Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

[jph3]

I spoke with Gary tonight, and felt it was necessary to point out... we are (or I am) splitting hairs here. The Fastaces are a fork they are producing for Surron and are spec'd as a downhill mountain bike fork (they are not the moto fork per their website)... the RST's are $50 more from the factory, hence the upgrade. Neither one of these are going to knock your socks off. We bought the bike for the Frame, Battery, Controller and Motor... the suspension is just not the priority item in the build list no matter how you slice it.

Anyway, my experience with, and my perspective of Luna continues to get better. For whatever its worth at this point...

 

[Hyena]

the RST's are $50 more from the factory

I'm still not sure how this adds up. I dont know what the forks cost from fastace but I do know how much the RSTs are wholesale. And I know that what surron charges for a set of the fastace as a replacement spare part is twice the wholesale price of the RSTs...
I'm not sure if this is Luna trying to cover for shipping the wrong forks and making it look like a positive or if this is a mark up coming from the factory.
Adam are the RSTs a $50 option ? They weren't before, right ?

 

[Aebrennan]

The front suspension is optional at no charge, you can choose RST, Fastace (new spring version) and now DNM USD-8S.

For an additional cost they will build the bikes with whatever suspension you want, obviously you must meet MOQ.

Im sure many have seen the early images showing varying front wheel/fork/brake combinations.

These bikes are being built to be sold as cheap as possible, then allowing the buyer to customise/upgrade.

 

[Allex]

Hey Hyena,

Of course that is not how we answered. He didn't seem happy with the range in cold weather.... So we offered a full refund (no restocking fee) on a lightly used bike.. but of course shipping back is not included since the bike was not defective.

I wont continue on the subject here because it's not the place to do it. But I will say this, there are 2 sides to every story.

Back on the FASTACE ALX13RC fork.. The model on the Sur-Ron is a fork for downhill pedal bikes just like the RST! It's not a motocross (or mini pitbike) fork at all it's only made for pedal bikes according to the 2018 FastAce catalog. It's too big to post but you can download it here: http://www.fastace.com/sup.php

JRH doesn't lie. If he said his bike arrived at his door with the battery completely discharged and the "air switch" on, then thats how it arrived. JRH would not make this up. Mistakes from the manufacture happen, and that may be the case here. Whether or not the battery was damaged long term wise is yet to be seen. For what its worth, my Sur-ron arrived and is in perfect working order. Thank you Luna!! As far as customer service goes, I have found when dealing with foreign non primary English speaking individuals, things get lost in translation, could this be the case?

Rix, would be great if you could write wbout your experience with the bike so far, its your first electric mid, right?

 

[Blade59rt]

[...... I'm also feeling like they're kind of blowing me off...but I don't know, don't want to assume anything.

I got the same vibe when I opened a ticket for my bike being shipped with a totally dead battery and the air switch turned on, I figured it was smart to alert them after the bike went into limp mode 40km into an EP mode street ride. 0v on the terminal when I got the bike, BMS was tripped, charger wouldn't work, and I had to reset the BMS as the instructions indicate by pushing the red button on the charger. Took 20 minutes to get it back up to LVC, which means it was a few amp hours below "dead" SOC.

The response from luna was : your battery was not dead. That is impossible. Your air switch would not have been on. They are test ridden before shipped. There is no way the BMS was tripped. We will do nothing for you until YOU prove the battery capacity is low, and you will also pay to ship it back.

They refuted every thing I said and never once said they would take care of me. I understand they probably have a lot of bunk warranty claims, but I've lost respect for the owner and Gary with the way they tried to gaslight me on this. They didn't tell me what they wanted to see specifically from tests, and simultaneously criticized me for not having done whatever tests they want to see. I had to ask directly three times on what they wanted to see, and it was essentially an uncut video of me riding while having a wattmeter on the bike. At this point, I'm not expecting them to act favorably to my fork having the air leak.

In short, Luna has the "resting bitch face" of customer support. They either don't understand their extremely shitty and condescending tone, or they know what they are doing and don't care. Either way, worst customer support treatment I've ever had. I got frustrated enough to threaten a credit card chargeback.

Yikes...I am doing my research now. I went to the facebook page for Luna and read a lot of mixed reviews. The bad seem really bad and your outta luck after a purchase. Makes me, being a possible new customer, very leery about dropping close to 4k on a product. How has everyone else's purchase/experience been with Luna?

