Jozzer
100 kW
Besides, its hardly surprising they are jumping back into the market after the jib they took in "Who Killed THe Electric Car" :lol:
The care and feeding of a123-based packs...
- Thread starter GGoodrum
- Start date
Hi all
been reading the thread so went for a look on ebay have I found the right pack?
Dewalt DE9360 Heavy Duty 36 volt Lithium Ion Battery Pack - factory sealed
Power of corded without the cord.
DeWalt Exclusive Nano-Phospate Lithium-Ion Cells provide high power for corded performance deliver 2-3x more run-time vs 18V batteries offer long battery life & durability: 2000 charges. Lightweight Design. 2.4 lbs - same weight as a DeWalt 18V Battery. No memory & no self-discharge for maximum productivity & less downtime.
Specification:
Voltage: 36 V Nano-Phospate Lithium-Ion
Weight 1.1 kg
Looks right but want to check with you guys before I pull out my walet
been reading the thread so went for a look on ebay have I found the right pack?
Dewalt DE9360 Heavy Duty 36 volt Lithium Ion Battery Pack - factory sealed
Power of corded without the cord.
DeWalt Exclusive Nano-Phospate Lithium-Ion Cells provide high power for corded performance deliver 2-3x more run-time vs 18V batteries offer long battery life & durability: 2000 charges. Lightweight Design. 2.4 lbs - same weight as a DeWalt 18V Battery. No memory & no self-discharge for maximum productivity & less downtime.
Specification:
Voltage: 36 V Nano-Phospate Lithium-Ion
Weight 1.1 kg
Looks right but want to check with you guys before I pull out my walet
BiGH
100 kW
hi geoff, thats the one, or should i say 4 or 6 or 8 lol
Malcolm
10 kW
Yes, that's the one Geoff. I bought the same pack off ebay a couple of weeks ago.
Malcolm
10 kW
I only bought a single pack, at the same price as you've found. I wanted to get a closer look at one as I was thinking of making up a lightweight 12s3p pack. I might still do that sometime, but I've just ordered a dozen LifeBatt cells from Ian, so other plans are on hold for the moment.
Jozzer
100 kW
geoff57 said:
Hi Malcolm
how many did you get and what price, lowest I've found is £67.50 plus £7.99 p+p.
quote]
The packs Leatherman sells on ebay.co.uk are new ones, many of the others sell packs that have perhaps been used. (I bought 10 packs, 4 from leatherman were all new and boxed and 100% good, others from various sources were all preopened, and had a cell or two that wasn't up to scratch..
Jozzer
100 kW
Well tell him I recommended you and maybe I'll get a discount next time I order :lol:
GGoodrum
1 MW
I finally got the new boards that integrate the LVC function with the cross-coupling balancer connections required to use the built-in balancer plugs in the DeWalt plastic end caps. With these, I can populate one with the LVC parts, and use the second one just for the balancer connections, and end up with a 10s4p, 33V/9.2Ah pack. Here's what it looks like:
If you start out with fully charged and balanced packs, it doesn't take long to put one of these together. These four were supposedly full, as they all were last charged with DeWalt chargers, but they were far from balanced. I don't think the DeWalt charger/BMS combo does that great a job, even if you leave them on the charger for awhile after the three lights come on. I ended up with cells that varied from 3.39V to 3.72V, in all four packs. I used a TP-210V RC 10-cell balancer, to even them all up and then fully charged each pack again.
Once they were all at about the same level, I hot glued a pair of packs, front to back, soldered up the main power leads and plugged in the boards. I then stuck the completed pairs together, using double-sided tape and then connected the second pair to the first, using the balancer plugs. The main power leads get "Y"-ed together, in the main harness, so the main current is evenly drawn from each of the four packs. The balancer leads simply keep each of the four cells in each block at the same voltage level.
Adding some heavy duty rubberized shrink wrap cleans it all up, and adds an additional level of protection. I've had these fall off a bench onto a conrete floor and everything was fine.
-- Gary
If you start out with fully charged and balanced packs, it doesn't take long to put one of these together. These four were supposedly full, as they all were last charged with DeWalt chargers, but they were far from balanced. I don't think the DeWalt charger/BMS combo does that great a job, even if you leave them on the charger for awhile after the three lights come on. I ended up with cells that varied from 3.39V to 3.72V, in all four packs. I used a TP-210V RC 10-cell balancer, to even them all up and then fully charged each pack again.
