Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

[sn0wchyld]

KTM E-XC is heavy at 245lbs. I have a Zero FX but like the Sur-Ron much better on tight single track trails because of the light weight, power isn't everything. And I've had KTM's, 360 2 stroke and 640 ADV. Better suspension and more power than the FX but electric wins for me. A new entry is the Ubco FRX1. Looks a lot like the Light Bee, a little heavier and a lot more expensive. Lots of choices. https://www.ubcobikes.com/us/frx1-trail-bike/

That frx1 is the production version of the Neematic. Search the forum for Neematic and you will find out the long way it had from idea to actually being a product people can buy.

It is a few lbs heavier then the sur ron but promises more power. But then again almost 2.5 times as expensive as the sur ron so that would sure get you a lot of upgrades for the sur ron, including a 80v battery pack, upgraded controller, better suspension and better wheels and tires. Don't know really if the frx1 is "all that" anymore. If they had manged to release the bike at the initial time line it would have hit the market before the sur ron, and it would have been a whole different game.

Maybe the frx1 will compete against the RevX. At least price wise they are a close match. And it seems people who have ridden the RevX is very pleased, despite the price so surly that is one contender to consider before signing the dotted line for a frx1 purchase.

pretty much in agreement here. I'm still bummed that they dropped the pedals - would have bought one otherwise. That said, the Boxx bike looks very good imo - and lighter again, with comparable power/torque. May well have bought one by now if not for corrona.

Surron is 'good' because its so light, and offers some potential for easy upgrades (granted, motor temps may be an issue but mine's handling 7kw (stock battery limit) and 500phA (roghly 2.5x stock) without issue given its winter here atm. Summer may require me to add a water cooling loop but that wont be so bad given its an in runner. KTM and similar are defiantly more 'serious' bikes but for me them being north of 100kg is a turn off... I can ride the surron in my back yard - the KTM would be too big and cumbersome.

 

[Offroader]

I'm bummed that my KT84 temp prove is bad in my motor because I can't monitor the temps. It will be interesting to see just how hot this motor gets internally with the nuclear controller. Temperature was such an issue with hub motor bikes and so far has not been an issue with the sur-ron, but that was before the nuclear 24fet controller.

Still waiting for my new probe to come form asia and then I'll have to install this thing which won't be fun considering I have to open up the motor.

My favorite times to ride are those 90degree + days, the overdrive is a killer on motors and I'm pushing the bike constantly to 50MPH. I like to ride the steep hills also.

 

[Offroader]

I've been really happy with my bike and upgrades so far. This bike was great stock but amazing with the upgrades.

So far I've upgraded the following and all were well worth it.

1) Saint / Zee brakes. Made a huge difference in the braking ability and control.
2) Hi rise handlebar, huge difference in feel and control of the bike. A must upgrade, and best first upgrade.
3) Nuclear 24fet controller, this thing gives the bike ridiculous amount of power and also throttle controlled regenerative braking, + higher top speeds.
4) 18" shinko 241 x 3.00" rear tire, this was well worth it. The feel of 10 PSI and a fat tire gives the bike such a great feel. The tire rubber is very soft and great for the light sur-ron. Traction is also improved and the tire wears slower on the rear. This is in my opinion the best dual purpose on/off road tire you will get and the 3.00" size is perfect size for this bike.
5) Thumb throttle, while most of you hate thumb throttles this gave me much better control, the stock throttle was terrible. This was very worth the upgrade for me. Honestly, for me this is my best overall upgrade.
6) Fox 26" front fork, I don't want to say this was a necessary upgrade because I would have to put the stock fork back on but when I installed it, I was very happy with the upgrade and felt like it was a good improvement. I would have to put the stock fork back on to see how much it really helps.

Future upgrades:

Avalanche suspension upgrade on the fox fork, my biggest issue with the fork is when landing high jumps to flat ground I blow through the travel and hear a loud knock. The Avalanche will convert the Fox 40 air fork into a dual fork using both air spring and coil spring. Giving the best of both worlds, air and coil. Supposedly the upgrade will give the bike a much better feel for all riding.

