Stand-Up Full Suspension Off Road Bias E-Scoot Build(Help!)

[jerseyebiker]

Hi guys. HELP! A brief introduction. I have been building and riding e-vehicles from e- mountain boards to e-bikes from about the adaptation of consumer$ friendly brushless hub motors/controllers. With the introduction of the new Ebike laws in NJ all ebikes require a license, registration and insurance. No way I am insuring a 20mph bike lol. Scooters however are untouched.

I can source ebike stuff all day long without issue. Scooters I am clueless.

What I need:
-Be able to handle a 230-250# rider over 6ft tall.
-Must have full suspension and be able to handle aggressive riding offroad.
-Can NOT have folding handlebars. I will beat the snot out of this thing.
-Must have the largest diameter tires possible. Its filling the gap for an 18/21 inch ebike.
-Must be able to house a battery that equals 2000-ish watt-hours LIFEPO at 48v or higher voltage.
-Fork compatability that is downhill mnt bike quality. Gona beat this thing to death.

What I "want":

An offroad bias scooter that I will tune down to the legal limit until I get to the woods that will replace my heavily offroad bias, gearless hub driving, 3000watt max 48v full suspension ebike on 18/21 inch dot tires. I am all ears here. I know it would be easy to just go spend 2k or so on a tiny wheeled awd 5kw+ e-scoot but I would much rather build it myself and use as close to real MX parts as I can get. I will even use DOT rated tires if I can with Tubliss kits.

How far have I gotten?:

I have done nothing. I am having a terrible time sourcing even a frame. My search for larger diameter tires with full suspension keeps leading me to these downhill mountain scooters. Most of them being over 2k are a non starter. The frame has to be under or around 1k not including suspension or forks. I am truly lost here. Not having any experience with scoots I dont know what I am really buying. I dont want to spend 1k and ship something to my door that I cant use.

Have mercy on this poor soul! Thank you in advance for anything you can share! HELP!

 

[scianiac]

I mean what is a scooter? If I take the seat off a DH bike, put some pegs or side boards on and remove the drivetrain, how is that not functionally a scooter? OK so maybe you have to stand on it like a skateboard, fine I can cut the middle bit out and just have mountain bike forks and maybe a smaller rear wheel on the same swingarm. Honestly this is the way I would go if I wanted to make a scooter shaped device that is only like 80% a death trap off road. Full mountain bike fork and wheel, full mountain bike swingarm in the rear, maybe with a smaller wheel, platform in the middle. Like a more refined electric Grind Hard Death Scooter but you know without the death part not that it won't still be way more dangerous than a bike given the lack of vehicle control due to the stance but hey they are making these laws to make you safer right?

Realistically though without having to do lots of custom work I would go on alibaba and look around there, all sorts of vehicles can be found there for cheap and yes they may have some issues to address but you might find such a big wheeled scooter there.

 

[A-DamW]

Sorry to hear you have to switch rigs to be road legal.

The frame has to be under or around 1k not including suspension or forks.

If you have that kind of budget for a frame, I would look into a full custom frame from - MarinoBike

I have heard nothing but good stuff about him and his company, and he appears to build very high quality custom bike frames for ~$600

He would likely be willing to build a custom scooter frame to your specs.

I don't know what the tariff situation is between the US and Peru(marinobike is based there), but it is probably better than Asia in general.

Also, read his story, pretty cool.

 

[Ianhill]

Ive had a few scooters over the years and what ive found is the more suspension travel available the worse the scooter travels at speed because the higher up you stand to allow that suspension travel, im 6ft but 180 so little slender to yourself but on kaabo etc find i stand really tall.

All depends how extreme you want to go theres nothing stock i can think of that does not have a fold mechanism of some kind and thats the worrying point with a fair bit of weight.

Ive had one snap on me in the past but luckily the bars where still attached just the fold had broke so i had room to slow and stop but could of been alot worse very lucky.

To make it yourself will take some serious thinking and searching for components and id suggest tryibg to find a stock scooter that fits the needs like a kaabo etc and then set about beefing it up.

 

[scianiac]

Unknown quality for sure but has the right shape https://www.alibaba.com/product-det...2h8l&priceId=6b199c5bdc474212aba41fb1b8eba4a8

 

[RunForTheHills]

Something like this?

