Simple BLDC controller

Luke,
Our last teaming worked out well. so I am totaly down with it.
I just bought 10 motor driver chips from an in country suplier so I have plenty to learn with.
Do you have some better sources for the caps & other stuff? I am in on a group buy for components & will even assemble "kits" & handle the logistics for sphere members. This is the controller I would like to compete the death race with...I love the idea of a home rolled device taking over the world...
 
Thud said:
Luke,
Our last teaming worked out well. so I am totaly down with it.
I just bought 10 motor driver chips from an in country suplier so I have plenty to learn with.
Do you have some better sources for the caps & other stuff? I am in on a group buy for components & will even assemble "kits" & handle the logistics for sphere members. This is the controller I would like to compete the death race with...I love the idea of a home rolled device taking over the world...
Click to expand...


I spent about $2,000usd on a premium capacitor buying spree. I literally have enough caps in stock to make >50+ assembled controllers.
I will happily just mail you whatever you need my friend.
 
Hi,
liveforphysics said:
This controller does every feature I've ever wanted in a controller.

I've created an all inclusive list below:
1. Running the motor.
Click to expand...
2. Incorporate Burtie's timing wizard?

3. Brew a cup of Expresso?
 
The LoBo brain with isolated floating DC/DC fet driver power could control a bank of 6 of these sexy little monsters:

http://ixdev.ixys.com/DataSheet/DS100264(MMIX1G320N60B3).pdf


Build yourself a >100kw HV brushless controller for a hundred bucks in parts.
 
Jeremy Harris said:
Maybe we'll just call it "lobo" for short ................ :D
Click to expand...
Which is also a Wolf, which makes it perfect for me, too. :p

I already have some of the MC3303x chips, and I've got various caps, and I think I still have enough of the NTY100N10 FETs. I also have a few 8-pin DIP FET driver chips but I cant' remember what p/n they are, or if they'd be pin-compatible with this board (but I can always dead-bug wire them in).

So put me down for a couple of PCBs if they're cheap enough once they're made; I'd like to experiment with it here. It should be easier to troubleshoot this one rather than the Chinese version I've got, if it were to blow up differently than it already is (assuming I can even fix it).

Regarding the shunts, I suppose it'd be impossible to use a few shunts from a WU or similar, isntead of ordering the specific ones? The resistance is too different, I think. (only considering it as I have two WU that are currently parts sources). Probably I'd have better luck using shunts out of a dead controller; I just don't know what the values are, so I'd have to measure them via a current test.
 
Thanks for the enthusiasm, folks, but be aware this is still untested at high loads and may still have bugs.

I can post the DXF files, probably best as two single layer files, one for the copper, one for the component side. I'll get on to this after breakfast this morning. To convert this layout into one suitable for CNC milling will need some work. At the moment, the copper side layout is made up of lines, circles and polylines, filled with solid colour. It's be easy (but slightly tedious) to take the fill out, then the lines etc would need adapting to work out tool offsets for milling around the edges, on the correct side. None of the track spacing is tight, so tool width shouldn't be a real problem. If I get time I might separate out he fill from the lines on to different layers, as that would possibly make working out tool paths a bit easier.

The shunts are non-critical. There's space on the prototype board for 6 wire shunts of 0.005 ohms each. The current limit is set by just selecting how many shunts are fitted, so one shunt = 20A, six shunts = 120A. The controller current limits at 100mV on the current sense input, so you can work out the current you'd get from any shunt you may have lying around, if you know its resistance, or you could just do it by trial and error. I have a feeling that the shunts used on the XieChang boards are also 0.005 ohm and about the right size, so my guess is that you could probably rob shunts from pretty near any controller and make them fit OK. There's plenty of space on the board to accommodate longer or shorter wire shunts.