Rear Shock: I want to upgrade the rear shock with a modified avalanche Fox shock. While the rear feels fine, it seems it could be better. The avalanche upgrades will also tune the bike better for the heavier sur-ron and hopefully heavier rear wheel. Going with a heavier 18" rear wheel has made the rear a little more jolting, but not much. The rear stock shock is only a 3.00" stroke and not even a 3.50" stroke.

Battery? I'm not sure about this yet, while a battery upgrade will give me lots more power, I still want to play it safe and not get hurt. Remember, if you get an injury it could be with you for life and it isn't worth it. I already am pushing the limits with safety and if I get more power, I will probably do more stupid stuff and do stupid stuff faster. I'm going to stick with the stock battery as it is powerful enough for my skinny body weight. You guys who are 200+ lbs may need a power upgrade, I don't really know how much body weight affects the acceleration of the bike.

Front light: I want to replace the sur-ron front headlight with a much higher powered, higher quality, headlight for riding in the woods at night. I'm talking about a high quality powered 6000+ lumen light, with good optics for short and long distance.

 

[sn0wchyld]

I'm bummed that my KT84 temp prove is bad in my motor because I can't monitor the temps. It will be interesting to see just how hot this motor gets internally with the nuclear controller. Temperature was such an issue with hub motor bikes and so far has not been an issue with the sur-ron, but that was before the nuclear 24fet controller.

Still waiting for my new probe to come form asia and then I'll have to install this thing which won't be fun considering I have to open up the motor.

My favorite times to ride are those 90degree + days, the overdrive is a killer on motors and I'm pushing the bike constantly to 50MPH. I like to ride the steep hills also.

so far so good for me - even at 500phA and low speed high accel situations (riding in my ~250sqm back yard) it doesn't go much above 60C, though im usually only doing 15-20min sessions. Winter here too, so ambient is ~15-20C. Still, in the same conditions, my Mxus v3 4t with FF and hub-sinks would be hitting its temperature limit (140C) in about 5 min, and that runs 330phA and gives way less torque. I'd imagine you'll be hitting the thermal limits of the motor without some additional cooling, but it is defiantly in a different league to normal hub motors, both in terms of torque and thermals. Wouldn't be too hard to add some liquid cooling too, but I'd wait and see if its actually an issue for you first.

And yea, i switched to thumb throttle too. Feels way better - particularly as its kinda hard to grab this smaller bike with your legs/feet, lets you grab with your hands too vs a twist.

 

[X-Nitro]

Orlov got his hands on a nice looking e-moto a few weeks ago..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_mhMqbLZ8zM

 

[sn0wchyld]

Orlov got his hands on a nice looking e-moto a few weeks ago..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_mhMqbLZ8zM

seems like a very fair review. Gotta say, the suspension on the surron does leave something to be desired. does well enough but the front end is already sticking somewhat, and never feels quite solid. Just need to stay off it long enough to swap out the front end for some fox's or some smaller mx options

 

[fechter]

Orlov got his hands on a nice looking e-moto a few weeks ago..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_mhMqbLZ8zM

That looks like a pretty nice bike. I love the part at the end of the video where he goes to the gas station.

 

[Rix]

Orlov got his hands on a nice looking e-moto a few weeks ago..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_mhMqbLZ8zM

seems like a very fair review. Gotta say, the suspension on the surron does leave something to be desired. does well enough but the front end is already sticking somewhat, and never feels quite solid. Just need to stay off it long enough to swap out the front end for some fox's or some smaller mx options

I would love to put some Hlebo Bros valved CR85 forks on the SurRon. That would help immensely with a 3-4 pound weight penalty.

 

[KeithT]

Torp claims it is 29kg https://www.torpmotors.com/torp_bike/?et_fb=1&PageSpeed=off How do you get from a Light Bee at 50kg, go to 15kW and lose 21kg? Did they weigh it without the battery?

 

[Gnomadic99]

I am about to pull the trigger on a Sur-Ron through Luna but can't make up my mind on one of the upgrades. I am hoping y'all can help.

