insist. You are a selfish asshole because you don't care about the welfare of the children or adults who have to witness your death on your illegal e-motorcycle.

Also I don't appreciate you altering my post in your quote to put words into my mouth that I never said. Demonstrably you have no sense of ethics regarding that either. You really are quite something........

 

[flat tire]

WAAAAAAH

I'm not censoring anybody, your original, unaltered posts are above mine for the world to read. And my point is that I will be taking ACTIVE precautions to not die on my e-bike while riding on the street--including having a machine capable of riding WITH the flow of traffic, so drivers aren't forced to pass someone doing 15-30 mph slower than other cars.

 

[WoodlandHills]

OK, I understand now: you are such a great rider that you don't plan on having an ACCIDENT on your e-motorcycle due to "Active precautions" so any lack of liability insurance to pay for damages you might cause is irrelevant. Does that sum it up?

Oh, and you don't care about anyone who you might hit, don't want to leave that out......

 

[flat tire]

What are you suggesting exactly? That nobody should ride bicycles or motorized bicycles on the street? I've already clarified that IF you are riding on the street, it's MUCH SAFER to ride IN traffic than ride much SLOWER than traffic, where you present an obstruction people have to deal with and pass.

The idea that I need liability insurance is laughable. More like life insurance, and I've already specified that I have no intention of dying on my bike. If it happens, it happens, but I will try to minimize the risk while riding in a way I consider reasonable.

 

[MadRhino]

Is it really just a matter of the physical safety of those you might hit? What about their emotional trauma, ...

Yep, I believe that if you are not threatening other people physical integrity or private property, you are on the good side of the moral border. As for their emotions if they kill me, I couldn't care less and, if you think about it: Knowing that the guy they killed was illegal, can only help feeling less guilty. :wink:

 

[MadRhino]

OK, I understand now: you are such a great rider that you don't plan on having an ACCIDENT

Great riders do have accidents. They crash many times a year. That is what had made them great riders, and the tribute in pain that a rider endures in the name of his philosophy: "Ride to live and Live to ride". The same as for horses, one needs to ride and fall, many horses and many situations and many years, to become a good rider.

 

[LI-ghtcycle]

Guys, this thread is not to discuss whether or not bicycles are good for 40 MPH and above. That question has been answered years ago, and the answer is (if you have a good setup, like a downhill MTB) an overwhelming YES!!! Bicycles are awesome at that speed, just have motorcycle skills to control it and realize you are in for some road rash if you go down.

We're here to talk about police encounters on the ebike, preferably involving a thwarting of authority with variable speed limits on your controller. Please share stories along THOSE lines.

Back on topic, another good way to do this that is very simple, is to limit gearing, and if you have an IGH it wouldn't necessarily be obvious (most people have no idea what to think of a NuVinci "shifter).

If the NuVinci N171B is in low, the bike goes no faster than 12 MPH. 8)

That said, I ride most of the time at bicycle speeds, but when I unhook the trailer I will sometimes go closer to "moped" speeds perhaps.

Fortunately, I live in a VERY bicycle friendly area, and not too many are "bicycle snobs" that think they need to be in anyone else's business, so the closest I have ever gotten to getting "in trouble" was when another bicyclist complained about my too bright headlight (since fixed with a different lens so that it's not blinding) when going opposite directions on a major bicycle path for commuters.

An even better development is the maturing of attitudes to realize not everyone lives in a flatland, or has the same needs, where California has different levels of assistance for different reasons (cargo bikes, climbing hills, etc.)

And has stopped the idiotic one size fits all idea of limiting power, and simply put a speed limit on it and allowed for more power.

I too find riding an E-Bike closer to bicycle speeds more pleasurable, however, I also live in a EXTREMELY bicycle friendly area where I can practically travel everywhere with at least a bike lane if not a street declared as a bicycle road, and I love having the option of speeding up to 30 MPH when I need to in a area where I would otherwise impede traffic, and cause an unsafe situation where frustrated car drivers will take dangerous risks to pass me, and I would have built something much faster sooner had I not had the option of these bike paths/lanes.

There is no "one size fits all" solution/design of an E-Bike, I prefer diversity of this kind over the initial knee-jerk rules we got saddled with, never made sense to limit motor power in the first place.