There are a couple of tiny errors on those pics of the layout I posted yesterday. The capacitor on the phase A DC DC converter ended up on the wrong layer (you can see it in grey instead of red) and there is an extra 220uF capacitor shown at the lower left of the board. I replaced the latter with a 0.1uF ceramic, only because the capacitor got in the way of the connectors on the control board when it was mounted at right angles. You can see this in the second photo in this post: http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=23350&start=150#p346368

Jeremy
 
Jeremy Harris said:
Thanks for the enthusiasm, folks, but be aware this is still untested at high loads and may still have bugs.
Click to expand...
That just makes it more fun. :) It still has to work better than my proto-board version that smoked the first FETs I put on it, without hardly a load. :roll:

Sounds easy enough, regarding the shunts.
 
OK, I've had a go at separating the layers and making some DXF files for the power board. I've had to rename the files, because the forum doesn't like DXF files, so the file names will need changing from ending with .pdf to ending with .dxf. They are AutoCad 2000 DXF files, which should import into most CAD packages OK, I think. You will need to "right click, save link as" to save the files - the forum software thinks they are pdfs and your browser may try and launch the Adobe plug-in if you just click the attachment links.

Here's the component layer file:
View attachment 3

Here's the whole track layer file:
View attachment Controller driver - PCB V1.0 track layer.pdf

And here's the track layer minus the fills (not really great, as the pads are still all there for the drill hole placement):
View attachment Controller driver - PCB V1.0 track outline.pdf

These are all now in the public domain, so feel free to do what you want with them. There are some tiny changes to the controller driver circuit diagram, so here's the current version, as a PDF file:


Jeremy
 
3 cheers for Jeremy Harris!

Give me a bit of time & I will post some code & a orientation sketch for those who can work with it.
Thanks again!
 
OK folks, here are the files for the "brain" part of the controller, again I've changed the file extensions of the three DXF files to pdf, to allow me to post them. The circuit diagram is a pdf file, so should open OK directly.

First off, the track layer file, complete with fill:
View attachment Controller only - PCB V1.0 track layer.pdf

Next, the track layer file without the fill (but with still with pads):
View attachment Controller only - PCB V1.0 track outline.pdf

Next the component layer:
View attachment Controller only - PCB V1.0 - component layer.pdf

and finally the circuit diagram, as a proper pdf file:
View attachment Controller only - circuit diagram V1.0.pdf

Jeremy
 
LFP & Thud,

Put me down for 3 PCBs as well. Let me know how I can support the project.
 
EDIT 1/26/2011
Here is ISO gerber code to cnc cut boards for the controller.
After a few PM's back & forth with a couple guys having issues with the generic Post for Mach3 I refined the generator a bit & re-output the code. Its a little cleaner. (it will on EMC2 with simple edits)
Also some hobby cnc software apparently does not support "canned cycles" so we made the drilling programs using motion codes.....adjust the feedrates to the apropriate speeds (i have ZERO pcb machining experiance LOL)
Here you go:
View attachment 4
View attachment 3
View attachment 2
View attachment 1

lastly I added a scale to the artwork (to easly confirm correct sizing)for anyone wanting to try laser-jet & acid etching method for the main board..


I hope this is use full to some one.....I will edit this post to add any cnc related stuff.
Anyone having machinig questions can be handled via PM's so as not to clog this thread with non-controller chaff.
ES rules!
 
Thanks Thud, it's great to have your help on this. I need to get to grips with CNC stuff soon, as I have had a CNC mill project on the go for a couple of years now (no doubt it'll get finished one day.........)

Jeremy
 
thud,

could you check the engraving g-code. when i load it in an simulator (usbcnc). i get a lot of big circles. (lines of code starting with G03) but the correct g01 code is also there

mabye i am doing something wrong, but could you check what happens when you load the g-code?
 
J-aprilia-N said:
Hello
i also can't open the pdf files :oops:
Click to expand...