Specifically, I want to upgrade to the belt. I am not a very mechanical person so I am okay paying for that upgrade...but the Luna website strongly recommends also upgrading the supermoto wheels to avoid "lugging the motor." Frankly, I don't want to pay to upgrade the wheels as I will rarely use the bike on pavement. Instead, I will be toodling around some rural property (hopefully seeing some wildlife) and will almost never push the bike to its limits.

So, my question is this: If I upgrade to the belt and don't upgrade the wheels, will I cause harm to the engine or degrade the performance in any significant way, do you think? I'm not really concerned about the speedo issue.

I appreciate very much any thoughts y'all might have on this subject! And I apologize if this question has been asked and answered already.

Richard

 

[efMX Trials Electric Freeride]

do not get the supermoto 17" wheels or the Luna belt kit, for off-road use.. bc it's geared for street not steep climbing and the smaller wheels will lower the bike ground clearance.. if you must have a belt kit get the kit from Allex on here bc it's geared for the 19" wheels.. but you will likely have to install it yourself.. also, why belt if it's private property?? doubt the birds and deer will be that bothered by the chain drive.. especially at "tooling around" speed..

 

[LeRdubois]

I
4) 18" shinko 241 x 3.00" rear tire, this was well worth it. The feel of 10 PSI and a fat tire gives the bike such a great feel. The tire rubber is very soft and great for the light sur-ron. Traction is also improved and the tire wears slower on the rear. This is in my opinion the best dual purpose on/off road tire you will get and the 3.00" size is perfect size for this bike.

that's what i was thinking to do next. i'm happy with the shinko 241 but i want a 3.0 tire, not bigger and no knobbys (they eat too much battery). i can't find the 3.0 or 3.25 19" in EU. i was advised for a duro hf307 on the FB group but no stock neither. your shinko 18", is it heavier than the 19 ?
also 1.6 or 1.85 width rim for 3.0 tire what do you think is best ?

when i came with the idea of a 18" rear instead of the stock people told me "it will drop the rear end and feel harsher over bumps". did you notice that too ? i'm new to this world but since the shinko is so tall it will compensate ?

what about a 21" front upgrade in the future for your bike ?

 

[sens_dep]

Anyone got their hands on the new electric throttle? I found one here https://mall.sur-ron.com/products/sur-ron-electronic-throttle-assembly, but the don’t ship to the US. Ideas? Can someone source one for me?

 

[Gnomadic99]

do not get the supermoto 17" wheels or the Luna belt kit, for off-road use.. bc it's geared for street not steep climbing and the smaller wheels will lower the bike ground clearance.. if you must have a belt kit get the kit from Allex on here bc it's geared for the 19" wheels.. but you will likely have to install it yourself.. also, why belt if it's private property?? doubt the birds and deer will be that bothered by the chain drive.. especially at "tooling around" speed..

Thank you for your reply! To be completely honest, my interest in being silent has to do with mountain lions. I’ve had several sightings and was in my truck recently and saw one fairly close up. If I’d been in/on a much quieter vehicle I could have gotten much closer. I will contact Allex!

 

[efMX Trials Electric Freeride]

Anyone got their hands on the new electric throttle? I found one here https://mall.sur-ron.com/products/sur-ron-electronic-throttle-assembly, but the don’t ship to the US. Ideas? Can someone source one for me?

you may need to use an importer, exporter.. paging art vandalay..

 

[X-Nitro]

Anyone got their hands on the new electric throttle? I found one here https://mall.sur-ron.com/products/sur-ron-electronic-throttle-assembly, but the don’t ship to the US. Ideas? Can someone source one for me?

