Speeding up Prodeco Phantom X2

[oscholz]

I've had my Prodeco Phantom X2 for a couple of months now. I like it a lot, except that I'm bothered by the 20mph limit.
Below is a link to the Prodeco page for the bike, and the battery/motor details.

I called Prodeco, and their support person said that I should be able to swap the controller for a 36v 750w controller (since the battery is rated 750w peak), and get the bike to go faster. Then a contacted the dealer who sold me the bike to see if he could sell me such a controller, and he said that this wouldn't do anything, because the motor is maxed at 20mph.

I am not sure how I can achieve my goal of having a faster bike without selling this bike, and buying their Outlaw SS (http://prodecotech.com/bikes/outlaw-ss/), which goes 28mph.

Any help would be much appreciated!

38.4V 12Ah LiFePO4 24 Cell Battery
Rear Direct Drive 36V 500W Motor

http://prodecotech.com/bikes/phantom-x2/

 

[mattrb]

When you find out the Controller, please offer this information about it.

 

[Kingfish]

I ran into the OP today on the way into work. The controller appears integrated into the mount for the battery. The hub motor looks like a 9C clone. The cable came out of the axle end differently though.

As explained earlier, speed is relative to voltage, so you'd need to upgrade both controller and battery pack.

One idea - is to save your original investment on the battery and purchase a second one, tie them in series to get 72 Volts, then use a common 6-FET Chinese controller set for 100V max. Then through firmware - adjust your amps as needed. Just an idea :wink:

Speak to you soon, KF

 

[oscholz]

here are a couple of pics of the controller. It is under the battery.
Would the bike be faster with a different controller?

 

[oscholz]

Sorry, somehow the forum flipped the pictures. Not sure why.

 

[Eskimo]

Just give it 48V battery, lipo etc, and it propably hits 24-25 mph. That standard controller should take 48V if it"s any good. 20A/48V is enough for 25 mph. Other guys here know more.

 

[dogman dan]

The motor will only spin so fast on a given voltage. What that rpm is at 36v for example, depends on the winding it was built with. If you have 20 mph with 36v, then it's not an extreme slow winding.

Adding 12v, to go with 48v should get you 4mph more, even with the same controller. But it's possible that watt limiting in the controller itself will prevent the full 4 mph gain. So you might need to swap controllers. Try it with your present controller first I'd say.

In general, a stock generic 20 amps controller will get you 25-27 mph when given 48v. 48v x 22 amps is usually 1200w max seen on a wattmeter in the real world use.

For real speed, the 40 mph club usually takes a 40 amps controller and 72v. 40 amps will murder your current battery btw. So it's a fairly big investment, new controller, then new high current battery. 72v 20 amps might get you a solid 30-35 mph though, and your battery can take 20 amps most likely.

Like most things, the limits are not mechanical so much as in your wallet. The battery just takes all you have pretty much. The rest is easy.

 

[100volts+]

Subscribed

 

[100volts+]

I took a Phantom X carcass and replaced the battery, controller, motor and run it at 100v and 50a (amp limit of controller) I like the weight balance better too. With the wind at my back it'll do 50 or a little better.

 

[Kingfish]

^ +1: Nice conversion :wink:

Dogman said it better than I could.
~KF

 

[dogman dan]

Anybody know what winding the prodeco is? I'm assuming it's likely a 7 turn/2807/9x7. If so, 27 mph should be possible with 12v more.

But it's 20 mph at 36v, so its possible it's a slower winding, like an 8x8 or 7x9. Or the controller has some kind of speed limiting built into it. If slow motor, then more than 48v might be best. If the controller is the problem, you might get 3-4 mph more by replacing it with a cheap china 20 amps controller.

 

[Kingfish]

oscholz said it behaves in a manner like a pedelec. If it can be flashed then the speed limiter can be disabled/modified, and the pedelec wire pulled. I bet it uses old tech to limit voltage into the VR, hence 36V model vs 48V. Love to see the PCB; quality shots of both sides.

I observed the wiring coming from the motor was light duty and couldn't be larger than a stock 9C; the connector was barrel-type and hardly larger than the cable, so that would make the contacts low-A capable: He's power-gated by more than the controller.

My ½W, KF

 

[100volts+]

BTW, oscholz, in case you didn't know. The Phantom X is legal to ride on the street. My conversion is not.(although I ride it everyday to work) It's an unlicensed, unregistered, uninsured electric motorcycle with pedals.

 

[elvispilot]

BTW, oscholz, in case you didn't know. The Phantom X is legal to ride on the street. My conversion is not.(although I ride it everyday to work) It's an unlicensed, unregistered, uninsured electric motorcycle with pedals.

you are a boss sir.. i like what you just did

 

[elvispilot]

The motor will only spin so fast on a given voltage. What that rpm is at 36v for example, depends on the winding it was built with. If you have 20 mph with 36v, then it's not an extreme slow winding.

Adding 12v, to go with 48v should get you 4mph more, even with the same controller. But it's possible that watt limiting in the controller itself will prevent the full 4 mph gain. So you might need to swap controllers. Try it with your present controller first I'd say.

