Steveo's Replica e-crazyman 133v Success!

[steveo]

The wheel is spinning crazy fast!!!.. It's like we just expect that the tire could get out of the rim!!!

Be carefull with these fets!.. they only are 79A and 16 mohm... Just quater of the 4110.. so I would recommand keeping the shunt current limit under like 40A


Oh.. and i forgot... did you said that the caps are 160V??.. If so, you must replace them for 200V.. the rules about these controller is usually

72V=100V cap
100V=160V caps
133V=.. probably 200V... and ... low esr..

And... how much voltage does the regulator see at it's input?... did you needed to replace the large flameproof kilohms resistor for a higher resistance to reduce the heat dissipation on it?

And.. thanks for sharing that!

Doc

I think your right about the shunt .. I think i have way to much solder.. i will open to remove some to prevent the fets from blowing on me ...

Thanks for the fyi on the caps .. I will probably order some ; I will still test with my 160v caps thou !!

I think those big resistors are only seeing 33v doc not the full 133v .. they are original resistors in controller.

I think voltage regulator only still see 50v; i have not opened to test at this kind of voltage.. When i did my 90v testing on this controller .. from 66-90v and sense wire always at 66v mark .. the regulators stayed at the same voltages.. i think one at 50v ... one at 22v.. and one at 14v...

-steveo

-steveo

 

[solarbbq2003]

crikey

 

[solarbbq2003]

put my first vid on youtube...woohooo...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJeH1a55X_Y
x5303 85volt 35amp v2 controller 79km/hr 3 wheeler with fairing, at end of ride going up hill capacitor solder came unstuck ( my dodgey soldering at fault led to fet failure), will be puting decent brakes on before trying to go faster only had rear caliper almost useless as a brake. Start of run is slight downhill flatens out when I get near top speed but held that speed along the flat, on 35amp when start to going uphill speed drops off very sharply, x5303 on this vehicle a bit useless on hills.

 

[Doctorbass]

put my first vid on youtube...woohooo...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJeH1a55X_Y
x5303 85volt 35amp v2 controller 79km/hr 3 wheeler with fairing, at end of ride going up hill capacitor solder came unstuck ( my dodgey soldering at fault led to fet failure), will be puting decent brakes on before trying to go faster only had rear caliper almost useless as a brake. Start of run is slight downhill flatens out when I get near top speed but held that speed along the flat, on 35amp when start to going uphill speed drops off very sharply, x5303 on this vehicle a bit useless on hills.

Nice speed test!

 

[Sacman]

Videos as promised; no load test.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L07t4TrkChI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2r8bRab8Oho

THE GATE RESISTORS ARE NOT GIVING NO PROBLEMS AT HIGHER VOLTAGE !!

Steveo,

Nice work with the controller mods and making/sharing them on videos. Very impressive speeds indeed (139kph or 84mph). Seeing your wheel RPM's spinning up so high (kind of like a dremel) I can't help wondering if your regular rubber bike tube and tire will fall apart from the outward centrepital force. Are your tires and tubes rated for speed?

Yesterday I asked Deafscooter the same question when I saw how fast his rear wheel on his scooter spun up. He said he was definitely running speed rated tires. I took a video clip of him demonstrating his high RPM wheel spin-up. Here it is...

[youtube]O8sWNBLXRKw[/youtube]

 

[steveo]

133v Test run

I bridged the 2 shunt wires together with the thinest layer of solder i could and here is the result

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PDzj2zosU2M

92km/h

-steveo

 

[Doctorbass]

x 1000

Steveo.. now i know you are more crazy than me!!

it should scare you a bit on a bike at that crazy speed!!! 57.2MPH !!

it's like if you would go back with the 26" rim it would be 100km/h!!

we want to see you on the highway!!.. lol.. i'm jocking!

but something similar to [youtube]E81KFTsi__c[/youtube]

Doc

how much power at that speed (stabilized ideally)...?

Doc

 

[drunkencat129]

LMAO doc steveo was on the side lines i was the one who was crazy enouf to get the wheel of that mad ness lol its rides oke other then brake fade lol it still had some more left in it tho i ran out or road tho lol almost went threw the garadge of the guy at the end of my street with it lol i love the speed i want more o it even started to get some fog on my antifog skii gogggles lol to lol also wasent as bad stibility wise as long is a keped my head down it was oke lifted it it got a little un stable needs to be lowered tho whats my 2c lol

 

[steveo]

x 1000

Steveo.. now i know you are more crazy than me!!

it should scare you a bit on a bike at that crazy speed!!! 57.2MPH !!

it's like if you would go back with the 26" rim it would be 100km/h!!

we want to see you on the highway!!.. lol.. i'm jocking!

Doc

how much power at that speed (stabilized ideally)...?

Doc

Hey Doc

The fets can take more then you think; I was very happy to see everything go well!!

I know you said max 40 amps ... but i compare with the PNF75NF mosfets .. and they are the same amps wise except one is 75v max and other 150v max..

so far everything has been working.. the feeling on the bike is indescribable. I has a constant torque .. you will never max it on any residential road .. you will have to slow down before your even get close to max speed! I estimate shunt at 65amps MAX! again i don't have cycle analyst configured nor have i checked with watts up meter yet..!!


