Testing 10 gauge Turnigy wire at 100A

[Doctorbass]

Curious on how much current these great popular silicon skin ultra high strands wire can take?

I know well these great turnigy wires that i really like because of their amazing gigh current capability but i was wondering why
on the Adaptto Max E controller the battery connections was using only 10 gauge?.. This controller is made to take seriously 150A and 400A phase current.

IS it worth of replacing it for like 8 or 6 gauge?

To decide that i needed to make some test before to be able to answer that question.

As well.. taking high current and being the best choice are two different things beause we have to consider the power loss too... but if your ebike is 10kW and the wire take let say 10W of heat.. that is 0.1% power loss in the wire at full current... not bad at all... .. well for the power/energy loss at least...

Here is a test at 100A " continuous"

[youtube]Y_z9eaq6Daw[/youtube]

Enjoy

 

[kfong]

Great info. My only issue with that wire is the poor abrasion resistance. I've had the sheathing rub away creating a short, so be careful about how you secure the wires. Did you ever start a thread on that new CF bike of yours Doc?

 

[Doctorbass]

Great info. My only issue with that wire is the poor abrasion resistance. I've had the sheathing rub away creating a short, so be careful about how you secure the wires. Did you ever start a thread on that new CF bike of yours Doc?

Yes you are totally right, the silicon wire have poor abrasion resistance and is fragile when pinched or around sharp edges like non sanded aluminum or steel frame part.

Yes i have started a thread about that great NYX CF frame but not posted any pics yet of my project. That will be in teh next days as well!

On sunday i hope i'll have time to finish my Zero battery modification to put inside and also to do some test on the dyno with teh 5302 on a 20" and my watercooled 5403 on a 24" with my actual Alpha version of the Adaptto Max-E. I'm waiting to receive the Lastest version of the Max-E hardware.

Doc

 

[kfong]

Looking foward to it Doc, That CF caught my attention the first time you posted it. I want all the details

 

[Alan B]

Nice test, useful results.

 

[23skidoo]

Thanks Dr. Bass; I was just wondering about this as I change from 45a to 75a Anderson's power pole connectors with this wire. I'm finding that the 45amp connectors are getting hot at 60 amps peak current. They only get too hot where I have six 45a connectors ganged together in one plug, and when two people are on my scooter.

 

[fechter]

I'm impressed. Try 12ga.

 

[Ypedal]

nice..

Silicone shields heat very well, i'm curious to know what the conductor temps were . ..

 

[dbaker]

Nice test, Doc

+1 on the CF build

 

[sn0wchyld]

I'm impressed. Try 12ga.

and 24g... just for the

 

[Doctorbass]

Thanks Dr. Bass; I was just wondering about this as I change from 45a to 75a Anderson's power pole connectors with this wire. I'm finding that the 45amp connectors are getting hot at 60 amps peak current. They only get too hot where I have six 45a connectors ganged together in one plug, and when two people are on my scooter.

That is an excellent question. in fact the temp of the connector depend ALOT on the wire gauge they are crimped/soldered to. The contact resistance of the connector is generally the key components that create heat. The better the crimp/solder and wire size are the lower the heat is produced.

Sometime people thing it's the wire that generate heat but it is the connector contact few inch away that is producing the major part of that heat and coper just conduct that heat.

I have long experience with the Anderson connectors and from what i learned over the years, s that the connector sometime are not well crimped or are bent on one side witch does not alloow full width of the connector blade to enter in contact with the other.. and sometime it is only the edge! on the side of it.

If people would carefully read the datasheet of these great connectors they would also discover that the connector contact blade MUST be able to move a bit in the housing.. this is what make it to match the position of the other connector. In fact Both of these blade shall have some play in rotation and shall be able to move up and down too to match the contact position.

Also it is possible to use 10 gauge wire with the PP30 contact. In fact i dont like the 45A contact they have less surface and are more complicated to crimp for people that dont have the specialized tool. the PP30 can be crimped with large variety of crimper.

I'm using the Pp30 and 10 gauge since many years and i still use these for the phase connections between my controller rand motor. They work great at up to 15kW burst and 8kW continuous.

Doc

 

[Doctorbass]

I'm impressed. Try 12ga.

I will.. Just for you :wink:

Doc

 

[Doctorbass]

I'm impressed. Try 12ga.

and 24g... just for the

I will... too!