In general, a stock generic 20 amps controller will get you 25-27 mph when given 48v. 48v x 22 amps is usually 1200w max seen on a wattmeter in the real world use.

For real speed, the 40 mph club usually takes a 40 amps controller and 72v. 40 amps will murder your current battery btw. So it's a fairly big investment, new controller, then new high current battery. 72v 20 amps might get you a solid 30-35 mph though, and your battery can take 20 amps most likely.

Like most things, the limits are not mechanical so much as in your wallet. The battery just takes all you have pretty much. The rest is easy.

do you think a 51.2 volt 12ah battery with a 750 watt motor can make a bicycle run at 45kmh and juice out 20 miles per charge? u seem like a real pro. i have a very limited understanding about these motors/batteries and i don't have much time to read/experiment/build so i am looking forward to your answer mr dogman

 

[lantice13]

I got a 48V Phantom X "1st gen". I replaced my stock controller with one from cell_man " 6fet infenion controller" top speed on the flat was 22-23 mph depending on the wind. My CA peak reading was around 1.2kW. but most of the time it stays below 1kw. I opened up the stock controller and I can see 9 mosfet in there. the caps are rated 63v so I imagine they are 48v, 52v capable and a throttle swap and a 48v battery swap should give it a some boost. Oh and the 6fet controller that I got from cell_man is a direct swap with the motor wiring. Phase wires sequence and hall wire sequence all matches. Plug and play. I recently upgraded that slow turn 9c hub with a 10T MAC hub. I think it's better with a 10T MAC hub. wheelies from a dead stop and I get 26mph for now. My builds are at the ES facebook group.

 

[dzzy]

Ok so I have been looking at this problem and may have a solution. In the phantom x2 manual you can buy the hub motor seperate for about 200 dollars. So why not just contact prodeco directly and buy the Outlaw SS motor hub and put it on the phantom! You will need a new controller of course and I found it on ebay from the seller bike-smiths. This is the 28mph controller for the outlaw ss. He also sells a 16ah battery made specifically for the prodeco line of bikes. This may seem expensive but I have read a lot of people wanting to increase the speed of prodeco x bikes as simply as possible. This would simply be plug and play people. This is the ideal way to increase your speed (28mph), and your range to 30-50miles (If you were to buy another battery and carry the old one as a spare). Hope this helps :wink:

 

[lantice13]

That pretty much replaced the entire drive system. but I think you can just re use the old motor and just get that prodeco 48v 16ah battery and the bigger controller. I think the infenion controller that got a CA plug is better than the stock controllers. it should be the same cost. and they will be plug and play specially em3ev/cell_man controllers. Personally I like the slow wound DD of the Phantom X. they are good hill climbers. I think torque motor is the best over all motor for commuting. I didn't know prodeco got a 48v 16ah battery pack available. The one I've seen is the 36v 16ah battery. I might be wrong.

 

[lantice13]

or you could just retain everything and just get a faster winding motor. I think the Outlaw dd hub is a fast winding motor than the regular prodeco DD hubs. I think this is the simplest way to add speed without replacing the controller and the battery. still consider a geared hub motor for low power setups like this. I think you will be more satisfied with them.

 

[dzzy]

Just to make sure I am understanding. The em3ev/cell_man controllers would work with a prodeco battery with no soldering or anything? Right now the stock prodeco battery plugs into the battery and looks just like a house wall outlet. Think it would be simply "plug and play" with no knowledge or extra work required for the end user? The reason I ask is I want the outlaws motor hub, cell_man controller, and a lifpo4 battery as a really simple "kit" to recommend to other users. This would work for all the people who come here looking for help getting a bike past that "magic 20mph" barrier, under 750 dollars, Require very little technical knowledge and be extremely reliable at the same time. What do you think?

 

[dogman dan]

It won't be plug and play. More like replace some plugs, then play.

If the prodeco controller has speed limiting, then it might be the best thing to just replace the controller. The motor is just a dd brushless motor. So once you sort out the plug connections, it will run.

Information from others will help a ton. like what color matching of the wires on the phases and halls.

The motor will still go faster on 48v or 72v. How fast depends on if the winding is slow, or if the motor is just slow due to controller speed limiting.

If it's the motor, just run 72v.

 

[100volts+]

Not only is the Phantom motor dd brushless it also has hall sensors. With a Lyen controller and 72v of lipo it will fly. 40 mph will be no problem. Give it 100v and 130a and 60 is possible...wait i am getting carried away.

 

[lantice13]

actually they are plug and play.... literally. The only thing that is different is the main power lines connector. but that is just basic wiring. I upgraded my controller on my Phantom X with cell_man's 6fet controller befor I upgraded mine to a MAC motor. everything ,matches even the hall sensor wire arrangement on the plug are of the same arrangement. I'll post some photo later....

 

[lantice13]

Ok here are the photo that I've taken when I was upgrading the controller to a 6fet infrnon controller that I got from cell_man.

 

[lantice13]

Picture of the Phantom X48 =D before the MAC upgrade. no matter how high I set the amp limit on the CA, it wont go any faster than 24mph at 48v. it peaks at around 1.2kw and climbs hills at around 950w on WOT. it likes to stay below 1kw and near 500w cruising.