 

[johnrobholmes]

This isn't the place to discuss service issues? Where would Luna prefer, on their own forum where it can be deleted at any time? Nope, this is exactly the place for it to be shared. My side is that I got nothing but attitude and gaslighting. Luna's side is that they offered a refund... on a bike that is perfectly normal... Is that being a good business, or is that knowing they would be better off nipping this one in the bud before I start sharing my experience?

If 40km of range IN EP MODE is typical in cold weather, then yes I would be extremely unhappy with the bike when it is clearly stated to have up to 80 miles of range on the front page! That's only 30% of what is advertised. That isn't just being unsatisfied and returning a "used product", that is being sold a faulty or mis-advertised product! To be honest, I haven't gotten that far into a charge again and simply smoothed things over and said "no worries" and blamed it on cold weather. I was worn out and tired of fighting after over 10 emails getting nowhere. I *think* I got the assurance that IF there is a range issue again soon that they will take care of it. Gary wore me out, but I know that I can go to YouTube and ES to rectify this situation for them, if needed. Even further, I have the ability to fix or buy a new pack myself without Luna's help and don't really care if they resolve the situation, but they pulled the profit off this sale and I will attempt to hold them to some sort of service.

Still though, the answers were specifically contradicting what I was telling them. Battery was received with 0v on the terminal. The response- no it wasn't. Battery wouldn't charge because the BMS was tripped. The reponse- no it wasn't, that is impossible. I have concerns over the bike going into limp mode only 40km into an EP mode ride on the street. The response- that is not a problem. They tried to catch me in some lie every chance possible, twisting my words around to make it seem like it was my fault or that I was clueless about what ebikes are.



At this point I would still like to buy a second bike, even asked if Luna would like to do a discount in trade for heavier marketing in my vids. Which now it looks a whole lot like me spending money to work for them... But I'm extremely hesitant to send Luna any more money after being treated like an idiot, especially after seeing they are substituting forks without informing buyers.

 

[stonezone]

The response from luna was : your battery was not dead. That is impossible. Your air switch would not have been on. They are test ridden before shipped. There is no way the BMS was tripped. We will do nothing for you until YOU prove the battery capacity is low, and you will also pay to ship it back.

What is the air switch? Or where is it?

As for the customer service I was super skeptical based on my pre-purchase experience... but Gary has responded late at night and favorable to helping out. My guess is he is overwhelmed and needs some additional help? I’ve owned a couple small businesses and if you have bad things popping up in that department it’s typically from a growth spurt or just a bad product. Their products overall seem to be well known as good...

I think he's referring to the circuit breaker underneath the battery door that a lot of people don't turn on and freak out about. To be honest it shouldn't have been left in the closed or "ON" state. That could potentially drain the battery although it shouldn't have with the key out. It does sound like you may have gotten a faulty bike/controller/battery. I really hope they do take care of you. Gary has been fairly reasonable with me so far, but when I inquired about the Fastaces, he said they no longer have any adjustment and are just a stock spring? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think Fastace offers any fork without at the very least rebound and compression. Maybe he was mistaken, who knows. Again, I don't want to assume, but it does seem like they want me to just keep my RST which I found on eBay for $475.00 aka not really a high end fork, considering what I've seen on prices for other better forks. Not that they’re terrible or anything, just stating some facts. Heavily considering just ordering a set of DNM USD-8S and installing those and selling my RSTs that have 4 miles on them (street and maybe 200 ft of grass).

Anyone want to sell their Fastaces or trade? Can't seem to find those online. I did find a Fastace set with the forks and the guy wanted $1400.00, and that's a hell no sorry. The forks I can get for that money...don't even get me started.

i'll sell my FA forks... i live on oahu though so shipping might be a little more... pm me with an offer.

 

[efMX Trials Electric Freeride]

[...... I'm also feeling like they're kind of blowing me off...but I don't know, don't want to assume anything.

I got the same vibe when I opened a ticket for my bike being shipped with a totally dead battery and the air switch turned on, I figured it was smart to alert them after the bike went into limp mode 40km into an EP mode street ride. 0v on the terminal when I got the bike, BMS was tripped, charger wouldn't work, and I had to reset the BMS as the instructions indicate by pushing the red button on the charger. Took 20 minutes to get it back up to LVC, which means it was a few amp hours below "dead" SOC.