 

[Obiwan007]

So Doc, what is this thechnique you speak of for crimping 10 awg wire into PP 30 connectors? I would certainly be interested in a description of your method. 8)

 

[23skidoo]

Dr. Bass wrote

If people would carefully read the datasheet of these great connectors they would also discover that the connector contact blade MUST be able to move a bit in the housing.. this is what make it to match the position of the other connector. In fact Both of these blade shall have some play in rotation and shall be able to move up and down too to match the contact position.

I didn't read the data sheets. I have a few inches of stiff house wire going into the connectors. The connectors must not seat well and get hot first. Several feet of turnigy 10 ga are cool.

The flexibility of the turnigy wire means that it's more robust long term despite lack of toughness.

I've got a method for getting the wire into the 45amp Anderson's, but you really don't want to know

 

[amberwolf]

If people would carefully read the datasheet of these great connectors they would also discover that the connector contact blade MUST be able to move a bit in the housing.. this is what make it to match the position of the other connector. In fact Both of these blade shall have some play in rotation and shall be able to move up and down too to match the contact position.

Yes, and another problem is that people either heatshrink or otherwise secure or tie down the wires all together near the housings, which pulls the wires in one direction and forces the contacts in another, which can cause them to nto sit flat against each other, and give higher resistance and generate heat.

Stiff wire, wire or insulation so thick it touches the housings, etc., will also contribute to the problem. :/

 

[Alan B]

If you review the Anderson datasheet for PowerPole 15/30/45 connectors, they heat up considerably when grouped together and those current ratings are not conservative. The PowerPole 75 pins are exactly the same as the SB50 pins, and the 50 amp rating is conservative whereas the 75 amp rating is much less so.

 

[Doctorbass]

If you review the Anderson datasheet for PowerPole 15/30/45 connectors, they heat up considerably when grouped together and those current ratings are not conservative. The PowerPole 75 pins are exactly the same as the SB50 pins, and the 50 amp rating is conservative whereas the 75 amp rating is much less so.

Exactly. i tested the SB50 with 100A continuous with 4 gauge wire and they work perfect and dont heat up too much in a normal ambiant temp.

I'm using the SB50 to 90A continuous with my zero charging setup and they are wired with 6 gauge. I've been charging hundred of time during 1 to 1.5h without any problem even with ambiant outside temp of 95F.

Doc

 

[Doctorbass]

I'm impressed. Try 12ga.

Hey Fechter and sn0wchyld I've tested that for you

10AWG: 1
12AWG: 1
24AWG: 0... it loose!! as well!!


Enjoy!

[youtube]0DhzWPoSYoQ[/youtube]


Doc

 

[Alan B]

The video link is bad, the wrong thing was pasted in there. Thanks for doing this.

 

[Doctorbass]

The video link is bad, the wrong thing was pasted in there. Thanks for doing this.

Problem solved! :wink:

 

[Alan B]

Thanks. Need to do those tests outdoors, though it is so cold there now that would affect the results and not be fun.

I wonder if they really meant 24 gauge, or if they meant 14 gauge. Even that is really pushing things at 100 amps. In any case having these results it is easy to rescale to other wire size.

On my present pack I'm using a pair of #12's (equivalent to #9) for 80 amps, on my upgrade I'm going to use #8 for 80 amps, it should not get too warm then.

 

[scfoster]

Dr Bass and others, thanks for all the useful info.

I was posting a question on my build thread specifically about the Anderson Power Pole connectors. Why does em3ev (Paul) build the battery connection with six PP connectors, rather than 4 or two larger ones? The battery is a 50V, 22Ah (29E) pack that is paired to a BBS02 mid-drive.

With BBS02 running at 20amps (so let's say 30-40 for a safety margin), what would you recommend for a connection?

Planning on dipping a toe in the water to build a battery pack from scratch. All I currently know is you need to keep the smoke in the wires.

 

[Alan B]

Three pins for each polarity is very conservative, and the PP30 is very small, and lower in cost than the PP75's. Seems like a good solution, and good for 100A without strain.

 

[scfoster]

Three pins for each polarity is very conservative, and the PP30 is very small, and lower in cost than the PP75's. Seems like a good solution, and good for 100A without strain.

I was thinking of using 2 for each polarity; would have a much smaller footprint.

See any issues with that approach for a 40A situation? I'd like to get rid of the bullet connector off the BBS02 and "standardize" on PP connections, so I can make up cables to exact lengths.

Next would be all the control cables to remove the rat's nest under the handlebars.