monster
100 kW
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- Jun 17, 2007
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the life cycle cost of cycling and electric biking
- Thread starter monster
- Start date
Drunkskunk
100 GW
Interesting. I've seen that number, 1:9.5 for energy consumption in food sources relating to raw food crops, and not including the preperation or cooking of it, or including meats or spices and other condaments. The number i've seen most often for getting food from seed or egg to your table, cooked and ready to consume is 1:40.
That doesn't invalidate his findings at all. Infact, it reconfirms his findings, and even with a conservitive estimate of 1:1 it shows Ebikes are the way to go. Unless we can find another way to harnes the sun's energy, Electricity is the most efficent way to harness power.
That doesn't invalidate his findings at all. Infact, it reconfirms his findings, and even with a conservitive estimate of 1:1 it shows Ebikes are the way to go. Unless we can find another way to harnes the sun's energy, Electricity is the most efficent way to harness power.
Hmm, nice find.
The assumption that ebikes and normal bikes take even amounts of energy to move around can be disproven by riding an ebike without using the motor, there's an appreciable difference.
The paper assumes 5-15wh/km, but most people on this forum seem to use several fold more energy then they could possibly produce using muscles.
It also seems more sources of energy usage are taken into account for food then batteries, says it's because this info is hard to find, but then it would make more sense not to include things that can't be accounted for both.
The extra bits that are required to make an ebike are not taken into account under the assumption they'll last forever, but it seems more reasonable to expect the majority of these bits will be permanently out of service well within a decade.
The assumption that ebikes and normal bikes take even amounts of energy to move around can be disproven by riding an ebike without using the motor, there's an appreciable difference.
The paper assumes 5-15wh/km, but most people on this forum seem to use several fold more energy then they could possibly produce using muscles.
It also seems more sources of energy usage are taken into account for food then batteries, says it's because this info is hard to find, but then it would make more sense not to include things that can't be accounted for both.
The extra bits that are required to make an ebike are not taken into account under the assumption they'll last forever, but it seems more reasonable to expect the majority of these bits will be permanently out of service well within a decade.
TylerDurden
100 GW
Maybe not, excepting the batteries. Motors and contactors can last significantly longer than a decade... I expect controllers to last at least that long with reasonable care, or at least reasonable sizing for the applications.Mathurin said:
8)
Dunno man,
If the current trend in geared hubmotors continues, at some point in the not so distant future something equivalent to a 4X clyte or somesuch will show up. Except, it's gonna weigh a fraction of the 4X so it won't hurt the bike's agility anywhere near as much, a major advantage for everyone who actually enjoys riding bicycles. It'll be smaller and will likely actually fit bicycles and blend in as a bicycle component, by opposition to the typical gaudy chunk with a crude finish that matches nothing else on a bike compounded with DIY torque arms that stick out like an afterthought... Ugh. Cherry on the sundae is it's going to be more efficient, likely matched with a smaller controller that's also more efficient. I expect people are going to want to move away from current designs even if they still work, I know I would. Maybe ROI weenies wouldn't.
History has a way of repeating, people ditched friction drives that still worked fine in favour of things like hubmotors. More efficient, faster, less clumsy, less ugly. They're worth next to nothing on ebay, and I bet a lot of them still work but are rotting somewhere in a garage or barn, if not in a dump.
If the current trend in geared hubmotors continues, at some point in the not so distant future something equivalent to a 4X clyte or somesuch will show up. Except, it's gonna weigh a fraction of the 4X so it won't hurt the bike's agility anywhere near as much, a major advantage for everyone who actually enjoys riding bicycles. It'll be smaller and will likely actually fit bicycles and blend in as a bicycle component, by opposition to the typical gaudy chunk with a crude finish that matches nothing else on a bike compounded with DIY torque arms that stick out like an afterthought... Ugh. Cherry on the sundae is it's going to be more efficient, likely matched with a smaller controller that's also more efficient. I expect people are going to want to move away from current designs even if they still work, I know I would. Maybe ROI weenies wouldn't.
History has a way of repeating, people ditched friction drives that still worked fine in favour of things like hubmotors. More efficient, faster, less clumsy, less ugly. They're worth next to nothing on ebay, and I bet a lot of them still work but are rotting somewhere in a garage or barn, if not in a dump.