The response from luna was : your battery was not dead. That is impossible. Your air switch would not have been on. They are test ridden before shipped. There is no way the BMS was tripped. We will do nothing for you until YOU prove the battery capacity is low, and you will also pay to ship it back.

They refuted every thing I said and never once said they would take care of me. I understand they probably have a lot of bunk warranty claims, but I've lost respect for the owner and Gary with the way they tried to gaslight me on this. They didn't tell me what they wanted to see specifically from tests, and simultaneously criticized me for not having done whatever tests they want to see. I had to ask directly three times on what they wanted to see, and it was essentially an uncut video of me riding while having a wattmeter on the bike. At this point, I'm not expecting them to act favorably to my fork having the air leak.

In short, Luna has the "resting bitch face" of customer support. They either don't understand their extremely shitty and condescending tone, or they know what they are doing and don't care. Either way, worst customer support treatment I've ever had. I got frustrated enough to threaten a credit card chargeback.

Yikes...I am doing my research now. I went to the facebook page for Luna and read a lot of mixed reviews. The bad seem really bad and your outta luck after a purchase. Makes me, being a possible new customer, very leery about dropping close to 4k on a product. How has everyone else's purchase/experience been with Luna?

you can also get Sur-ron light bee in usa from

https://www.sur-ronusa.com

 

[jph3]

you can also get Sur-ron light bee in usa from

https://www.sur-ronusa.com

Nope. Kim was getting his supply from Luna, but that’s off the table. There’s only one place to buy, Luna has exclusive rights to US market.

 

[Rix]

Hey Hyena,

Of course that is not how we answered. He didn't seem happy with the range in cold weather.... So we offered a full refund (no restocking fee) on a lightly used bike.. but of course shipping back is not included since the bike was not defective.

I wont continue on the subject here because it's not the place to do it. But I will say this, there are 2 sides to every story.

Back on the FASTACE ALX13RC fork.. The model on the Sur-Ron is a fork for downhill pedal bikes just like the RST! It's not a motocross (or mini pitbike) fork at all it's only made for pedal bikes according to the 2018 FastAce catalog. It's too big to post but you can download it here: http://www.fastace.com/sup.php

JRH doesn't lie. If he said his bike arrived at his door with the battery completely discharged and the "air switch" on, then thats how it arrived. JRH would not make this up. Mistakes from the manufacture happen, and that may be the case here. Whether or not the battery was damaged long term wise is yet to be seen. For what its worth, my Sur-ron arrived and is in perfect working order. Thank you Luna!! As far as customer service goes, I have found when dealing with foreign non primary English speaking individuals, things get lost in translation, could this be the case?

Rix, would be great if you could write wbout your experience with the bike so far, its your first electric mid, right?

I was going to do this after my next ride with some pics. My phone settings gave me some crappy pics and I didn't want to post them. Maybe this Sunday I will get something going with pics.

 

[efMX Trials Electric Freeride]

you can also get Sur-ron light bee in usa from

https://www.sur-ronusa.com

Nope. Kim was getting his supply from Luna, but that’s off the table. There’s only one place to buy, Luna has exclusive rights to US market.

if that's the case then maybe motomoto should take down the site ..

 

[artisanstone]

I got mine today. I had to meet fedex guy at the main road. I didn't realize it came on a tractor trailer. OMG I love it. It is exactly what I've been looking for. My use is riding around property as a play bike, riding with kids, etc. Only assembly problem I had was removing front axle from temp shipping block. Mine has the killah forks. Toolkit has one 8mm allen. You need two, one to hold left side of axle, other to remove lock nut (backwards threaded). Mine had 73% charge, it's down to 40 something now with quite a bit of use. I would say it's similar to a big wheel pitbike the large diameter tires make it nice for the woods. I've got nothing bad to say so far, other than dealing with Luna seemed sketchy. It was all communication related, just made me nervous sending that much money.

 

[johnrobholmes]

Mine had 73% charge, it's down to 40 something now with quite a bit of use.

