SIA155-48 Hairpin Motor

[Moonshot]

Here's the motor:

https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256805655501062.html?spm=a2g0o.cart.0.0.760338daI7U9Fj&mp=1&gatewayAdapt=glo2usa

Here it is with a controller:

https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256805710615595.html?spm=a2g0o.cart.0.0.7b7a38da3P6mhO&mp=1&gatewayAdapt=glo2usa

I'm curious to know what you folks think it could do power-wise. It's similar in weight to the QS138 70H, and I've seen people quoting up to 25kW out of those, and 35kW out of the longer QS138 90H. Is there any chance the SIA155 could hit those levels?

Also, the SIA155-48 claims a wider range of high efficiency, and I find that very attractive.

What do you all think?

 

[neptronix]

Would suggest asking the vendor for a dyno sheet; would help making a good estimate of the true power level.

 

[Moonshot]

Hmm, yes that would be nice. I'll see what they can provide.

 

[dominik h]

I would also like to know the max specs for the other new motors
SIA155-64 Hairpin Motor with Higher performance Peak 29kw 7500rpm 85N.m.
SIA200-50 Peak 28kW 70N.m Mid Drive Motor with 1:2.5 Gearbox

 

[Moonshot]

I hadn't seen those motors, but I did just find them on the Siaecosys Facebook page. I'll see if I can get any more info there.

 

[Moonshot]

Well it looks like they updated the product page with some dyno graphs.

This one is at 200A line current:

And this one is at 300A line current:

More info:

More Graph:

 

[Moonshot]

I wonder how this 72 Volt rated motor would run at the 64-ish nominal Voltage of a 20S LiFePo4 battery pack...

 

[amberwolf]

It will run proportionally slower by 72/60.

 

[Moonshot]

It will run proportionally slower by 72/60.

Do you mean 72/64? Of which the answer is 1.125, so the top speed of the motor would be .125 slower?

That's not too bad of a drop. I'd just have to make it up with a lower gear ratio.

 

[amberwolf]

Sorry, I meant 64/72. That would be 0.88x the original speed, unloaded.

 

[mxlemming]

Got one of these.
Heavy. It's a lot heavier than qs165 but lighter than qs138.
60uH inductance average, 60uH salience (30uH Ld 90uH Lq). This will generate a huge amount of torque through reluctance.
17.6mWb... This is similar to the other QS.
4.8mohm resistance (per VESC estimate). Higher than qs138 and I think even the 165...

Surprisingly high cogging torque but runs pretty quiet and smooth.

Due to the salience it'll be best run with encoder, which it has rather than hall sensors. Needs MTPA and FOC, will probably run like shit with bldc.

It's a decent motor. Free run current is lower than the other QS motors I think.

 

[neptronix]

93.3% peak efficiency is pretty impressive - probably thanks to very low end turn losses on the copper ( this is a big advantage of hairpin wound motors )

 

[ChongBong]

Got one of these.
Heavy. It's a lot heavier than qs165 but lighter than qs138.
60uH inductance average, 60uH salience (30uH Ld 90uH Lq). This will generate a huge amount of torque through reluctance.
17.6mWb... This is similar to the other QS.
4.8mohm resistance (per VESC estimate). Higher than qs138 and I think even the 165...

Surprisingly high cogging torque but runs pretty quiet and smooth.

Due to the salience it'll be best run with encoder, which it has rather than hall sensors. Needs MTPA and FOC, will probably run like shit with bldc.

It's a decent motor. Free run current is lower than the other QS motors I think.

Thanks for the mini review. I’ve been wondering for a long time about that one. The windings look so cool. How much did it cost you landed?

I don’t know how many other motors you have first hand experience with (sotion? Ebmx?) but curious if you’ve got any further thoughts on how you personally would rank the top contenders in the market right.

 

[mxlemming]

Thanks for the mini review. I’ve been wondering for a long time about that one. The windings look so cool. How much did it cost you landed?

I don’t know how many other motors you have first hand experience with (sotion? Ebmx?) but curious if you’ve got any further thoughts on how you personally would rank the top contenders in the market right.

No experience with sotion or ebmx. Their claims seem too good to be true though and normally when this means the claims aren't true... I mean... There's a lot of scope for performance increase. The stock motor and qs165 leave a lot of empty space, but...300$ for qs 165v2 vs like 1800$ for sotion or ebmx? Errrr... That takes quite some performance to make it worthwhile. I tuned a surron with qs165v2 and a big VESC, it was vicious at 400A.

In the end, the peak torque/power ends up being determined by the volume of the rotor and the long term power by the lamination losses and the copper losses (and cooling which is no better on the expensive aftermarket motors). Everything's an upgrade over the standard surron motor though which has surface mount magnets that fall off.

There's a bit of nonsense going around at the moment with people selling stuff for mental prices for nothing special. Torp and ebmx... Just neutered 4 year out of date VESC code locked down and sold for 1500$. Few others doing that. KO... Rebadged fardriver 4x the price.

Sia155 price as per AliExpress.

 

[Irling]

Has anyone had any experience using this engine? Is it really better than the 165 v3?