The push for 70 mph.

[recumpence]

I completely agree with everyone here regarding top speed and practicality. I have 5kw continuous available on my recumbent. It maxes out on the flat at 42 mph using about 1,300 watts. That is PLENTY fast. I am merely a motor pulley away from gearing for 70+mph. I have enough power for it. But, at 40mph, I get that funny feeling the bike is at its limit. Stopping from that speed is an issue too. I have a 203mm rotor and it still glazes easily at that speed. I am moving to twin calipers this winter for more reliable braking next year.

Matt

 

[fifthmass]

Back in my younger and insane days a friend of mine and I would go seeking out the biggest hills we could find and go down them riding a tandem for greater speed. We had a spoke disc on the rear wheel and a bubble fairing strapped to the handlebars. Our brakes were crap . Our best speed was 69 mph down a hill on rte 58 in Vermont between the towns of Lowell and Irasburg. It was 14% grade for 1 mile with a 9% lead in for 1/2 mile. That ride was terrifying but the bike controlled well enough at that speed. We likewise found at least a half dozen other hills in NH and VT where we were able to break 60 mph on the tandem. At 60 the tandem handled like a motorcycle, very stable but noticably slower to respond.

With regards to a standard bike the same guy I did the tandem rides with once drafted a van (arranged with driver) down a long hill on rte 9 just west of Keene, NH on a traditional road bike. He got up to (no s**t) 81 mph in the draft then lost track of the van and drifted out into the slipstream. He was barely able to maintain control but hung on and seemed to be doing fine by the time he got down to 50-55 or so. I was in the van and saw the whole thing. I tried the same thing on a short wheelbase Hypercycle recumbent back in the late 80's and found that stability was marginal above 40 mph. The wheel base of the recumbent was only 36 inches.

The idea of a long wheel base being more stable has proven to be true in my experience with high speed biking. Now that I'm older and (hopefully) wiser I would not consider going over 40-45 on any bicycle and not even over thirty unless road and traffic conditions are ideal. Bicycles are not motorcycles and conventional bike brakes (except some discs) are woefully inadequate at ICE vehicle speeds.

Been there, done it, and survived.

Regards, Bill

 

[safe]

Wider tires also help a lot. (deeper)

You need the long wheelbase to slow everything down and get rid of that "twitchy" feeling. But it's the fat (3" wide and 3" deep) racing slicks that I've found really give me the confidence at speeds of 55 mph. (that's as fast as I've been able to go) At 55 mph my first project bike feels solid as a rock with not a hint of instability (it seems to get better at that speed). There are no hills to speak of in the midwest so I have no way of getting up above 55 mph to find out if the handling would suddenly go bad, but I tend to doubt it.

In general I'm just finding that you need to design the bike for what it needs to do. Don't ride a bike designed to go 40 mph above it's natural speed.

This bike needs a fairing to go faster.

The wider tires make me feel more confident that if I need to turn or brake suddenly that the tires will be able to do something. Running at high speeds with thin tires reduces your ability to react. I know that in many cases it's more important to turn and avoid a problem than to stop because often stopping is not possible. (better to ditch the bike to the side than to be forced straight into something)

 

[safe]

I get that funny feeling the bike is at its limit.

If you added just 6" to the wheelbase I can pretty much assure you that you would feel completely comfortable at above 40 mph. The bike might feel fine, but if you aren't wearing full leathers your brain will be saying:

"The bike is handling great, but this is too scary."

...everyone doing this stuff should go on ebay and buy themselves some used leathers like I did. (full road race) I got some for about $100. If you are going to test the limits of speed you ought to take precautions.

No speeds above 40 mph with exposed skin.

 

[AussieJester]

Rims and tires would be my biggest concern ... I thought about going
down the moped rim/tire combo even those are only rated to 62mph though...

http://www.mopedshop.com/Moped-Tires-Tubes-s/72.htm

 

[dogman dan]

My wife thinks I'm crazy for commuting , at 25- 30 mph in the summer in shorts and t shirt. When I broke both collarbones last summer I was doing 15. Too hot for leathers in the summer here though, and peadling. I used to lay down motorcycles and just climb on top till it slowed down, but hook a peg or a handlebar and oh boy! Never had to do it on pavement though.