This feedback from other buyers why my interactions seem sketchy. I receive a battery that is so dead that the SOC display won't turn on and Luna's response is that they are all shipped in a low SOC. So low that the BMS had tripped and the battery terminals were zero volts? Why yes sir, they are all shipped with a low SOC, and you are also wrong that the BMS had tripped. So low that it took amp hours just to bring it up to LVC? Why yes sir, totally normal, nothing to worry about, and don't forget that you are also wrong.

They told me anything that would cover their ass on shipping out a dead as a doornail bike. The longer I mull this over, the more their gaslighting and sidestepping pisses me off!


I'm waiting patiently for a response about my defective fork. I made sure to ask directly if they were going to fix it, because they have not volunteered any reassurance of customer support in any of our previous interactions.



Since my bike hit limp mode when the SOC was 40% on the battery indicator, can anybody else tell me when theirs goes into 25mph mode?

 

[artisanstone]

Mine had 73% charge, it's down to 40 something now with quite a bit of use.

This feedback from other buyers why my interactions seem sketchy. I receive a battery that is so dead that the SOC display won't turn on and Luna's response is that they are all shipped in a low SOC. So low that the BMS had tripped and the battery terminals were zero volts? Why yes sir, they are all shipped with a low SOC, and you are also wrong that the BMS had tripped. So low that it took amp hours just to bring it up to LVC? Why yes sir, totally normal, nothing to worry about, and don't forget that you are also wrong.

They told me anything that would cover their ass on shipping out a dead as a doornail bike. The longer I mull this over, the more their gaslighting and sidestepping pisses me off!


I'm waiting patiently for a response about my defective fork. I made sure to ask directly if they were going to fix it, because they have not volunteered any reassurance of customer support in any of our previous interactions.



Since my bike hit limp mode when the SOC was 40% on the battery indicator, can anybody else tell me when theirs goes into 25mph mode?

Yeah that's messed up. Your videos were part of my buying decision. Also, I tried to buy from Kim because I liked the way he came across on his website. My bike did not show up on time. I called fedex and the hub manager was happy to hear from me. He said he had been trying to get my phone number from Luna to arrange delivery for two days with no response. This is my first experience in the ebike world. I do expect a little more service when spending large chunks of money especially doing it on line.

 

[Blade59rt]

I got mine today. I had to meet fedex guy at the main road. I didn't realize it came on a tractor trailer. OMG I love it. It is exactly what I've been looking for. My use is riding around property as a play bike, riding with kids, etc. Only assembly problem I had was removing front axle from temp shipping block. Mine has the killah forks. Toolkit has one 8mm allen. You need two, one to hold left side of axle, other to remove lock nut (backwards threaded). Mine had 73% charge, it's down to 40 something now with quite a bit of use. I would say it's similar to a big wheel pitbike the large diameter tires make it nice for the woods. I've got nothing bad to say so far, other than dealing with Luna seemed sketchy. It was all communication related, just made me nervous sending that much money.

Nice to hear you got lucky and received it like it should.
And with a battery not dead 0%.
You would think Luna would catch on that people talk on forums and if they have bad service its gonna spread like wildfire. Just do the proper thing and take care of "every" customer and your business will boom. I am still on the fence with this purchase.....

 

[johnrobholmes]

I'm pretty sure they will do me right if an issue comes of my battery. I wish I could say that they made it clear from the beginning, but I honestly never even got a positive affirmation on this, but they also didn't refute me when I told them I was confident they would handle an issue if it arose.

Right now they have made it clear that they don't want me as a customer and would have rather refunded the bike, even told me that I wasn't a customer and would not be able to buy another battery pack after I threatened a chargeback. I apologized to them about over reacting (they respond to self blame), and then they were happy to sell me another battery at full price. Which they never got back to me about... :|


Since they know I'm being vocal about the situation now, I'm not holding my breath on having continued support for the battery or fork. If I am promoting them with videos that are over 1/4 million views now, and they blatantly refuse to believe my situation, how are they going to handle a regular customer with an issue? I know that I have influenced many sales. If needbe I will work twice as hard to ensure people don't get involved with the wrong company. Ball is in their court, let's see how they handle my fork problem.

 

[artisanstone]

I must have the older fork then. BTW, do you have any 58t sprockets laying around I can buy?