If you play social media games there are 4 being held ransom by a yt channel...just follow and share to win

 

[Offroader]

I
4) 18" shinko 241 x 3.00" rear tire, this was well worth it. The feel of 10 PSI and a fat tire gives the bike such a great feel. The tire rubber is very soft and great for the light sur-ron. Traction is also improved and the tire wears slower on the rear. This is in my opinion the best dual purpose on/off road tire you will get and the 3.00" size is perfect size for this bike.

that's what i was thinking to do next. i'm happy with the shinko 241 but i want a 3.0 tire, not bigger and no knobbys (they eat too much battery). i can't find the 3.0 or 3.25 19" in EU. i was advised for a duro hf307 on the FB group but no stock neither. your shinko 18", is it heavier than the 19 ?
also 1.6 or 1.85 width rim for 3.0 tire what do you think is best ?

when i came with the idea of a 18" rear instead of the stock people told me "it will drop the rear end and feel harsher over bumps". did you notice that too ? i'm new to this world but since the shinko is so tall it will compensate ?

what about a 21" front upgrade in the future for your bike ?

If you keep the front 19x2.75 the shinko 241 18x3.00 size is exactly the same size as the front tire. My recommendation is to keep the front 19x2.75" size, I would really just keep the stock tire as it is very good and light weight for the front. The rubber is also very soft and works well with the light weight sur-ron.

The shinko 241 is heavier and it weighs about 3lbs more than the front 19" front tire.
Weights in KG are : 19" 2.75 tire = 2.00kg
Shinko 241x18" = 3.30kg


I would not use a 21" on the front because you will have to use a really large and heavy tire on the rear to keep the tire sizes similar. Unless you wanted to raise the height of the bike then I would keep the 19x2.75 front and 18x3.00 rear. I would also try and keep front/rear tire sizes similar because the bike was probably designed around having the same size tires.

I'm not sure what shinko 241 tire you run but the 3.00" version is made specifically for the rear of bikes and has a very soft rubber compound. I run mine at 10PSI and it is a very good tire. Great if you ride both on and off road.

When you drop from a 19x2.75 to an 18x3.00" tire, the tire is much fatter and you can run the PSI lower, so you will get a less harsh ride. You have much more air in the tire in 3.00" tires vs 2.75" tires.

I went with 1.6" for the rear to keep the weight down. Some people here said I should have used a 1.85. My 1.6" weighs only 1300grams, and am happy with the light weight of the rim. I think you should make the decision based on rim weight.

 

[X-Nitro]

The 1.6x21" Impact rim only weighs 220grams more than your 19"

 

[sn0wchyld]

The 1.6x21" Impact rim only weighs 220grams more than your 19"

I gotta say too running a 26'' on the front of mine does make it 'feel' better for the most part... bars do want to 'flop over' at low speeds/rolling over small stuff but otherwise bike is more comefortable to ride and feels more poised above walking pace. Thinking of getting a 21 built because I want something stronger that I can slam into stuff in ways I cant with the bike wheel though, plus safer at speed, particularly on road.

 

[LeRdubois]

The shinko 241 is heavier and it weighs about 3lbs more than the front 19" front tire.
Weights in KG are : 19" 2.75 tire = 2.00kg
Shinko 241x18" = 3.30kg

I wanted to know if the 3.0 18" shinko was heavier than the 19" same dimension?

I would not use a 21" on the front because you will have to use a really large and heavy tire on the rear to keep the tire sizes similar. Unless you wanted to raise the height of the bike then I would keep the 19x2.75 front and 18x3.00 rear. I would also try and keep front/rear tire sizes similar because the bike was probably designed around having the same size tires.

thanks to merlin here he found a 2.8kg 80\90 21"tire that will go perfectly with a light Prowheel rim w/12G-13G spokes. as for keeping the wheels the same size....i don't know why you think that way. i've ridden lots of dirtbikes in my youth and there always was a bigger front. also the 19" of the surron is not confidence inspiring getting thru rocks and downhill.