 

[safe]

Too hot for leathers in the summer here though...

I actually tested that this last summer...

First I tried going out in my leathers into 95 degree high humidity heat and found that for about a half an hour I was okay until suddenly the heat overwhelms you. Next I tried going out without the leathers and while the air whicked away my sweat the heat got right too me. You lose more water faster when you are open to the air and that means you dehydrate faster.

So it's a mixed bag. If you're in the leathers then there is no cooling effect and so the heat builds, but you don't lose as much water. If you are exposed you feel less sweaty, but you get dehydrated faster and if it's hot enough you feel like you are riding through a furnace.

All in all for the summer heat I prefer leathers... it actually is better for shorter (half hour) rides.

In the middle of summer you just need to limit your ride time.

The midwest is very high humidity in the summers and so places like New Mexico with low humidity might work better for open skin. In high humidity you sweat, but it doesn't give as much cooling effect.

Humidity is awful...

 

[swbluto]

Humidity is awful...

Agreed, which forms the basis of my suspicion that "Missouri" is really a historically French way of spelling "Misery".

 

[safe]

Agreed, which forms the basis of my suspicion that "Missouri" is really a historically French way of spelling "Misery".

The civil war started here... Kansas is the polar opposite of Missouri near the border between the two states was where the civil war began. The "Jayhawkers" were a group of "terrorists" that crossed from Kansas into Missouri to rape and pillage and Missouri lead an expedition into Lawrence Kansas and burned the city down. They both were brutal.

The two states are still bitter rivals.

Missouri is the "dirty" side (Confederate past) while Kansas was on the Northern side. Missouri got all the mafia types and the blacks. Kansas City has a long history of crime and corruption dating back a hundred years.

If I had known more about the state before moving here I probably would have chosen Kansas and not Missouri... err.... Misery. :|

But outside of the city things aren't that bad. When the weather is good (like it was last summer) you don't get all that many bad days.

One summer we had something like 40 days above 95 degrees.

Last summer we had 10 days.

So it can vary a lot...

The summers don't crimp my style too much in riding my ebike. But the winters make doing anything impossible.

The push for 70 mph.

 

[safe]

Has anyone tried taking one of these record setting "tube bikes" and just inserting an electric motor in them?

I'd be curious to see how fast one would go with a legally powered 750 watt motor.

Then you have a true baseline to work with because you are asking:

"Given the 750 watt output rule and not worrying about speed limits how fast is it possible to go?"

...that would provide a nice baseline value. If pedal power alone produced 83 mph then if you tack on another 750 watts you would be up to about 90 mph.

...note that 750 watts is more that is normal for even pro-level riders.

 

[skydog]

You maybe able to extrapolate from the Electrathon results.
I think their 1hr. record is about 53 miles. These would be the closest to a streamlined electric bike. In fact it used to be legal to have a pedal assist but I think that is over with.
Rob

 

[dogman dan]

Re leathers, my outdoor work experience in above 100 degrees, of thirty years, agrees with your limit of 1/2 hour. I've worked in jobsites as high as 140F and for sure, when it is really hot, about a half hour is the max between hose showers. I'll just have to move closer to work. My hubmotor couldn't take it for a full hour last summer either. Sams Club is about halfway home, cooling off in there could get expensive. As for sweating too much, the Israeli army has the recipie for that, 1 liter of water every hour, and you'd be amazed what you can stand. Peadling as hard as I do for one hour in the heat, though, I think I'd heat stroke if I wore full leathers, or even just the jacket. I'll just have to let my dogs lick my road rashes. Won't be the first ones. Gloves and helmet allways allways allways though. Now that it is cold I'm not wearing any of my leather stuff, but I do wear several layers of various materials to grind off on the road.