Once they were all at about the same level, I hot glued a pair of packs, front to back, soldered up the main power leads and plugged in the boards. I then stuck the completed pairs together, using double-sided tape and then connected the second pair to the first, using the balancer plugs. The main power leads get "Y"-ed together, in the main harness, so the main current is evenly drawn from each of the four packs. The balancer leads simply keep each of the four cells in each block at the same voltage level.
Adding some heavy duty rubberized shrink wrap cleans it all up, and adds an additional level of protection. I've had these fall off a bench onto a conrete floor and everything was fine.
-- Gary
EMF
100 kW
Very nice work. May I ask, what are the dimensions of the pack and also the weight?
GGoodrum
1 MW
EMF said:
It is about 2-3/4" (70mm) high, 6-1/4" (155mm) wide and just under 11" (275mm) long, and weighs 7 lbs 12.5 oz (3.53 kg).
-- Gary
EMF
100 kW
Interesting. If you offer these boards on your website, I would take 2 of each type for a 72 volt setup I am using, once they are generally available. ( I think I read somewhere here, that this was a possibility) If it possible to get them earlier, I would really like to purchase them directly somehow. If this is not an inconvenience to you.
The weather is changing here and soon I wont be able to ride, so I could work on making the packs up.
Regards,
Dan
The weather is changing here and soon I wont be able to ride, so I could work on making the packs up.
Regards,
Dan
GGoodrum
1 MW
EMF said:
I will be offering the LVC boards soon, but I need to finish testing them first, which I hope to complete in the next day, or so. I will also offer the LVC/balancing harness boards as part of 10s2p and 10s4p a123 pack construction kits. I may also start offering to build complete packs, if the DeWalt packs are sent to me first.
-- Gary
EMF
100 kW
Sweet! These batteries are awesome. Thank you for all your hard work developing this solution for reducing weight/size of packs and better charging! 8) Please send up an alert when these are available, as I would love to add two more batteries to my pack. With your system, this is now possible, with the 10s4p a123 pack construction kit and I can even use my same rear bag. 
GGoodrum
1 MW
Here's my latest attempt at a low-cost/simple option for charging and balancing 10s a123 packs:
It uses 10 individual cell, 2A CC/CV chargers that have a cutoff voltage around 3.7V-3.8V. I wired them into two 6-pin connectors that match up with the balancer plugs on my 10s4p packs, like the one shown here:
If I'm in a hurry, I can charge the packs to about 80%, using a bigger "bulk" charger, and then use this setup to top-off and balance the cell blocks. Otherwise, it takes about 4 hours to completely charge/balance an empty 10s4p pack.
Each charger has isolated outputs, so it is okay to connect them in this fashion. Each also has an LED that shines red while it is in the initial CC mode, yellow for the CV mode and green when the charge is complete. You just wait until all 10 are green and then the pack is completely charged and perfectly balanced.
Each charger cost about $10, and the two power strips were $3 for the pair (from Lowes...). Add about $3 for the balancer plugs, and the total is under $110. That's about what a 10-cell TP-210V balancer costs, all by itself.
-- Gary
It uses 10 individual cell, 2A CC/CV chargers that have a cutoff voltage around 3.7V-3.8V. I wired them into two 6-pin connectors that match up with the balancer plugs on my 10s4p packs, like the one shown here:
If I'm in a hurry, I can charge the packs to about 80%, using a bigger "bulk" charger, and then use this setup to top-off and balance the cell blocks. Otherwise, it takes about 4 hours to completely charge/balance an empty 10s4p pack.
Each charger has isolated outputs, so it is okay to connect them in this fashion. Each also has an LED that shines red while it is in the initial CC mode, yellow for the CV mode and green when the charge is complete. You just wait until all 10 are green and then the pack is completely charged and perfectly balanced.
Each charger cost about $10, and the two power strips were $3 for the pair (from Lowes...). Add about $3 for the balancer plugs, and the total is under $110. That's about what a 10-cell TP-210V balancer costs, all by itself.