I gotta say too running a 26'' on the front of mine does make it 'feel' better for the most part... bars do want to 'flop over' at low speeds/rolling over small stuff but otherwise bike is more comefortable to ride and feels more poised above walking pace. Thinking of getting a 21 built because I want something stronger that I can slam into stuff in ways I cant with the bike wheel though, plus safer at speed, particularly on road.

i've also tried a 26" front and that's what motivated me to go 21" moto. overhall feeling of the bike is really improved, it feels more of a dirtbike and less of a toy. even on pre-production pictures of the surron the front is a 26".
the mtb wheel with a duro wildlife 3.0 was really not suited to my riding style. too light, weak, front end wanted to come up so easily...i wonder what is like on the lmx

 

[macribs]

Orlov got his hands on a nice looking e-moto a few weeks ago..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_mhMqbLZ8zM

seems like a very fair review. Gotta say, the suspension on the surron does leave something to be desired. does well enough but the front end is already sticking somewhat, and never feels quite solid. Just need to stay off it long enough to swap out the front end for some fox's or some smaller mx options

The idea of converting an existing mx/enduro bike into electric is all that. Then you choose your drivline to match the donor capability you know what to expect and will be very well set for that type of riding. However I do think there is a place and a time for smaller bikes, more nimble bikes with shorter wheelbase and an even lighter overall weight.

For this bike in the video I am not sure that bike will be people's favorite. 7850 $ price tag. And ACE suspension? Unless Ace did something magic in the past two years it seems that it will be an entry level suspension if that. Tbh. I think price was too high for what you get.

 

[macribs]

Torp claims it is 29kg https://www.torpmotors.com/torp_bike/?et_fb=1&PageSpeed=off How do you get from a Light Bee at 50kg, go to 15kW and lose 21kg? Did they weigh it without the battery?

Must be a very light weight frame, swing arm and maybe a light weight RC motor?
Sur ron frame is about 7 kilo, so very hard to gain a whole lot of advantages there. But with the right material and strength calculations 2-3 kilos should be possible. Don't remember what the sur ron motor weight is. But RC motors are about as light as they come. Rims and spokes can shave a little weight, same as tire choice.

But yeah shaving off 21 kilos seems like a really tough challenge.

 

[Rix]

Torp claims it is 29kg https://www.torpmotors.com/torp_bike/?et_fb=1&PageSpeed=off How do you get from a Light Bee at 50kg, go to 15kW and lose 21kg? Did they weigh it without the battery?

Must be a very light weight frame, swing arm and maybe a light weight RC motor?
Sur ron frame is about 7 kilo, so very hard to gain a whole lot of advantages there. But with the right material and strength calculations 2-3 kilos should be possible. Don't remember what the sur ron motor weight is. But RC motors are about as light as they come. Rims and spokes can shave a little weight, same as tire choice.

But yeah shaving off 21 kilos seems like a really tough challenge.

I think thats a mistake, or it was weighed without the battery and he went with carbon fiber everything from handle bars to footpegs and carbon fiber MTB rims and tires.

 

[Offroader]

thanks to merlin here he found a 2.8kg 80\90 21"tire that will go perfectly with a light Prowheel rim w/12G-13G spokes. as for keeping the wheels the same size....i don't know why you think that way. i've ridden lots of dirtbikes in my youth and there always was a bigger front. also the 19" of the surron is not confidence inspiring getting thru rocks and downhill.

You have to try it to see how it works. You should really compare the larger front with the 19" front while keeping the rear tire the same. I wouldn't change both wheels at the same time.

One thing you have to understand is that dirt bikes which have different size wheels were probably built and designed like that from the factory and the frame was also designed like that to keep a certain geometry.

There will be trade offs with changing up the geometry of the bike. You will lose low speed handling for better higher speed handling for example. I find the sur-ron great at low and high speed, and since I ride both and think the sur-ron handles great, I don't want to mess around with my geometry for fear I may make it worse.

The sur-ron engineers probably put a lot of thought into the bike and the geometry and handling. From downhill racers, it seems you can really mess up the handling of the bike by changing things just a few degrees.

These are things to think about, a lot of it is complicated and I don't understand it all but going by what I read a million of times on downhill biking forums. This is why I play it safe and rely on the sur-ron engineers and their expertise in what they thought was best for this bike.

 

[AZeBikeGuy]

...The sur-ron engineers probably put a lot of thought into the bike and the geometry and handling. From downhill racers, it seems you can really mess up the handling of the bike by changing things just a few degrees.

You are *far* more optimistic about how much "thought" chinese engineers' put into their designs than I am

OTOH I agree that changing the geometry is a nuanced thing and that it doesn't take much to screw up handling