I have a factory 58t that I got from "Sun Tong" a guy that works for Sur-ron and and is a dirt national champion in China.
I let him borrow a Sur-ron bike when he came over to scout the US national supermoto series which he is going to compete
in starting in Boise Id come April. I built a fixture and have the Solidworks file which I showed and have a sheet of 7075 material
to carve up. I might make up 52 tooth sprockets because the blanks are 9 inches and the 58t are 10 inches. The sheet is 48.5 inches
wide and I don't want to waste any material. I will get 30 58t blanks and 22 52t blanks out of the sheet I have.

By the way, Sun Tong wheelied the Sur-ron bike in our parking lot in an amazing way, using the rear brake to balance
the bike. So impressive. I have spent untold hours trying to get up to speed with it, and show glimpses of having it.
I should get some video but have a problem of choking when I think others are watching.

Kim, do you know if the latest bikes have the tip over sensor (or maybe it was a brake sensor) that messes with wheelies like your website mentions? I'll find out myself I'm sure. I found it difficult to get the front wheel up significantly because of the way the power is metered at low rpms, but I'm figuring it out.

 

[m3t]

I'm pretty sure they will do me right if an issue comes of my battery. I wish I could say that they made it clear from the beginning, but I honestly never even got a positive affirmation on this, but they also didn't refute me when I told them I was confident they would handle an issue if it arose.

Right now they have made it clear that they don't want me as a customer and would have rather refunded the bike, even told me that I wasn't a customer and would not be able to buy another battery pack after I threatened a chargeback. I apologized to them about over reacting (they respond to self blame), and then they were happy to sell me another battery at full price. Which they never got back to me about... :|


Since they know I'm being vocal about the situation now, I'm not holding my breath on having continued support for the battery or fork. If I am promoting them with videos that are over 1/4 million views now, and they blatantly refuse to believe my situation, how are they going to handle a regular customer with an issue? I know that I have influenced many sales. If needbe I will work twice as hard to ensure people don't get involved with the wrong company. Ball is in their court, let's see how they handle my fork problem.

Really sorry to hear this. I’ve had terrible customer service before (but not by Luna) and it sucks. Ruins your week for sure. According the other members I’ve been conversing with, Luna seemed to be pretty decent in terms of their service. I haven’t had any issues with them other brief responses and sometimes conflicting info. Id be pissed too though if I were in your shoes.

 

[fechter]

The customer service issues really should be in the Vendor Relations Corner section of the forum and please follow the rules there.

Any idea what was really the problem with the battery? Seems like there was a drain that took the cells below the LVC, which should never happen. Indicates a possible BMS issue. There are lots of these bikes out there and this is the first report of a battery problem that I have read.

 

[Gloert16]

Mine had 73% charge, it's down to 40 something now with quite a bit of use.

This feedback from other buyers why my interactions seem sketchy. I receive a battery that is so dead that the SOC display won't turn on and Luna's response is that they are all shipped in a low SOC. So low that the BMS had tripped and the battery terminals were zero volts? Why yes sir, they are all shipped with a low SOC, and you are also wrong that the BMS had tripped. So low that it took amp hours just to bring it up to LVC? Why yes sir, totally normal, nothing to worry about, and don't forget that you are also wrong.

They told me anything that would cover their ass on shipping out a dead as a doornail bike. The longer I mull this over, the more their gaslighting and sidestepping pisses me off!


I'm waiting patiently for a response about my defective fork. I made sure to ask directly if they were going to fix it, because they have not volunteered any reassurance of customer support in any of our previous interactions.



Since my bike hit limp mode when the SOC was 40% on the battery indicator, can anybody else tell me when theirs goes into 25mph mode?

Yeah JRH - you're reviews (& Hyena's) convinced me to buy as well (thanks for posting those btw!). My battery was at 63% upon arrival, air switch turned off (just as another datapoint for you). I have to say most of my frustration was that I was shipped a fork that was different than I expected and there was no proactive communication about it by Luna. I wasn't impressed with the tact taken in responding to my complaint, but I'm not overall that upset with Luna and Gary was very quick to respond to his credit. I'm still not convinced with their explanation - Hyena's take on the FA fork vs. Luna saying its a modified DH bike fork still give me pause and don't jive (Hyena has no reason to make this up, while Luna potentially does if it means they avoid product refund/replacement claims). I love this bike now that I've gotten it out on some rides! At any rate, I plan to ride the hell out of the RST fork and if it fails, upgrade it myself to something I spec out.

