Solar Catamaran, EV motor controller

yabert

yabert

10 W
Joined
Apr 23, 2016
Messages
99
Hi
We plan a solar Catamaran (45' around 20k lbs) powered by Nissan Leaf or Hyundai Kona EV motor running from a 16S NMC battery (58V nominal).
I test a motor at 52V with a ASI BAC 2000 and it work well.
As we expect to cruise at 8-10 kW with peak at 20 kW from two motors, we need bigger motor controller (40 kW peak from two powertrain).
So I think about using a ASI BAC 8000 or EZKontrol EZ-C481200 (we learn that this 1200A controller only have 600A bus peak and 300A bus continuous).

Is there any other choice with similar functionality and price?
Thanks
Solar cat-1.JPG
 
i don't know the present state of it, but would this one be useful?
endless-sphere.com

HESC V1 150v 600Amp VESC based motor controller

hello folks, I am working from sometime on Vesc based motor controller which can do 150volt and 600Amps at phase and 300 amps from battery. I am posting Schematics and features are as follows. Please have a look at them and Guide me if I am doing any thing wrong. 1.130v...
endless-sphere.com endless-sphere.com
 
amberwolf said:
would this one be useful?
Click to expand...
Considering that will be use on a boat, I'm looking for a highly reliable controllers and I hope to been able to stay away from prototypes and small production controllers.
What are the popular controller in this voltage/power range (48-72V and 10-15 kW)?
 
j bjork said:
most people run fardrivers
Click to expand...
They look to be popular. How easy to setup and reliable they are?
Do you think at a specific model who can fit our 10 kW continous/20 kW peak?
Thanks

AdR said:
trampaboard STR 500
Click to expand...
Seem nice, but the web site show:

Sorry this product is no longer available​

Still, many thanks to show me this supplier.
The VESC 75V 300A Mk.IV could do the job, but it really look to fit motorcycle and kart... not really to sustain 45' boat power for 10-15 hours.
 
Do your motors have hall sensors or encoders?
Fardriver has controllers for hall sensors and another version for encoders, but they can´t run sensorless like the Vesc controllers.
Setup is not very complicated. After the auto-tune it normaly runs without problems.
For long time use I would go for an Fardriver ND721000 with a watercooling plate.

A Link to one to run with hall sensors.
721000 on Ali
 
Here is the listing from the fardriver App, but I would ask the seller if the resolver from your motor is supported. Until today I have had only hall sensors in my setups.

0 Hall 120
1 Encoder
2 Encoder 4096
3 Encoder 8192
4 - 12 Encoder 4-12
13 Absolut Encoder L
14 Abslut Encoder H
15 Resolver Encoder
16 Hall 60 Grad
 
Nice, thanks to share. Look like a good contender.
At the moment I still think that sensorless controller look like a good solution to simplify things.
 
These motors might have higher resistance, probably you will also get much lower current.
In the worst case it could be 1/6 voltage x1/6 current = 1/36 of the original power.
I think it will be some where in between 1/6 and 1/36
 
Last edited:
DanGT86 said:
What about the Nucular 24fet?
Click to expand...
Wow!!!
Really like the design and features... and price too.
Compact, senseless control possible, IP67, autoruning... look like another great choice.
Is this compagny is faily new? I mean, is they produce controllers since few years and have good reliability?
They claim 3 years warranty.
 
Been around since 2016 I believe. This thread is the history of the company and the development of the controllers.

endless-sphere.com

Nucular electronics - complete kit for ev!

Nucular controller P24F Phase 500A Battery 350A Max power 27kW Max voltage 90V Functions: FOC with MTPA and Field weakening Square - sensored/sensorless Configurable throttle and brake curve Throttle modes: speed, speed+torque, torque, power+torque, power Multiple controllers on bus...
endless-sphere.com endless-sphere.com

When these came out there were not a lot of options for advanced highly configurable controllers. The smaller ones have always been a little hard to get because its a small operation. There was/is a telegram chat where you could get almost instant tech support from the owner of the company. Like a lot of small start up companies its hard to make the jump from hand building a few at a time to mass production. On top of that they moved out of Russia at the start of the Ukraine which is obviously disruptive.

I have not heard of reliability complaints. I have one of their 6 Fet controllers and I love it. Its super small. The motor detection works great and its generally smoother than any other controller I have tried. On a bike the power delivery is amazing and predictable. No deadband in the throttle from any speed. The controllers are offered fully potted so they are waterproof. I also love how you can charge from any DC source using the motor coils. It offers configurable pwm outputs for accessories and has multiple I/O ports for brakes and switches.

