SHIPPING LIFPO4 WITH UPS/ANY PROBLEMS?

[BLUESTREAK]

I took a 48 volt battery to UPS today and tried to ship it to Haste in TN. But the (kid girl ) at the store didn't know and got on the phone with someone who didn't know either. Can anyone give me a hint as to whats my next step? She rambled on about some HASMAT papers but it didn't make sense. Thanks Cooper. :?

Mod edit: Fixed your stuck caps key.

 

[amberwolf]

Well, when PDF recently shipped some RC LiPo to me, he had all the hazmat papers and labelling, properly packed, etc., but the UPS guy didn't know what to do with that and I guess was afraid to ship it labelled like that, so the UPS guy stuck it inside another box with no labelling whatsoever.

Personally, given their complete lack of caring or knowledge, I'd just call it a "power supply" and ship it as-is.

But if you want to completely comply with all the regulations, you'll probably have to call the main UPS line to get links to all the paperwork and whatnot, and there will also probably be extra fees to ship it that way.

Here's a search on the UPS site for Hazmat and Lithium:
http://www.ups.com/search/quick?loc=en_US&results=25&view=both&query=hazmat+lithium&searchButton=
one of which brings up this page:
http://www.ups.com/content/us/en/resources/ship/hazardous/variations.html?srch_pos=2&srch_phr=hazmat+lithium
and this page:
http://www.ups.com/content/us/en/resources/ship/packaging/supplies/hazmat.html?srch_pos=1&srch_phr=hazmat+lithium&WT.svl=SRCH
which are probably the most relevant.

 

[Lessss]

If shipping by any courier package it to survive being thrown and dropped several times.

 

[dogman dan]

Call it modeling clay. Heavy and comes in square packages. Don't ship it fully charged.

 

[dumbass]

You can call it anything you want.......but I there's a new federal law that says you must be trained and certified to ship lifepo4 and lipo cells. The fine if caught is exstreamly high and is based on a "per cell" bases. You should be able to Google it.....

Someone I know from ES tried to ship 2 Thunder Sky cells back to the supplier. They were still in the original shipping box received from the supplier. They were held half way between the shipping point and the destination and UPS refused to ship the back or allow them to continue on to the destination. The individual at UPS that excepted the package had to drive to the UPS warehouse where they were stopped and pick them up and deliver them back to the person that shipped them. For what I remember it was a several hundred mile drive for him.

Eventually, the guy put them into an unmarked box and reshipped them......Good thing he didn't get caught that time though.

Bob

 

[BLUESTREAK]

problem with UPS solved. today I took my 48volt 20ah battery to the main UPS terminal and shipped with out any problems. the rest of the story is don't go to the franchised UPS stores they don't know what to do and are too lazy to get on the phone with their on hazmat people and help you that takes too much effort from them.

 

[999zip999]

I found shipping from a ups store front they can charge want they want 45usd for a wheel. Went to Fedex not a mom and pop fedex ( 42usd. ) and it was 22usd. Plus they didn't like the old 9c box and said it would be 17usd to rebox. Reboxed myself. It depends on there mood.

 

[dumbass]

problem with UPS solved. today I took my 48volt 20ah battery to the main UPS terminal and shipped with out any problems. the rest of the story is don't go to the franchised UPS stores they don't know what to do and are too lazy to get on the phone with their on hazmat people and help you that takes too much effort from them.

So did you identify it as a lifepo4 battery pack? And did they mark it as such?

Bob

 

[pdf]

As Amberwolf indicated, I have shipped LiPO UPS from a store front and basically the guy reboxed it so the HazMat labels were not visible. I had shipped a LiPFePO4 battery a couple of years ago from the same store and a different clerk called the main terminal and got explicit instructions.

My advice is to go to a main terminal, not a store front. They will know how to ship it. I did not sleep well until that last package got where it was going. It's not worth the worry.

 

[BLUESTREAK]

I did tell the man that it was a LIFPO4 battery but I am not sure what they marked it with because he took the battery to a table top behind him so I did not see how it was marked. but I am happy since the cost is about 1/3 less at the main terminal. from now on I will only ship from the main terminal.

 

[DAND214]

have you tried USPS? Box it at home pay for the postage on line and they pich it up, no hassles so far. That's how Hobbyking shipped too me. Oh i forgot to say, it's cheaper too. Even more thru Ebay.

Dan

 

[bottleworks]

I just got 188 LiFeP04 cells today via ups. The packaged was well marked that lithiums were enclosed. There was also a listed phone number incase of fire But it wasn't shipped hazmat. I even verified with the supplyer before they shipped. I believe it matters what kind of lithiums you're shipping because they do ship under hazmat with some of the cells that they sell.