 

[johnrobholmes]

The customer service issues really should be in the Vendor Relations Corner section of the forum and please follow the rules there.

Any idea what was really the problem with the battery? Seems like there was a drain that took the cells below the LVC, which should never happen. Indicates a possible BMS issue. There are lots of these bikes out there and this is the first report of a battery problem that I have read.

I'll take up the customer service in the relations forum when the fork issue is resolved or ignored.

I'm glad that battery problems are only me, because I bought this bike just for the battery. And wouldn't you know it, I get the only mistreated one on earth...

It seems to be holding a static charge during storage, so that doesn't point to BMS itself being faulty. The instruction manual (direct from Sur Ron) states that leaving the bike stored with the air switch on will result in a constant drain and battery damage. Since I received the bike with the air switch on, it was either shipped from the factory this way or done by Luna. Since my motor and controller are evidently the pre production ones, it supports the notion that it could have sat around long enough to drain the pack. Either way, this sort of battery treatment voids the warranty, so it makes me rather uncomfortable. If I do it, game over on battery warranty. If the bike is shipped this way, no big deal?? It wouldn't take a charge at all until I hit the red button on the charger which resets the BMS (according to the instructions), and when I relayed this (over and over and over), the exact response I got was...

I can tell you the bms in that battery is very good...and it would not even allow you to charge if you had hit lvc. there is no way. so you did not recieve a dead battery.

So I guess I didn't receive a dead battery after all! I'm just a bumbling idiot that can't properly work a charger, or any other part of the bike! :lol:

 

[fechter]

I guess it would be nice to know if the bms can't stop the discharge if the switch is left on too long. Most of the cheap bms units I have on my packs would stop discharge as soon as the first cell hits LVC. The bms cell circuits would still have a tiny drain, but only a few microamps.

If the cells were discharged below about 2v and you put full charge current on them, they could be permanently damaged.

I also wonder at what point the pack is drained in preparation for shipping? It's possible somebody screwed up on that step and overdid the discharge.

 

[johnrobholmes]

I didn't crack the pack open to check the cells before starting the charge, as I didn't consider the pack would be so dead on a brand new bike. At first I figured it was something I was doing wrong and didn't have the instructions to clue me in until weeks after. Only then did I fully understand what happened. It took about 20 minutes before the pack turned back on and put 48v to the output, so it was about 3 amp hours below the lvc. Is there 10% capacity between 2v and 3v? That is more than I want to guess at.

At this point it's my responsibility to hook up a CA and drain the bike down until LVC or limp mode, and the owner wants me to take the pack apart and look for the bum string. Either way I'm out time and money to investigate an issue that should not be mine to bear, and then they could easily turn around and refuse a warranty because I took it apart. Fantastic position to be in.

 

[fechter]

I guess things like this will happen occasionally. The real sucky part of it is there is no easy way ship the pack back legally. If you could, it would be a simple matter of replacing it and I'm sure they would want to know why it failed. I'd like to know why it failed too.

A capacity test with a CA or something like that is about as objective as you can get. Hard to argue with accurate numbers.

A warranty replacement seems reasonable if the pack is significantly below the spec.

 

[mr.electric]

Basically John Holmes sounds like a bumbling idiot who has been running an ebike business for years and somehow does not have an amp hour gauge or even a multi meter to give us real numbers. But he got instant fame by doing a sur ron review on his you tube channel with no real data. The ebike business has been filled with people for years exaggerating numbers and the Sur Ron comes in for real with a 2000 watt hour pack which is equal to about 4x any typical ebike pack. Sur ron has real performance and at an affordable price. Do you guys really wish that Luna specs a $2000 fox fork with it and doubles the price of the bike? Who really cares what cheap fork the bike comes with? The dnm that hyena mentions ..dnm stand for do not move and luna has had that exact 8 inch fork on their website for years. Sur ron has real performance at an affordable price something we have been waiting for in a production ebike. What is sad is most of the people in this thread are dealers and they should be clear about that. Jay Hyena probably did not have a choice when he got his bikes with Fast Ace forks. He should also be clear he is not selling the latest version of Sur Ron bikes which no one is arguing Luna has the latest and greatest Sur Ron has to offer. A lot of sour grapes dealers in this thread.