These days the VESC platform offers advanced FOC control and high power density but I still prefer my Nucular to any other thing I have tried.

The main downside has always been the waiting list for the smaller options. My guess is that the popularity of sur-ron bikes has lead nucular to prioritize the production of the 24Fet so they can be distributed to the hot rod sur-ron crowd. Probably more demand for that than DIY ebikes.

If I were going to buy one I'd want a check in from Vasily just to make sure they are still operating as normal. It's a little bit unsettling that the 6 and 12fet units were due this year and are not out yet. I would want to confirm that they are still in business before risking money on the 24fet. I really hope they succeed as a company.

Side note:
I have been a fan of your work for a long time. I remember watching the DRZ build over on DIY electric car years ago. I got a lot of inspiration from your projects. Looking forward to seeing another project from you.
 
Last edited:
Few months later, I'm really hesitant between Nucular controller P24F, 3shulmotors (probably C700) and VESC 75/300 (as 500A model don't exist anymore).
VESC is attractive an affordable, but I think it isn't in the same league that the two other. Can someone confirm me that spec ''Current: Continuous 300A, Burst 450A'' of the VESC isn't enough for a Nissan Leaf motor who will output 5 to 15 kW at 58V nominal?
VESC never explain if 300A is battery amps.

The spec of the two other:
Nucular: max phase current 500A, max battery current 350A
3Shul: 700A phase, 350A battery
 
I would expect the 300A spec on the vesc to be phase amp, as battery amp isn't very relevant for the controller. (it is probably not limited on battery amp)

I don't know if it have changed on the newer model, but the earlier nucular were more for the light bike category and would overheat pretty easy at higher load for longer time.

The spec on 3shul is max amp, meaning you would probably be able to run more like 550-600pA, it will trip overcurrent at 700.
 
j bjork said:
I would expect the 300A spec on the vesc to be phase amp, as battery amp isn't very relevant for the controller
Click to expand...
Thanks for your input. I also think that 300A continuous is phase amps.
In the case of a boat motor, phase amps and battery amps will regularly be the same at cruising speed if I design it correctly.
Acceleration doesn't matter (so phase amps) and only continuous amps at cruising speed matter.

The thing is I don't plan for a few minutes ride like it can be the case for off road motorbike.
I literally need power for 10 to 20 hours. Not a lot of power, let say 5-15 kW, but for very long period of time.
Is there chance that the VESC 75/300 can do the job?
 
I don't really know anything about the trampa vesc controllers, but they seem aimed at light duty. (Like skate boards)

I think it will be a matter of enough cooling, and I think the best bet would be the sevcon, fardriver, 3shul etc. design with a thick alu plate for cooling. If air isn't enough, it shouldn't be too hard to design watercooling for it. Actually it probably is already available for the ones I mentioned.
 
j bjork said:
it shouldn't be too hard to design watercooling for it
Click to expand...
Sure. Especially as I plan to use Leaf or Kona EV motor with watercooling.
Keep the controller cool is not a huge challenge when there is tons of 15-30°C water all around the boat.

I've just read this new detail on VESC web site: ''Attached To the premium copper cables are three genuine Amass XT90 connectors on the battery side allowing you to push up to 300 battery Amps''.
Still, I have hard time believe this little controller can handle 150-200A for hours. Despite if I connect the 3 tiny cable to a large 2/0 awg (70mm2) cable.
Of course I'm not the most knowledgeable people when it's question of mosfet.
 
A-DamW said:
Masinaelectrica/joulemotors(Netherlands) makes what looks to be some nice VESC-based controllers.
100-200kW continuous:
Click to expand...
Thanks for this, but it's not my goal.
If I had to go high voltage I would certainly reused EV components from Tesla, Chevy, Ford, Kia or so.
My goal is to keep everything compatible with 48V solar components, so I expect to find the perfect 60-72V motor controller to run an EV motor at low speed/low voltage (58V nominal) and low power 5-15kW.
 
I think I find interesting data about VESC controller by looking at this nice MakerX G300.
It based on the VESC 100/250 and rated ONLY 100A continuous.
So, the VESC 75/300 is probably only rated for 120A continuous :confused: :rolleyes:
1745582763922.png
 
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