Speed Pedelects are gaining acceptance too, thus opening up the allowance for 28 MPH E-Bikes, and depending on where and how you ride, this might not fit (a crowded down-town area for example is NOT a good place for that kind of speed) but I prefer to use the "speed limiter" between my ears VS some stuffy city council member deciding what everyone else should do especially when so many of the people making the laws have NO CLUE what an E-Bike is much less what makes sense in how they are ridden.

 

[RageNR]

Great riders do have accidents. They crash many times a year. That is what had made them great riders...

THIS x1000

You can not account for all the idiots out there on the road. The only idiot you can account for is the one between your ears.

As for trying to evade the local PoPo, don't do anything stupid. Keep out of sight, and keep a low profile. Drive modestly and let cars go by if they want to go by.
When I am forced to ride my bike on the street, I always try to stay right as much as possible. Just let the cars go past and keep up with them once they are in front of you.

Some people will say this is nuts, but you are actually safer being closer to the car in front of you. The car is there for "cushion" if something comes up ahead.
The closer you are to that vehicle at a given speed, the less impact will occur if they slam on their breaks and you hit the back.

Just think about that for a moment. You are following a car at say 30mph. Car suddenly hits brakes, you hit the back of the car.
Now, is that going to hurt more if you are 8ft away or 30ft? At 30ft, you may have a chance to dodge the impact. Not likely. The impact from 30ft away is not going to feel good. I assure you that.
Yes yes, I know everyone is going to bark about following cars closely.
That is why you ride to the far right (USA right lane here) of the vehicle in front of you. Give you a much better chance to deflect to the right off the back corner or side of the car, in the event of an impact.

Ideally, you would not want to be around any vehicles. BUT, we are discussing crowded traffic situations where such opportunities are not probable.
The KEY is to pay attention to what is ahead of the vehicle you are behind. You see the situation ahead, prepare for evasive maneuvers, and use your more nimble vehicle and weight to your advantage.
The GOAL is to NOT be between two cars when their bumpers kiss.
Avoiding the situation all together is more desirable, but is not always how events go down.

Things get a little dicey when we are talking about higher speeds. In traffic is usually less than 35mph on avg.
You have a major weight advantage over the 4 wheeled toaster boxes rolling around the street when it comes to stopping.
Use that advantage, alertness of your surroundings, and prepared reactions to keep yourself safe. You are not going to hurt the person in the toaster box, and probably not motorbike riders either.
The worst thing you can do is cause a scene, and make people dodge you, who then collide with other toaster boxes.
All you'll have then is a bunch of angry wheel benders, and burnt toast. No one is happy.


Regardless of what laws say, police are out to look for the trouble makers. Whether those causing a scene are actually breaking laws or not. Make a scene, YOU WILL BE NOTICED.
They could care less about your bike. You could be going fast on a bike, scooter, in a car, or on a freakin magic carpet for all they care. If you blow by a cop at noticeable speeds.... :lol:

 

[flat tire]

OK, I understand now: you are such a great rider that you don't plan on having an ACCIDENT

Great riders do have accidents. They crash many times a year.

I'm not a great rider, but I think I am competent in that I regularly practice bike handling exercises (off road, on road, and in parking lots), and account for traffic in an aggressively defensive manner. That will give you a big leg up staying out of trouble.

By the way, I ride motocross on the track with a CR125 and also take the e-bike on trails. THOSE places I might crash more than once on a single ride if I'm really pushing myself. But on the street, where I'm not pushing the limit and staying within my comfort zone, there is little reason to crash. Stuff can happen out of the blue, but by putting yourself in good situations and not doing anything dumb with the bike, your chance of rubber side going up goes down hugely.

Some people will say this is nuts, but you are actually safer being closer to the car in front of you

Sorry, but following cars closely is dumb as hell unless you're drafting, in which case it's totally legitimate and guaranteed safe . Really, though, that is NOT the safe thing to do--give yourself some damn room so you have time to swerve AROUND cars in the event of trouble. Your bike is narrow and if it's at all possible to go AROUND something rather than INTO it, by all means choose to go around. Even if it means crashing, going around or off the road is probably better than committing to hitting someone because the sudden slowdown could also result in you and your e-bike getting rear ended, which won't end well.