 

[etard]

I bet that streamliner cabin is a bit of "Misery" wherever you go. Isn't the best part of a bike, motorcycle, the open-air feeling? Wind through your hair (err helmet), smell of orange blossoms (honeysuckle), and the ability to check out that scantily-clad pedestrian...Take this away, I would rather take the bus. :wink:

 

[Zoot Katz]

I bet that streamliner cabin is a bit of "Misery" wherever you go. Isn't the best part of a bike, motorcycle, the open-air feeling? Wind through your hair (err helmet), smell of orange blossoms (honeysuckle), and the ability to check out that scantily-clad pedestrian...Take this away, I would rather take the bus. :wink:

AMEN!

All the electric and alcohol home brew hybrids will never overcome what's inherently sick about the status quo cultural bias regarding our personal transportation schemes. People take their cars too seriously. They confuse them with their social status. They mistake what they perceive as a private activity takes place in the public commons. The glorification of motorised stupidity by Hollywood, Madison Ave and most TV, along with an environment built for the convenience of cars, perpetuates the sickness.

Bikes are about being free of that BS. You learn that it's safe to talk to strangers.

I've yet to hear of bike-on-bike road rage or alien abduction of a bicyclist incident.
I must confess however that test riding a Bike-E had me considering a bus pass.

 

[swbluto]

I bet that streamliner cabin is a bit of "Misery" wherever you go. Isn't the best part of a bike, motorcycle, the open-air feeling? Wind through your hair (err helmet), smell of orange blossoms (honeysuckle), and the ability to check out that scantily-clad pedestrian...Take this away, I would rather take the bus. :wink:

We can agree that they have their recreational purposes and their utility for relatively short distances. But I'd rather pay 5x less to get to the city I need to get to 200 miles away than to look good and feel "open"; Anyways, you can run some form of A/C so it won't be "misery". Since I'm talking about optimal functionality, as opposed to "conventional form(s)", just insulate the insides, make the albedo of the outside near 100%, and run the A/C. While, yes, this will increase the energy usage, it won't be anywhere near the amount of energy used by an open-motorcycle with its much higher coefficient of drag.

And, taking the bus also serves as an alternative, but there are so many disadvantages of that. And trust me, I know... I take the bus! And I've driven my own car before! I think I'm vastly aware of the bus's cons. At least in my town, the bus usually takes 2 times as long as directly going there and you're stuck by their schedule. If you're heading out after 6 P.M. at night, expect an extra 20 wasted minutes by the lengthening of the waiting intervals. And, it also has that disadvantage of being stuck "working the system" which can often entail taking really inefficient routes to go where you need to go. Now, when you start to talk about short distances, e-bikes and e-motorcycles are fine. But we all know that one of its restrictions in being adopted is its inherent suckiness at affordably traveling long distances. Cut down the energy usage and you can... *gasp* increase your range by a factor of 5! Now that's a BIG deal as there's a difference between 60 miles and 300, or even 20 miles and 100 miles. You can buy a much smaller lithium battery...

(And since the hull would probably end up being shaped like an airplane as they've optimized the coefficient of drag for their planes, with a retractable propeller and wings, perhaps you can take a flight as well... :lol: )

 

[safe]

I like the Road Racer design because there is a little bit of aerodynamic work that improves the performance somewhat, but you are still open to the air and still upright and able to look around when you feel like relaxing. It's a highly flexible design that allows either the full races pose (in a tuck) or the relaxed "hey I'm just riding around" pose which is upright. Assuming you have things setup correctly it's a pretty comfortable bike to ride. Also, over time your muscles get in shape for it so your arms get a little more buffed and your back gets good at the tuck position. The only thing that never gets better is the need to arch your neck upwards when in a tuck.

I'm pretty happy with speeds less than 50 mph for the flat... maybe I could get a little more with the "tube bikes" but I wouldn't have the practicality I have now. "Tube bikes" are for straight line speed runs and that's about it. :|

It's interesting to wonder how fast 750 watts of electric power can take someone...