SWB Vision R-40(E) Recumbent with DD Hub Mid-Drive

[Warren]

LI-ghtcycle,

"The closest I see for the simulator is 200 kg (440 lbs) so in the ball-park."

Notice that in any of the boxes, except for motor, you can scroll to the bottom and select "custom." You can get exactly what you want for weight, etc.

"If I can figure a way to see what the "simulated" gearing would be with both my initial reduction, and the range of the NuVinci, (total of 3.5 to 1)"

OK. A MXUS 4503, 450 pounds, 26" wheel, semi-recumbent, 16s, 20 Ah Ping pack (close enough for low load calculation), 60 amp controller, 1% grade (I find that 1% gives a good match to real world "flat" conditions) does 37.3 mph. I doubt you will want to go any faster on your rig. With a 350% total gear range, if you gear the motor 1.75:1 to the NuVinci, say 16T motor, 28T gearbox, then highest speed is ~37 mph(26" wheel), and lowest is ~7 mph (7.4" wheel). Up a 10% grade that 7.4" gear gets very good efficiency (87.4%), but only ~6 mph. Highest gear (26") get you up at 13.8 mph and 67.7% efficiency. If you play around with your highest gear you find that you can get to 14.4 mph with a 32" wheel, but going bigger an inch at a time gets no more speed, until you actually start to loss speed at some point. If you look at battery volts, and motor efficiency, you will see that the battery has started to sag, and amps are going up as volts are going down, and heat is going up. Going to a custom pack setting, you find that adding Ah or voltage, or better chemistry (lower ohms) to the battery greatly improves performance.

For instance, going to 54.4 volt nominal, .029 ohm, 53 Ah usable, like my Leaf pack, gets your rig up there at 20 mph, 85.9% efficiency, 12.6" gear. And your lowest gear, 7.4" gets you up a 20% grade at the same efficiency, and 11.6 mph. And your highest gear, 26", gets you ~41 mph on the flat.

 

[LI-ghtcycle]

Thanks for the info Warren!

I plan on using as high of a C rate LiFeP04 Prismatic pouch cell battery as I can afford (I have some of the 20 ah A123 cells that were discontinued, hopefully there is another brand with similar performance available), or Similar high (3 - 5C) Li-Ion (there seem to be really good choices in the 18650 packs these days!) to get good life and over-all performance.

I was originally thinking of using around 20s, but more and more I am leaning towards something like 24s 20 - 30 AH LiFeP04 pouch cells rated at 74V (like you see for the Enduro Ebike http://www.enduroebike.com/sale-612...le-battery-pack-72v-20ah-lifepo4-battery.html not sure on this particular battery, but something along these lines, high quality but best bang for the buck).

I also like the 74V option since it will allow for lower amps, around 40 from the controller, and should have about the same range as the larger lower voltage pack I was previously considering.

I still have Turnigy Nano Tech 25 - 50 c Lipo batteries, but they are just not plug & play enough for my liking, I will continue to use them for some tests on our "hot rod" cruiser, but for every day use, LiFeP04 is still my preferred chemistry.

 

[LI-ghtcycle]

Great minds think alike!

I came to exactly the same gearing calculation for the primary, however, I believe the MXUS 4504 is slightly more efficient (and it the model I have my eye on for sale atm as a coincidence!) and I am all about maximum range, so that means efficiency, and though that means my maximum speed with my current set-up, 48V 20AH A123 Prismatic pack, will be only 14 MPH in the greatest test (going up the 10% grade with maximum payload of 100lbs, 50lbs in the panier bags, 50lbs in the trailer ideally) of what I have available until I am able to afford my preferred 74V battery, the gearing is still my preference for when I will be able to go faster and more efficiently, even climbing hills under load!

I have calculated my ideal set up, 74V 20AH, 40 Amp Controller, Simulated 16" wheel (I calculated nearly the same at 1.70 : 1 reduction from the motor to rear hub), Semi-Recumbent (might be closer to a MTB with my "aero" paniers, tail box and trailer or worse? :lol: ) 450 Gross weight, 10% grade giving me an efficiency of 85% even in this scenario and a speed of 23 mph! & 13 miles range! (considering I would never see this much grade for more than a mile or 2, it should be enough even after returning from a 20 mile trip and then up the hill to home! 8) )

On the "flat", 2% grade, I have a solid 30 MPH, and 37 mile range 89% efficiency!

Just for fun I tried every other motor listed with the simulator, and none could top the efficiency of the MXUS 4504 (wonder if this is indicating the V1 or V2?)

Needless to say, I haven't even got to a couple months from now when I will possibly be able to afford the new motor, and I ALREADY have a giant grin!

 

[Warren]

Yeah. Big DD hub motors are pretty efficient. An Astro would do better. But then you have to put up with the whine. I wish Justin would put them on the simulator.