Some of the pdf files aren't pdf files, they are dxf files that have been re-named because the forum software doesn't allow dxf files as attachments, unfortunately. To open them, save them, edit the filename to end .dxf rather than .pdf, then use any CAD package that accepts 2D DXF files (the vast majority of them do).

Jeremy
 
I'm going to be trying to make some copper dust fly today with this code.
I'm excited!


Thud said:
Alright guys here is a couple programs for the "controller" board.
I downloaded a generic Post for Mach3 using VisualMill cam. (they are really "clutterd" programs but should run..I don't use Mach3, but it seems to be the most used controller by the home cnc crowd)
0,0 is the south-west corner of the board.

1st is a "trace" engraving program for the bottom side to be cut with a standard engraving too,l figurig .015" kerf on the cutter. I did not nibble away all the copper in the un-used areas. You will need to fugure the "z" set up for machine spcifice
View attachment 2
(you will need to remove the X-tra (.pdf) to veiw the text file

next is the drilling program:
View attachment 1
same treatment-remove the (.pdf) to see code

lastly I added a scale to the artwork (to easly confirm correct sizing)for anyone wanting to try laser-jet & acid etching method for the main board..I will add the controller board to the print later on


I hope this is use full to some one.....I will edit this post to add any cnc related stuff.
Anyone having machinig questions can be handled via PM's so as not to clog this thread with non-controller chaff.
ES rules!
Click to expand...
 
Hiya Luke...if you manage to get these boards made any chance i could buy one from you please. i reckon i could populate it with components no probs myself following pics and schematics but the whole board making thing is a lot of fuckin round without cnc IMO...

Lemme know if you can and the cost in materials freight time etc...

thanks in advance

KiM


liveforphysics said:
I'm going to be trying to make some copper dust fly today with this code.
I'm excited!


Thud said:
Alright guys here is a couple programs for the "controller" board.
I downloaded a generic Post for Mach3 using VisualMill cam. (they are really "clutterd" programs but should run..I don't use Mach3, but it seems to be the most used controller by the home cnc crowd)
0,0 is the south-west corner of the board.

1st is a "trace" engraving program for the bottom side to be cut with a standard engraving too,l figurig .015" kerf on the cutter. I did not nibble away all the copper in the un-used areas. You will need to fugure the "z" set up for machine spcifice
View attachment 2
(you will need to remove the X-tra (.pdf) to veiw the text file

next is the drilling program:
View attachment 1
same treatment-remove the (.pdf) to see code

lastly I added a scale to the artwork (to easly confirm correct sizing)for anyone wanting to try laser-jet & acid etching method for the main board..I will add the controller board to the print later on


I hope this is use full to some one.....I will edit this post to add any cnc related stuff.
Anyone having machinig questions can be handled via PM's so as not to clog this thread with non-controller chaff.
ES rules!
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
good morning jeremy

it works whit renaming it to dxf and open it whit cad
thanks :wink:
i had to read the forum better sorry :lol: :lol:

greetings from holland
 
Since this seems to be 'the learning channel' of electric propulsion, i need to ask a basic controller question.

It seems e-bike controllers with 12 FETs are generally recommeded for 500W bikes. 18FET controllers are for 750-1000W bikes. There are new concepts of even higher fets boards 24 + for higher power systems. Typically FETs in these systems are 70-95A each. (e.g. IRFP4410)

Jeremy's proposed controller project is suposed to be high power, but uses only a 6 FET system, with each IRFP4468 FET can handle 195A (Mongo FET!)

If higher power is needed, would it make sense to use a standard (cheapo) 12 FET box, replace the FETs with IRFP4468 195A, and beef up the trace lines?

What size bike motor would be appropriate for this 6 Mongo FET controller design?

Mark.
 
hardym said:
Since this seems to be 'the learning channel' of electric propulsion, i need to ask a basic controller question.