 

[jerseyebiker]

Unknown quality for sure but has the right shape https://www.alibaba.com/product-det...2h8l&priceId=6b199c5bdc474212aba41fb1b8eba4a8

Yup that is exactly what I need. The wheel base is a touch short. If the frame can handle 230-250# rider AND another 50# of battery and gear it would be a candidate. I would have to modify the rear swingarm to accept a larger axel. Remove the rear bag rack. New rims, tires and brakes. New Forks bars ect.

It all boils down to is the frame going to hold up. Do I buy one and take a chance. Returning it is simply not going to happen.

I also thought about installing a lowered platform on this bike in the photo. Remove the seat bracket. Has 18/21 dot wheels. Super reliable setup. Limited on drop ins and air time with the rear hub but its been a great bike with 16k miles of almost all offroad use.

 

[jerseyebiker]

Ive had a few scooters over the years and what ive found is the more suspension travel available the worse the scooter travels at speed because the higher up you stand to allow that suspension travel, im 6ft but 180 so little slender to yourself but on kaabo etc find i stand really tall.

All depends how extreme you want to go theres nothing stock i can think of that does not have a fold mechanism of some kind and thats the worrying point with a fair bit of weight.

Ive had one snap on me in the past but luckily the bars where still attached just the fold had broke so i had room to slow and stop but could of been alot worse very lucky.

To make it yourself will take some serious thinking and searching for components and id suggest tryibg to find a stock scooter that fits the needs like a kaabo etc and then set about beefing it up.

So the bare minimum in the offroad world for a tire is about 12 inches and that is pretty sad for a tire size. That rules out all Kaabo types. Its just to dangerous and they dont make any kind of usable traction.

I hear you relating to the height but that is a pain every offroad vehicle suffers. You either have clearance to ride or you dont ride. This scooter will never see over 20mph on the road and will average 10-20mp on dirt.

Relating to parts the frame is the hard part. It lays down the framework for everything else. After the frame its pretty easy.

 

[jerseyebiker]

Something like this?

That is the same frame scianiac posted.

Its a good candidate:

*The only usable part is the frame and swingarm.
*Need to fabricate aluminum platform.
*Need to fabricate swingarm to accept larger axel.
*All new forks, wheels, Tires, bars, breaks ect.

Sounds like I need to find the non electric version of this frame if there is one and it would fall in my price range for this project.

 

[E-HP]

Ive had a few scooters over the years and what ive found is the more suspension travel available the worse the scooter travels at speed because the higher up you stand to allow that suspension travel, im 6ft but 180 so little slender to yourself but on kaabo etc find i stand really tall.

Slightly off topic:
What do you feel is a comfortable deck height to not feel too tall? When I look at the Kaabo scooters, the deck height looks slightly taller than the 10” wheels, while the scooter I’m looking at, Ausom DT2, looks even or a tiny bit lower that the height of the wheels. Anyway, I saw this thread, wondering what DIY options there are, but started looking at prebuilt since I’m not looking to fabricate parts/frames. I started looking at the deck heights after a reviewer mentioned what you pointed out about being high off the ground.
I don’t think I’ll do much off-road, but the Ausom looks good for climbing 20%+, and I haven’t seen many that can climb steeper grades, that aren’t also built for off-road (taller).

 

[scianiac]

Yup that is exactly what I need. The wheel base is a touch short. If the frame can handle 230-250# rider AND another 50# of battery and gear it would be a candidate. I would have to modify the rear swingarm to accept a larger axel. Remove the rear bag rack. New rims, tires and brakes. New Forks bars ect.

The thing about these Alibaba sellers is if you ask they will probably sell you one with a lot of the parts you don't want missing or just the frame. Depends on if they are the manufacturer or a reseller. I do wish they put the battery between your feet instead of higher in the downtube though. Also if you look around you might be able to find one in a similar configuration but made from steel tube which would make modifying and reinforcing if needed much easier.

 

[jerseyebiker]

Slightly off topic:
What do you feel is a comfortable deck height to not feel too tall? When I look at the Kaabo scooters, the deck height looks slightly taller than the 10” wheels, while the scooter I’m looking at, Ausom DT2, looks even or a tiny bit lower that the height of the wheels. Anyway, I saw this thread, wondering what DIY options there are, but started looking at prebuilt since I’m not looking to fabricate parts/frames. I started looking at the deck heights after a reviewer mentioned what you pointed out about being high off the ground.
I don’t think I’ll do much off-road, but the Ausom looks good for climbing 20%+, and I haven’t seen many that can climb steeper grades, that aren’t also built for off-road (taller).