 

[LI-ghtcycle]

Yeah, I appreciate high rpm motors, but I really prefer the near silent DD.

Even if the MXUS 3000 was more motor than I needed, the larger bearings and factory installed thermometer (thermistor?) and I will have to up-grade to a Cycle Analyst V3 or for now just have a BBQ thermometer next to it, I really need to build some form of "dash board" to clean up all the junk I have attached my handlebars, it's practical but too cluttered looking now.

 

[LI-ghtcycle]

Found some of those HD Tubing Clamps on Amazon, free shipping (using the 30 day free Amazon Prime, free 2-day shipping! 8) )

And these are BLACK plastic, so much more universal color than green!

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004Y17W6Q?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00

Just got 2x 1" (will closely match the 32 mm seat tube on the Bronco with a small amount of shimming) and 2x 1 - 1/2" (will be just slightly smaller than my Vision R-40's main tube, so I will sand it down till it fits just right).

I will also hopefully be getting some sheet aluminum on the cheap from a local scrap metal supplier.

Things are getting there!

 

[LI-ghtcycle]

DOH! These clamps on Amazon are TUBE dimensions, not PIPE, so they are easy to size, just have to order the right ones.

The 1" ones however will fit a 25mm seat tube, so might be useful in a future build.

I have ordered 2" ones, anxious to see how they fit the R-40's main tube, should be really close, even perfect since it's just a hair under 2" at 50mm.

 

[LI-ghtcycle]

Ok! Christmas in July! Got my MXUS 3000w from Kynaye Motors!!

Here it is mounted with bungees just to get an idea where I will be mounting it:







I'll get some better pics when I start finalizing my design, as I have experienced the Hubzilla 5000w on our shop bike, and not had any issues with it wanting to wheelie, I think this should be fine too. I think the combination of the N171B NuVinchi lower amp settings will keep things tame while still giving me the performance I need climbing the hill!

I have pretty much abandoned the idea of a E-Bike delivery, and settled for mobile E-Bike repair/service, as I think I will better be able to fill that need and help to build interest in E-Bikes in general.

The E-Zilla shop bike has got a lot of positive attention, next I plan to do a full suspension MTB with a Bafang BBS02 or 750 to be something more for the average rider, and I want to also pursue more "mobility" type E-Bikes for those with special requirements, I met a lady recently who has very severe chronic fatigue who just started having to use a wheel chair, but when she has a good day, she can ride a bicycle!

I would love to build something that will get others who are otherwise unable to, out and about on a practical and affordable E-Bike that allows them the freedom to ride on their own instead of having to depend solely on public transit or friends/family giving them rides.

 

[LI-ghtcycle]

Well after going a bit far to get supplies at Harbor Freight (my 25 mile trip ended up 28 mile on the "scenic route" up another monster hill) yesterday, I got to see the new bike path they built along the new Lightrail (MAX) train run to Milwaukie from Portland!



This is nearly as steep and long as the hill a few miles from home, but they did such a good job of making it a steady grade that it really wasn't too bad.

They put in some very nice sculptures of a bear and a beaver to bookend this bench:





This was a good "shake down" ride to test how things were sorted in the build, I did most of the work minus the steep parts where the motor probably did 60-70%, but it wasn't bad, and the bike is surprisingly easy to pedal even with no throttle added.

Today, I made another trip, to SMI metals (just a few miles from me) to get more aluminum and black plastic blocks for this build, and I thought it would be fun to show you my " Monday morning commute".

After taking the "Parkway Detour" here I am going through the tunnel where I ran into traffic (young mother biking with her kids )







I ran into some traffic of the four legged kind at the bridge (would have taken a picture but the poor lady was just trying to keep her dog from "loving the bike to death" as they walked by)



Riding on the "Express Way" about 1/2 mile from home. 8)



Finally arriving home, I unpacked my plunder!







This time around, the axle will be fully encased in a moving "carriage" of 1/2" (5/8" total) thick aluminum that travels vertically inside of a 2 x 4" of aluminum rectangular tube, making for simple chain adjustment of the mid drive.

More details soon!

 

[LI-ghtcycle]

Well, no concrete progress, got a few more important builds (customer's and mobility trike project are coming first) but I did do some drawing, I believe I will be able to eliminate some of the complexity this time around and so far I have this drawing:



The red circle is the main tube of the Vision R40, with 2 x 4" rectangular tube as the left and right hub mount flanges with black poly acting as spacers.

This motor should never see peaks above 1500w so I believe the robust mount on E-Zilla would be overkill, and this mount will be lighter and possibly more rigid, I will post more details in a week or so as I am currently focused on a customer's E-Bike & an E-Trike build.

I will get to my beloved hammock on wheels asap, but for now it's on the back burner.