It seems e-bike controllers with 12 FETs are generally recommeded for 500W bikes. 18FET controllers are for 750-1000W bikes. There are new concepts of even higher fets boards 24 + for higher power systems. Typically FETs in these systems are 70-95A each. (e.g. IRFP4410)

Jeremy's proposed controller project is suposed to be high power, but uses only a 6 FET system, with each IRFP4468 FET can handle 195A (Mongo FET!)

If higher power is needed, would it make sense to use a standard (cheapo) 12 FET box, replace the FETs with IRFP4468 195A, and beef up the trace lines?

What size bike motor would be appropriate for this 6 Mongo FET controller design?

Mark.
Click to expand...

Interesting thoughts. The reason for using multiple small FETs in the Chinese controllers seems to be just cost engineering. There are Chinese copies of FETs in the TO220 packages that are dirt cheap to the manufacturers of these controllers, so they just use multiples of 6 when they want to increase the power. There are lots of reasons why this isn't a good solution, but cheapness wins over good when it comes to production stuff, it seems.

If it were possible to swap the big TO247 FETs into the small Chinese controllers then it could be done, but the package size is much larger and the pins don't fit the boards. Extending the pins isn't a good idea, because the gate drive connections need to be kept as short as possible. Also, the bigger FETs tend to have a higher gate charge, so need bigger gate drivers that are capable of handling fairly high current, in order to be switched efficiently.

Most of the cost in this controller is in the FETs and the commutation capacitors, both of which would need changing on a modded Chinese controller if you're aiming for high current.

My aim is to build a controller capable of driving the biggest RC type outrunner motors around. Existing high voltage sensored controllers struggle to drive these low time constant motors well, as they demand effective current limiting and efficient FET switching to work well. This prototype controller should be OK when driving a 7kW Colossus from a 60 to 65V or so supply, which is probably around 9 or 10hp peak, more than a lot of small mopeds and motorcycles. Running at it's maximum voltage of around 90 to 95V, then it should be able to run a 10kW motor with luck. The final version, using three big Ixys VMM 650-01F dual FET modules (680A, 100V, 1.8mohm) that a few of us have should be good for 20 to 30kW I hope, maybe a bit more. This isn't the sort of power that an ordinary bike frame is going to be comfortable with..............

Jeremy
 
hardym said:
Since this seems to be 'the learning channel' of electric propulsion, i need to ask a basic controller question.

It seems e-bike controllers with 12 FETs are generally recommeded for 500W bikes. 18FET controllers are for 750-1000W bikes. There are new concepts of even higher fets boards 24 + for higher power systems. Typically FETs in these systems are 70-95A each. (e.g. IRFP4410)

Jeremy's proposed controller project is suposed to be high power, but uses only a 6 FET system, with each IRFP4468 FET can handle 195A (Mongo FET!)

If higher power is needed, would it make sense to use a standard (cheapo) 12 FET box, replace the FETs with IRFP4468 195A, and beef up the trace lines?

What size bike motor would be appropriate for this 6 Mongo FET controller design?

Mark.
Click to expand...

Hi Mark,
The problem has been pushing the 6/12/18fets controllers to a point of driving say a 6kw motor, the smaller fet package that is used in the existing 12 fet controllers has a limited current capacity and also don't handle the heat to well, there are better fets that can be installed directly that do improve things 2 fold but again the ceiling have been hit with using the fet package used in these controllers use So now looking at better spec fets. These fets are a different package ( bigger ) The problem then is they will not physically fit onto the existing board of a 12 fet controller without some major mods to the board and case so thanks to Jeremy for taking the time to come up with a very simple ( and hopefully bomb proof design ) that will allow different configurations to be used for the power stage of the controller.
 
Hi Jeremy,

Making your design work for high amp situations is much welcomed. Maybe bikes don't handle more than 10kW well, but motorcycles do! I still hope your design will be able to drive the Mars motor I'm using for my Cagiva conversion. This motor is 10kW cont, 30kW for a minute... I'd be more then happy to test!!

Alex
 
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