-- Gary
EMF
100 kW
Good find on the 2 ampp chargers! What kind of bulk charger are you referring to?
TylerDurden
100 GW
Good show, Gary! Very tidy.
GGoodrum
1 MW
EMF said:
Well, what I use is a couple of TP-1010C 10-cell RC chargers, but I'm looking for a good 36V SLA charger that can be tweaked to 33V (with a 37V CC/CV cutoff...).
Actually, somebody here found these little chargers, but I don't remember who. I just ordered up 10 of them as soon as I saw the link.
-- Gary
EMF
100 kW
Dumb question, I wonder if the Dewalt DC9000 could be pressed into service somehow, while still using your BMS for better balancing? At least it has the right output voltage and I read where that guy in Seattle was charging 5 packs in parallel with one. Can't beat the price of ~40 dollars.GGoodrum said:
I guess you could run 2 sets of 4 packs in parallel for charging, then series the parallel packs together for run mode. If a guy could get this working, you could charge 8 dewalts in about 4 hours with two of these chargers.
BiGH
100 kW
maybe in the USA ...
in australia the charger is $239AUD! its stupid.
its cheaper to buy a us charger and voltage converter.
in australia the charger is $239AUD! its stupid.
its cheaper to buy a us charger and voltage converter.
GGoodrum
1 MW
I'm not a big fan of the DeWalt chargers. I have four of them that I used to charge 8 packs. I recently re-did these into two 10s4p packs, as described earlier in this thread. Before I took the 8 packs apart, I put all on on the DeWalt chargers, and left them on for half-an-hour after the 3 lights first came on, just to make sure they were well-balanced. When I got the packs apart, and I was able to check the voltage of each cell, I was quite surprised at how out-of-balance they were. Almost every pack had cells that ranged from about 3.40 to 3.70V. In one pack, one cell was at 3.36V and another at 3.78V. They were so out-of-whack that I thought maybe some of the cells were stressed, and had lost capacity. They weren't, though, as I was able to balance the pack using a TP-210V balancer and then charge these back up using a TP-1010C charger and the cells are all very close now.
Maybe I just have four bad chargers, but I think that's highly unlikely. Anyway, I'm done with the DeWalts.
-- Gary
Maybe I just have four bad chargers, but I think that's highly unlikely. Anyway, I'm done with the DeWalts.
-- Gary
EMF
100 kW
That certainly is a wide variance! I doubt you could have 4 bad chargers as well. Perhaps these voltages are within Dewalt quality control specs. After all, they're not used in combination for their tools, like we use them in the bikes. Plus, the BMS will shut the pack down in time with their tools. A drill or whatever, will run quite some time before this happens and the user will just slap in another battery or wait an hour.
Whereas we are all trying to maximize range with the bikes and the RC groups are doing the same for duration with their electric planes and helis. I suppose I need to start thinking of investing in a decent charger...
BTW, I used to fly RC for many years. My last plane was a Pirate Models Extra 260 1/3 scale. I even used to make my own smoke fluid with corvis oil and lots of paraffin. :wink:
Well. I shoulda said this is the price on eBay, they're twice as much at Amazon. But damn, that is crazy high down there.
Whereas we are all trying to maximize range with the bikes and the RC groups are doing the same for duration with their electric planes and helis. I suppose I need to start thinking of investing in a decent charger...
BTW, I used to fly RC for many years. My last plane was a Pirate Models Extra 260 1/3 scale. I even used to make my own smoke fluid with corvis oil and lots of paraffin. :wink:
BiGH said:
Well. I shoulda said this is the price on eBay, they're twice as much at Amazon. But damn, that is crazy high down there.
BiGH
100 kW
its F**Ked.
the batteries EACH are $379aud list price at the tool shop i noticed stock them.
the batteries EACH are $379aud list price at the tool shop i noticed stock them.
GGoodrum
1 MW
Yeah, the list prices here are pretty steep as well. I can usually find them for $100 a pack, shipped within the US. I've helped people down there get packs in the past, by having them shipped to me, here in California, and then I shipped them down there vis USPS' Express Mail, which is far less expensive than UPS, DHL or FedEx. Most packages take about 4 days, door-to-door. I'd be happy to do the same for someone here. Just PM me.
-- Gary
-- Gary
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