******minor controller issue********

I haven't figured out what it is.. but the controller at very low speed of say 20km/h has a shutter effect .. kind of like a hall sensor wire is broken.. but when you stomp on the throttle a little bit more you get nice juicy acceleration all through top end without any problems..

Any ideas on what it could be .. Gates??? this only happens when the motor is on load.. with no load it has no issues..

-steveo

 

[rgody]

Steveo :

First of all : amazing videos, congratulations.

Unfortunately those batteries are not sold in my country (Chile).
But I have similar controllers!
And I am electrical engineer and I have 2500 Watts 60 Volts scooter motor to wich we will install spokes in order to achieve 90 km/h.

Regarding your problem , can you tell me the voltage and current when problem happened ?
May be I can help you.

Rodrigo

 

[steveo]

Steveo :

First of all : amazing videos, congratulations.

Unfortunately those batteries are not sold in my country (Chile).
But I have similar controllers!
And I am electrical engineer and I have 2500 Watts 60 Volts scooter motor to wich we will install spokes in order to achieve 90 km/h.

Regarding your problem , can you tell me the voltage and current when problem happened ?
May be I can help you.

Rodrigo

Hey

The issue happens when the controller is run at 133v anywhere for the stock 30 amp - 65amp shunt range was the same issue..
I will confirm tommorw if it has the same issue at 100v .. I presume it is the higher voltage..

I have the same controller with 4110 mosfets.. working perfectly with no problems.

-steveo

 

[philf]

Hey Steveo...

I've done some weird things with the power supply to the same controller you appear to be using. The power stage is normally a set of cascaded linear regulators (I had replaced this with a cooler running switching affair). When I initially did this, I had mis-connected the 15V feed to the board (the FET section needs the 15V feed).

Anyways, weirdly enough, the controller worked anyways - but exhibited exactly the same symptoms you describe. Low-speed juddering under load, but smoothed out once you got moving. When I found the problem, I was stunned that the thing worked at all.

 

[steveo]

Hey Steveo...

I've done some weird things with the power supply to the same controller you appear to be using. The power stage is normally a set of cascaded linear regulators (I had replaced this with a cooler running switching affair). When I initially did this, I had mis-connected the 15V feed to the board (the FET section needs the 15V feed).

Anyways, weirdly enough, the controller worked anyways - but exhibited exactly the same symptoms you describe. Low-speed juddering under load, but smoothed out once you got moving. When I found the problem, I was stunned that the thing worked at all.

Hey

Could you further explain what i would need to do to correct the issue? did you find how to fix the issue?

-steveo

 

[philf]

I just went back to look at earlier posts to see what you were doing with the power supply, and I didn't see any references to any radical modifcations (forgive me if I missed it)...

Your board is fully populated with all three linear regulators - a 7824, cascaded into a 7815, cascaded into a 7805. As you know, there are resistors ahead of this cascade to drop the raw battery voltage to what the 7824 can tolerate. You can't get away with putting much more than 40 volts into a 7824 before its output starts to creep upward. If that voltage passes 35V, then the the 7815 is going to be in trouble, and so on... I saw a reference in an earlier post with respect to the output from the regulators...

"I think voltage regulator only still see 50v; i have not opened to test at this kind of voltage.. When i did my 90v testing on this controller .. from 66-90v and sense wire always at 66v mark .. the regulators stayed at the same voltages.. i think one at 50v ... one at 22v.. and one at 14v..."

I dunno if I've missed something, but if you're referring to the linear regulators you pictured at the beginning of this thread, the output of each regulator should be 24V, 15V, and 5V (respectively). Notwithstanding the potential of frying something, I'm not sure what side effects this could cause. The microcontroller itself has the widest (spec'd) operating voltage range, but there are logic gates on that board which really want 5V. The FET driver circuit is expecting 15V.

Anyways, my juddering issue (that smoothed out at cruising speed) came when the 15V output went missing (bear in mind that I completely removed the linear regulators and replaced the whole affair with a different design). Sounds like the same circuitry might be responsible for your problem - but the question is... Is it not getting 15V, or has it been toasted from being overvolted?

Again, apologies if I've missed details you've already posted - I'm just going on my interpretation of the quote I italicized above... In fact, just re-reading it - I'm wondering if the voltages you were stating isn't what is at the INPUT of each successive stage. If this is the case, the only one you're pushing is the 7824.

Hmmmm...

 

[steveo]

I just went back to look at earlier posts to see what you were doing with the power supply, and I didn't see any references to any radical modifcations (forgive me if I missed it)...

Your board is fully populated with all three linear regulators - a 7824, cascaded into a 7815, cascaded into a 7805. As you know, there are resistors ahead of this cascade to drop the raw battery voltage to what the 7824 can tolerate. You can't get away with putting much more than 40 volts into a 7824 before its output starts to creep upward. If that voltage passes 35V, then the the 7815 is going to be in trouble, and so on... I saw a reference in an earlier post with respect to the output from the regulators...