 

[dumbass]

I just got 188 LiFeP04 cells today via ups. The packaged was well marked that lithiums were enclosed. There was also a listed phone number incase of fire But it wasn't shipped hazmat. I even verified with the supplyer before they shipped. I believe it matters what kind of lithiums you're shipping because they do ship under hazmat with some of the cells that they sell.

If you read the legal shipping information for lithium cells a lot has to do with the amount of lithium in each cell. So smaller sells for example slide through without an issue. And then there is also the issue of being a certified individual for making the shipments.

DAND214...Just a comment......My mail is all delivered to my local past office. Last week while I was opening my postal box I nooticed a hazmat poster on the wall. It was on the shipping of batteries. I will need to look at it again for verification but I believe it said they will NOT allow shipment of any batteries especially lithium batteries. And it also indicated there was a large fine and possible imprisonment for violators. But as I said I need to go back and verify this. The next time i am at the PO I will take a camera.

In any case reguardless how you ship lithium if you are trying to avoid detection of what is in the package by boxing it at home or putting it into an unmarked box or even claiming the box contains something other then lithium cells I think your opening your self up to my potential problem if something goes wrong or someone somehow catches what is actually in the box. Just a thought.....

Bob

 

[bigmoose]

For info on USPS:
http://pe.usps.com/text/pub52/pub52c6_003.htm

622.52 Secondary Lithium-ion (Rechargeable) Cells and Batteries

Small consumer-type lithium-ion cells and batteries such as those used to power cell phones and laptop computers are mailable with the following restrictions:

Individual cells or batteries are mailable when the cells or batteries are properly packed with or properly installed in the equipment they operate.
Each cell must contain no more than 1.5 g of equivalent lithium content per cell.
Each battery must contain no more than 8.0 g aggregate quantity of equivalent lithium content per battery.
Each cell or battery must meet the requirements of each test in the
UN Manual of Tests and Criteria, Part III, and subsection 38.3 as referenced in the DOT’s hazardous materials regulation at 49 CFR 171.7.
Individual mailpieces must not contain more than three batteries.
In addition, all secondary lithium-ion cells and batteries must be mailed in a firmly sealed package separated and cushioned to prevent short circuit, movement, or damage. Except for batteries installed in equipment, they must be in a strong outer package. All outer packages must have a complete delivery and return address. Cells or batteries properly installed in the device they operate must be protected from damage and short circuit, and the device must be equipped with an effective means of preventing accidental activation. The outside of the package must be marked on the address side “Package Contains Lithium-Ion Batteries (no lithium metal).”

Grams lithium per Ahr is clarified here:
http://lithiumbatterypackaging.com/classificationinformation.html

Equivalent lithium content for lithium polymer cells and lithium ion and batteries in grams on a per cell basis is calculated as 0.3 times the rated capacity in ampere-hours, The equivalent lithium content for a battery pack or battery is the rated capacity in ampere-hours for a single cell multiplied by 0.3 and then multiplied by the number of cells in the battery.

So it looks like no "cell" can be more than 5 AHr. So our typical 5S1P brick would be 5Ahr per cell, so 1.5 gram Li per cell and 5 x 1.5 or 7.5 grams/battery. So if the bricks pass the requirements of each test in the UN Manual of Tests and Criteria, Part III, and subsection 38.3 as referenced in the DOT’s hazardous materials regulation at 49 CFR 171.7. It looks like you could only ship one brick in each box.

Shipping regs are going to kill the electric revolution...

 

[dumbass]

Here's another form that I was just reading that is basicly the SOS. The regs are very difficult not only to comply with but also to totally understand. But it does seam that if you follow the regs (if you understand them and even the pros don't) you can ship the cells but they need to be documented.......and trying to hide them can get you in deep shit! So be careful out there......

The second link is the penalty for violations if shipped by air...and would you reall know if it was or not?

Bob

http://www.iata.org/SiteCollectionDocuments/Documents/GuidanceDocumentontheTransportofLiBatt_2010.pdf

http://www.send2press.com/newswire/2010-10-1020-007.shtml

 

[darkshirikens]

I've been sending 12 ah cell through USPS without problem i generally put them in individual ziplock sandwich bags which is suitable when even a hazmat worker picks up various items from big chain stores like Walmart that I've actually used to inspect the main thing is just to keep the cells isolated from each other from possible shorts on each other but if its an internal thing and it bursts or shorts your screwed lol but i say box this stuff up at home use bags to your cells if you have a fully assembled pack then you might want to get the hazmat stickers pay the b.s extra charge just for insurance like what do you think they do at the small computer stores for laptops they take the battery out put it in a single plastic bag by itself and put it in a labeled box and wait till hazmat guy comes