The answer is what ever you need for your application and you feel comfortable with. If you start a thread I am sure you will get tons of help finding an out of the box solution. There are so many scooters out there, just none that do what I want

 

[E-HP]

The answer is what ever you need for your application and you feel comfortable with. If you start a thread I am sure you will get tons of help finding an out of the box solution. There are so many scooters out there, just none that do what I want

Sorry, Ianhill just described something I hadn’t thought about. He mentioned the Kaabo, so that was a good reference point.
I’m glad I read your thread. Thanks for pointing out the legal “opportunity” that excludes these scooters from the kind of requirements that cover e-bikes. I looked into it here and see something similar (the law here basically says don’t ride fast or on the sidewalk). I’m finding the saddle being uncomfortable for longer rides lately, so the scooter thing is looking like a good solution, with a broad range of possibilities.

Not off-road, but full suspension and approaching from the opposite side of the spectrum:

Still big scooting in San Jose.

Just an update on my San Jose scooter. 2 - 12k watt QS 273 motors on 17” x 6” rims. 2 - 72v. 680 amp FarDriver controllers, independent keys, dual three speeds. 2 - 72v. 87.5 Ah lithium polymer batteries. 2 - 150 amp active balancing BMSs. 0 to 60 in around 3 seconds. Range about 100...

endless-sphere.com

 

[Ianhill]

Ill be honest with you guys its been a while since ive looked at he scooter market in detailso i used the kabbo as that was all the rage few years back but now im not sure, i see the mountain bike based scooter pictured above looks fairly low so should be ok i would of thought with decent maxis tyres etc

This is going to be hard to believe but one of the best off road scooters i had was a modded razor e300 on 4 inch tyre with about 10 psi on a 48v brushed motor geared really low so just climbed and climbed but topped out around 18mph very simular to required needs and was so light i could pop it over fences was a proper billy goat.

Cost me few hundred to chuck it together was easy enough for spares and if it breaks it breaks but it never did i ended up selling it and the boy broke his leg on it compound fracture into a car and police took it and crushed it.

Moved on/back to bikes then but I still like a scooter with zero suspension as long as the tyre has a large side wall to do some damping it is still fairly comfatable, as the legs do the bending and the bars move back and for around the arms wrist joint so holding on with gravel roads is fine i found and even offroads not to bad good to jump few inchs and super light to throw around.

 

[jerseyebiker]

The thing about these Alibaba sellers is if you ask they will probably sell you one with a lot of the parts you don't want missing or just the frame. Depends on if they are the manufacturer or a reseller. I do wish they put the battery between your feet instead of higher in the downtube though. Also if you look around you might be able to find one in a similar configuration but made from steel tube which would make modifying and reinforcing if needed much easier.

I have sent out inquires asking just that very thing.

 

[jerseyebiker]

After testing my platform theory with my current bike I found it to be wildly horrible. I made a rebar platform real fast...It was not pretty but did the job. I was trying to turn something into something its not meant to be. A stand up e-scooter like something Kaabo makes is a totally different animal. I calculated how big the bike would be with 16 inch tires and a reasonable platform and its super long and all of the existing frame designs are to low to the ground.

*Would never be allowed on public transit.
*Will cost 3-4k to build it to carry someone my weight with the power I want on the terrain I travel.
*It would suck even putting it in a minivan

A good friend of mine has a son in his early 30s who has 11 different e-scooters. He had a few Kaabos, Gspace, and a bunch of bin parts scooters like the Teewing z4. After spending a few hours with him cruising his neighborhood I am now looking for a 12-14 inch tire dual motor stand up scooter platform comparable to the Teewing Z4 bin scooters.

I am going to embrace the stand up scooter platform that exists and try to scare myself a little bit I was a huge fan of my 2000w 2wd mountainboard. Cant wait.

Thanks to everyone who chimed it. Helped me get there faster.

 

[Ianhill]

Glad you managed to have a try of a few to see what you prefer cant beat suck it and see looks only say so much sometimes an inner character shines through.

Myself never tried a big wheel scooter to know but did like a small footprint scooters under 40kg or so not that bigger and heavier have no purpose but i didn't travel more than half my time on roads and the other half was steep incline dirt roads rutty and full of big stones so 20 was plenty for that aspect of my ride.

Considering that i decide to gear low to keep my efficency higher more of the time and increase the range, something that a hub motor ride would be incapable of so theres alot to consider, try keep the battery sidlze to needs if possible so the weight you lug around aint more than whats needed etc.