"I think voltage regulator only still see 50v; i have not opened to test at this kind of voltage.. When i did my 90v testing on this controller .. from 66-90v and sense wire always at 66v mark .. the regulators stayed at the same voltages.. i think one at 50v ... one at 22v.. and one at 14v..."

I dunno if I've missed something, but if you're referring to the linear regulators you pictured at the beginning of this thread, the output of each regulator should be 24V, 15V, and 5V (respectively). Notwithstanding the potential of frying something, I'm not sure what side effects this could cause. The microcontroller itself has the widest (spec'd) operating voltage range, but there are logic gates on that board which really want 5V. The FET driver circuit is expecting 15V.

Anyways, my juddering issue (that smoothed out at cruising speed) came when the 15V output went missing (bear in mind that I completely removed the linear regulators and replaced the whole affair with a different design). Sounds like the same circuitry might be responsible for your problem - but the question is... Is it not getting 15V, or has it been toasted from being overvolted?

Again, apologies if I've missed details you've already posted - I'm just going on my interpretation of the quote I italicized above... In fact, just re-reading it - I'm wondering if the voltages you were stating isn't what is at the INPUT of each successive stage. If this is the case, the only one you're pushing is the 7824.

Hmmmm...

Hey

I will further investigate the issue; as you know snow has hit us today .. so the bike comes inside for winter and minor maintance.

To narror things down .. I will re-test controller at 100v to see if it will give the same problem .. if it does i will open the controller to measure the voltages of each regulator "7824,7815,7805"

I will keep the sense wire at the 52v mark ( this is where the wire originally belongs from when it was stock.

I will let you know my findings asap!

-steveo

 

[fechter]

The shuttering problem could also be some kind of feedback in the current limiter circuit. At really high voltages, high load and low speed, you might be hitting the fast current limiter.

I haven't dissected the infineon version yet, but the older ones have a two stage current limiter circuit. One stage is filtered (slow) and limits the average current. The other stage is fast and is designed to limit the peak current. The peak setting is much higher than the average setting.

If you reduce the battery current limit and the problem goes away, then it would a likely cause.

It might be possible to filter the fast limiter, but then it wouldn't be fast enough to save the FETs in the event of a short.

 

[steveo]

The shuttering problem could also be some kind of feedback in the current limiter circuit. At really high voltages, high load and low speed, you might be hitting the fast current limiter.

I haven't dissected the infineon version yet, but the older ones have a two stage current limiter circuit. One stage is filtered (slow) and limits the average current. The other stage is fast and is designed to limit the peak current. The peak setting is much higher than the average setting.

If you reduce the battery current limit and the problem goes away, then it would a likely cause.

It might be possible to filter the fast limiter, but then it wouldn't be fast enough to save the FETs in the event of a short.

Hey Fechter

Based on what your saying; It is almost certain its to due with the low speed regulator. I believe the shuttering is occuring right before it switchs over to the second stage regulator. rolling speed 5km/h is fine i est between 5-15km/h is when it occures, then when you punch it all the way to top end speed everything functions fine.

I will do some further testing asap!

-steveo

 

[steveo]

Hey Everyone!

I have tested my 133v controller back at 100v and the shuttering at low end speed it still there. I don't know if this is a good or bad sign at this stage. I'm not aware if the controller showed this problem before the upgrade of fets/shunt/caps. I presume there is something damaged, perhaps one of the regulators or maybe this issue is due to the higher resistance in the fets.

Further update @ 3:16am

I have changed all 3 regulators and no difference;

I have test shuttering at:

133v
100v
33v

when the voltage is lowered the shutter occurs at a lower speed

Does anyone think its due to the higher resistance in the mosfets? the FDP2532 are known for higher resistance yet allower higher voltages

-steveo

 

[solarbbq2003]

antonio in italy ( I forget which name he uses to post on here), also put same fets into a v2 controller, and had similar issue at higher volts with the shuddering thing.

 

[solarbbq2003]

what was lowells speed record last year?

 

[fechter]

Does anyone think its due to the higher resistance in the mosfets? the FDP2532 are known for higher resistance yet allower higher voltages

-steveo

I don't think the on resistance of the FETs would cause that, but you never know. Some controllers use the voltage drop across the FET as a current measurement, but I don't think this is the case since there is a shunt.

 

[drunkencat129]

maby it can be ajusted to stop shudering in the programing is that posible or maby a fulty gate resister on one of the phases i had the same proble with the 3 speed controller remember steve lol trying to match it to ur xlite wheel lol also i had an odd problem at work one tie the motor whould do the same i found it was mixed hull sencers there where 3 types i made them all one type and hade no problem maby it has somthing to do with how fast the amps run threw the controller maby ???

 

[solarbbq2003]

hows it going with 133v steveo? any probs or still going ok?

 

[philf]

I have a habit of checking Steveo and Doc's "last visited" dates on their profile pages - just to make sure they haven't electrocuted themselves (or, perhaps managed to hit 88MPH and wound up back in 1955...).

Good news - they're still with us

 

[D-Man]

His bike is probably still limping around like a wounded animal. :lol: