The Skill of finding AC outlet to charge your ebike

[Doctorbass]

I am very surprized that this subject have not been talk alot on the forum yet.

This is part of my Ebike life: finding AC outlet to charge during some long ebike ride!! This should also be your case of some of you guys noh?

This is also something that Justin had to do alot of time over the 7000km he did when he did the cross canada trip in ebike as well!

I would like to have this thread to become our reference to share our great trick when come the time to fill your ebike of green Electrons !

Here is some exemple of subject we could share here:

- your prefered place where you charge your ebike ( ex: gas station , restaurent, tim horton, commercial building, Restaurent countainer trash compactor ( 220V), DIY J1772 adaptor, solar etc....
-the max power of our charger ( vs max power a 15A outlet can take...)
-compact charger idea ex: ( bad boy charger, meanwell, car 12V and RC cahrger...etc)
-anecdote while your charge your ebike.... some people unhappy that you have tripped the breaker of their Coke distributor machine :wink: etc
- stealing electricity,
-your DIY AC universal adaptors
-charging with multiple outlet at a time ( L1 and L2 conflict?).. not a prob for Europeans :lol: ....
-While charging and that you wait, what do you do while you are patient?
Other?


Doc

 

[Doctorbass]

A great exemple about me is the need of fast cahrge my Zero Motorcycle.

The regular 15A 120V ( availlable nearly everywhere in the city on the building) are powerfull, about 1700W but for a motorcycle that is averaging about 70Wh/km that's only 24km per hour of charge :lol: and the wait is someting longer than it appear ..

My zero power Charger consist of 4 compact meanwell 1000W power supply to get 5kW continuous ( each can give 125% output) with a DC-Dc in serie to get the 58V CC-CV and this DC-dc have a trimable current adjust to accomodate every charging power availlable. This is about 26A at 250V AC input MAX .

I came out with a little idea of building a multi extension AC cord to be able to charge from multiple AC outlet that could be located with in about 10m around the bike location. With some anderson quick connect i could link them in serie ( between L1 and L2 if i can find one that is a L2 :lol: or in parallel.
I could add a kind of Phase detector on each branches that would indicate me if they are in phase or opposite., or just install a bridge rectifier that would correct any phase automaticly.. of the charger could take the full wave rectification DC...

Something is interesting here: Finding two AC outlet dont mean you have twice power if they are on a single breaker... but if you can find some that are opposite in phase ( one is on L1 and the other outlet is on L2, than it mean you get 240V 15A at least... and if your cahrger can also take 240V you got it !


Doc

 

[mark5]

Just adding a couple previous threads

opportunity charging points
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=3201

Ever stole electricity?
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=71

 

[thewmatusmoloki]

And another one here http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=26089

 

[mvly]

What we need is to build a map of places to charge so people who go cross country can find the route that best keep them charged. Maybe I should setup a website or something like that where people can explore and map it out. Kind of like a social networking thing to help build the power plug map.

 

[veloman]

There is a La Quinta Inn in Cedar Park near 183 (Austin TX area) that have specific "electric vehicle charging" spots with standard 120v outlets. It was so nice to see that sign and the outlets.

Other good bets can be Starbucks if it's a newer building.

My biggest charger is only 58v 6amps.

I carried my solar panel on my rear rack a few weeks ago and got an extra amp-hour of battery life doing errands one afternoon.

 

[Eskimo]

Full charge takes around two and half hours on my bike, if i have really drained all packs, and is pretty noisy. Cooling fan screams on full power quite a bit. I don"t have clue where to charge when on a strange town. There is occasionally some E-car charging stations here and there, but those usually require a membership of the system, keys or something. My power source is just too noisy for places like McDonalds, coffeeshops,etc. Some gas station maybe will work. It is gonna be interesting, full summer is just starting to bloom here. I may post some pics sometime, where i managed to charge.
Just have replace my ashtabula crank now with adaptor. There"s around half-inch free play on crank pin.

 

[Bison_69]

Hi Doc...

Why don't you build a plug adapter on your emotorbike to connect to the existing EV Quebec hydro station already in place across the province...

General Info - home station: (120, 208, 240, 480 & 600Vac)
http://www.hydroquebec.com/transportation-electrification/pdf/technical-installation-guide.pdf

Quebec Charging station locations and member application:
https://evnet.avinc.com/EVPortal/TheElectricCircuit/FindChargingStation.aspx

Canada Charging station locations:
http://www.emc-mec.ca/eng/locator.php

Charging time:
http://www.hydroquebec.com/transportation-electrification/charging-time.html

SAE J1772 Charging connector circuit:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:J1772_signaling_circuit.gif
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SAE_J1772

SAE J1772 Open Source Mod & Hacking:
http://blog.lincomatic.com/?p=464
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=5664
http://code.google.com/p/open-evse/
http://code.google.com/p/open-evse/downloads/detail?name=J1772.pdf
a lot of handy info to browse on this site Open-EVSE
and many more just Google it!...

 

[davec]

underground parking garages will have outlets at some spots
some of them have outlet by the doors near the stair case

 

[The fingers]

At the church picnic this weekend, some guy plugged an electric guitar into an outlet at the shelter in the park. Next year, my bike will try it out. Could carry a nite lite in the car to test outlets that I randomly see so I can map them for possible future use. Front of stores used to have them for those pony kiddie rides and vending machines. I've even seen a few on the base plate of light poles. :wink:

 

[mwkeefer]

I am actually working on an app to allow eBikers and other EV people to chart and log into an open source database all the known locations of AC outlets, and level of legit (1-10 scale) of using them as in, 1=don't get caught, 10=your welcome to use it, encouraged even.

The app will be available in about 20-30 days both on iTunes app store, a version on cydia and finally we will also have an android version available

This will be a 100% free app though we will accept donations through the site once it is all up and online... I'll post more then.

-Mike

 

[Kingfish]

I've had limited success at "opportunity charging" on my two cross-country road trips. Here are some locations to consider in the Western USA...

Les Schwab Tire Centers (Map)
Located in nearly every modestly-sized town and hamlet, these people are friendly and generous. I have found external-facing (presuming 20A) 110 VAC outlets at every one. Typically normal hours of operation: Mon-Fri: 8:00am - 6:00pm, Sat: 8:00am - 5:00pm. Sunday - closed. The two I used were:

• State Line Road at Hwy 39 (Oregon) and Hwy 139 (California) south of Klamath Falls-OR (on a Sunday), and
• Longview-WA (mid-week).

Pacific Pride (Location Finder)
Advertised as "The Nation's Largest Cardlock Fueling Network", they too have external-facing AC outlets. The link will take you to where you can download their Android/iPhone locator app :wink:

Pacific Pride located in Oregon just south of Longview, WA. Notice the outlet!

Many rest stops have potential to provide power; just hunt around and sniff it out.

Gas Stations may also be willing to help if you can charge AND be out of their way whilst doing it. On the 2011 Road Trip, I utilized

• Union 76 in Truckee-CA, and the
• Chevron in Angel's Camp-CA. Both times I caught a convenient meal during the downtime.
• Also the Shell Station just east of Burney-CA on US 299, slightly west of the Hwy 89 intersection. The attendant set me up where I could take a nap during the charge

Mini-Marts will also do in a pinch.

• Addison’s Timber Mountain Store off the Tionesta Road just west of Hwy 139 in California, south of Klamath Falls-OR. Originally I was seeking out an RV park, but found this to be the manager's office & tavern & basic supply - with special emphasis on basic! Be kind and buy something before you ask.
• At Meyers-CA I pulled off at a Chevron Minimart and found an externally-facing outlet. No one inside knew I was pulling off a charge.

Grocery Stores have outlets too! Found one outside of a supermarket in Fall River Mills-CA and syphoned off a 90 minute charge next to a Pepsi machine.

Nice Pepsi machine 8)

Bike Shops can help too. On the 2010 Road Trip, I broke five spokes during the last day heading towards Sacramento-CA. I was forced to stop in Auburn for repairs. Lucky for me Auburn Bike Works was open on a Monday. It was easier to replace the whole rim.

Repairs were accomplished in about 1/2 hour; enough for me to pic up 0.3V.

Campgrounds and RV parks will have power too. Rassy hosted me at the Gold Beach RV Park in Oregon, and there I was able to plug straight into 20, or was it 30A service?

Opportunities are where you make them. When in doubt, ASK Most people are kind, and more importantly - you have a unique calling card to display. Share the concept with them. Give them a Quarter for the power (they won't take it; but if at a mini-mart, buy something!).

Take Chances, every chance you get! :wink: Think of it as the "adventurous" part of the adventure. Heading out into the unknown is risky business. So is finding a charge.

Good hunting! KF

 

[JennyB]

A great exemple about me is the need of fast cahrge my Zero Motorcycle.

The regular 15A 120V ( availlable nearly everywhere in the city on the building) are powerfull, about 1700W but for a motorcycle that is averaging about 70Wh/km that's only 24km per hour of charge :lol: and the wait is someting longer than it appear ..

I did an 85km ride today at a rolling average of 22.5 kph. There weren't many big hills, so I used only 4 wh/km (5 is more usual). Give me some batteries that could charge at 1+C and a long enough road and I would ride away from you, Sir!

So far, when I've needed to charge I've stopped at a cafe and had a meal at the same time. Some day, though, I would like to see if I can ride more than 400 km in 24 hours, and then I would be looking for other charging opportunities in the wee small hours. :?

 

[Doctorbass]

I am actually working on an app to allow eBikers and other EV people to chart and log into an open source database all the known locations of AC outlets, and level of legit (1-10 scale) of using them as in, 1=don't get caught, 10=your welcome to use it, encouraged even.

The app will be available in about 20-30 days both on iTunes app store, a version on cydia and finally we will also have an android version available

This will be a 100% free app though we will accept donations through the site once it is all up and online... I'll post more then.

-Mike

That's a great idea!

Another app that would be good is an average speed predicator :
you enter:

-the initial battery energy
-the power of charging availlable along the road (average)
-your speed
-type of EV
-battery energy capacity ( Wh)
-chargng frequency ( ratio of time between driving and charging time
-estimated time to stop, charge and return on the road

and it estimate your average speed including the time you take to charge based on these parameters.

Ex:
-you have a motorcycle and drive on the highway at 90Wh per km at 100km/h. ( that's 9kW of power)
-You charge on regular 15A 120V ac outlet ( that's about 1500W of charging power max)
- if you cahrge at 1500W and drive at 9000W
- You need to charge during 6 hours for each hour of drive so your real speed is 100km/h divided by 7 ( 6 hour charging and 1 driving)
= about 14.2km/h averageonly

now if you drive slower (better efficiency, less wind)
-you have a motorcycle and drive on the highway at 50Wh per km at 70km/h. ( that's 3.5kW of power)
-You charge on regular 15A 120V ac outlet ( that's about 1500W of charging power max)
- if you charge at 1500W and drive at 3.5kW:
- You need to charge during 2h20 hours for each hour of drive so your real speed is 70km/h divided by 3.3 ( 2.20 hour charging and 1 driving)
= about 21.2km/h average.

Now same scenario but with Level 2 charge point:

-you have a motorcycle and drive on the highway at 90Wh per km at 100km/h. ( that's 9kW of power)
-You charge on Level 2 30A 240V ac outlet ( that's about 7200W of charging power max)
- if you cahrge at 7200W and drive at 9000W:
- You need to charge during 1h15 hours for each hour of drive so your real speed is 100km/h divided by 2.25 ( 1.15 hour charging and 1 driving)
= about 44.4km/h averageonly

now if you drive slower (better efficiency, less wind)
-you have a motorcycle and drive on the highway at 50Wh per km at 70km/h. ( that's 3.5kW of power)
-You charge on Level 2 30A 240V ac outlet ( that's about 7200W of charging power max)
- if you charge at 7200W and drive at 3.5kW
- You need to charge during 29minutes for each hour of drive so your real speed is 70km/h divided by 1.49 ( 0.49 hour charging and 1 driving)
= about 47km/h average.


(These exemples dont take account of the time to manipulate the charger and this simulation is calculated with the battery is fully dishcharged at the beginning).

Thsi apps could also calculate the optimum speed to get max milleage after taking account of the charging frequency.

Doc

 

[bowlofsalad]

Though I doubt I'd ever have any takers, I was considering setting up some kind of outlet or waterproof plug at the street with a sign with information about the plug like it's power limitations and cost (free).

I imagine offering a little change to any business to cover the cost of the electricity would give you a solid way to get electricity anywhere. Lots of people plug in their laptops at coffee shops, admittedly, an ebike charger may consume much more power than a laptop. You could probably knock on many doors and get power for free or at least source an outlet that way. I wonder if there is a hidden irony in asking a 24 hour gas station for an open outlet.

Something you may also consider is carrying a 10 to 25 foot length of extension cable, maybe that is common sense. This was something I had considered long ago when first looking into ebikes. The downsides to carrying things like chargers and extension cables are the added weight, I think the pros out weigh the cons in carrying a charger by far. However, I don't even carry a charger at the moment myself. Personally, I have yet to draw my pack to even 50% of it's capacity so the concept of needing to charge remotely has yet to be an issue or thought.

Someone in this thread stated that their charger fan is very loud. All things are relative. I might guess the noise level from just about any ebike charger fans would be an inaudible whisper compared to just about any internal combustion engine.

I can appreciate the idea of the open outlet app, but you might consider developing it for android as well.

 

[cal3thousand]

What would be super-badass (And probably impossible in my abilities) is to leverage the Charging network being rolled out by Tesla Moors across the US. (Maybe Canada soon too?)

They have 120kW "Superchargers" that will charge the car's pack in 15 minutes and give 200 miles. That's about 800 miles per hour of charge .

Now, I know the packs we have can handle that kind of charge current, but the potential is there. Can an adapter charger be made to bring it down to e-bike levels?

 

[Kingfish]

Have you seen these?

The EV Project: Blink Network
Apparently it only covers the USA, except for one in Vancouver BC.

Also, Alternative Fuels Data Center
Details missing?

And CarStations.Com
International locations listed.

OK, last one: Google Maps Now Features EV Charging Stations for the story. Now go here:
https://maps.google.com/ and type in the search phrase "ev charging stations near " + <insert your city, state>

I still like the first address where you can see a picture of the station... even though they're all the same

Wired, KF

 

[bowlofsalad]

What would be super-badass (And probably impossible in my abilities) is to leverage the Charging network being rolled out by Tesla Moors across the US. (Maybe Canada soon too?)

They have 120kW "Superchargers" that will charge the car's pack in 15 minutes and give 200 miles. That's about 800 miles per hour of charge .

Now, I know the packs we have can handle that kind of charge current, but the potential is there. Can an adapter charger be made to bring it down to e-bike levels?

Have you seen these?

The EV Project: Blink Network
Apparently it only covers the USA, except for one in Vancouver BC.

Also, Alternative Fuels Data Center
Details missing?

And CarStations.Com
International locations listed.

OK, last one: Google Maps Now Features EV Charging Stations for the story. Now go here:
https://maps.google.com/ and type in the search phrase "ev charging stations near " + <insert your city, state>

I still like the first address where you can see a picture of the station... even though they're all the same

Wired, KF

I have to say, bravo to both of these posts. I saw something online today about tesla making efforts to expand their number of charging locations and this exact idea came to mind, applying their charging to our ebike packs. That would be pretty wonderful. My only hope is that they wouldn't say no to anyone not driving a tesla car. Perhaps they might have RC chargers available, or if nothing else an outlet.

Great sources for those maps and such, valuable information. Sounds like others (?) already have this application for charging locations. https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/plugshare/id421788217?mt=8 Oh, kick ass, they have a android version. https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.xatori.Plugshare&hl=en I wonder if there is a way to preload this kind of information onto an offline smartphone map.

Originally, I was thinking that it might be a good idea, however futile, to put an outlet at the street for charging purposes. But now might feel hypocritical or foolish of me to think I might hope to find an outlet while out but not provide others with the same. I don't know how to add an outlet to whatever map, or what requirements would be necessary, but it sounds like an interesting project. A project that really every ebiker might consider taking upon himself. Range anxiety is kind surely a big deal in the EV world, lots of charge points would surely cut down on my anxiety. Now just to reach for that 15 minute charge mark : P

 

[johnrobholmes]

I used to mark outlets on google maps, but now I can't find the way to view the labels.

 

[swbluto]

Depending on the noise levels of your charger, I found University libraries and university buildings to usually be pretty public and accessible to sit around and wait to charge. No one thinks anything of people sitting down and reading a book, usually... Local libraries are good too, but you have to be careful about the smaller ones since many have mother hen figures that are wary of people staying for more than 30 minutes.

This assumes the battery is portable and concealable. (Like in a backpack)

In my world, my batts take forever to charge so I just make sure to use a platform that's easily capable of long distances. (Hint: Rhymes with incumbents.)

 

[bowlofsalad]

Depending on the noise levels of your charger, I found University libraries and university buildings to usually be pretty public and accessible to sit around and wait to charge. No one thinks anything of people sitting down and reading a book, usually... Local libraries are good too, but you have to be careful about the smaller ones since many have mother hen figures that are wary of people staying for more than 30 minutes.

This assumes the battery is portable and concealable. (Like in a backpack)

I would be really surprised if you handed someone 50 cents for their 25 (or much less) cents worth of electricity asking to use an outlet that they would decline your request. "May I use your outlet to harmlessly charge a battery with about 25 cents worth of power? Here is 50 cents to cover the cost." I am saying this just on the notion of avoiding dishonest situations. Do what you have to do I suppose, but it might be better to avoid those types of situations.

This reminds me of a story I read about some guy who got arrested and put in jail because he plugged his smartphone into a charger on some public city owned outlet, maybe it was near city hall or something. The cop was working under the notion that he was trying to save the city money. I doubt he understands how much power a charger for a smartphone is sucking down, I doubt he consumed more than a penny or two. The judge did throw out the case eventually, but that guy got into a shitty situation over some whacked out cop on a power trip.

 

[swbluto]

Depending on the noise levels of your charger, I found University libraries and university buildings to usually be pretty public and accessible to sit around and wait to charge. No one thinks anything of people sitting down and reading a book, usually... Local libraries are good too, but you have to be careful about the smaller ones since many have mother hen figures that are wary of people staying for more than 30 minutes.

This assumes the battery is portable and concealable. (Like in a backpack)

I would be really surprised if you handed someone 50 cents for their 25 (or much less) cents worth of electricity asking to use an outlet that they would decline your request.

Well, it would honestly depend. A gas station owner, maybe. An average person? Depends on who *you* are, to some extent.

I'd just rather avoid the awkwardness that comes with a negative response because, uh, asking someone to use their outlet is pretty weird.

 

[swbluto]

Depending on the noise levels of your charger, I found University libraries and university buildings to usually be pretty public and accessible to sit around and wait to charge. No one thinks anything of people sitting down and reading a book, usually... Local libraries are good too, but you have to be careful about the smaller ones since many have mother hen figures that are wary of people staying for more than 30 minutes.

This assumes the battery is portable and concealable. (Like in a backpack)

This reminds me of a story I read about some guy who got arrested and put in jail because he plugged his smartphone into a charger on some public city owned outlet, maybe it was near city hall or something. The cop was working under the notion that he was trying to save the city money. I doubt he understands how much power a charger for a smartphone is sucking down, I doubt he consumed more than a penny or two. The judge did throw out the case eventually, but that guy got into a shitty situation over some whacked out cop on a power trip.

Luckily, cops rarely parole university libraries. The worst interrogation you might get is from the book-shelf restocker, lol.

Btw, I did that years ago. I haven't used a public outlet in nearly 4 years.

 

[Doctorbass]

Here our green Hydroelectricity cost about 7 cent per kWh adn nobody really care if we takew few kWh from them or not... jsy are more subject to ask questions about our ebikes and are glas to meet us

Doc

 

[dogman dan]

I haven't actually used many of them, but I scouted for plugs quite a bit within about a 100 mile radius of my house. Just finding places that have an exterior plug is getting quite hard. Newer buildings rarely have any exterior plugs, same for parks. Only the old ones will have an unsecured outlet. Defintiely look for coke and ice machines, but often they now have too many on one outlet, making adding a charger to that circuit a risk.

I was really pleased to see the newly renovated main street landscaping in my town included a plug outlet about every 40 feet, for use during street festivals and events. Last week, I went to the saturday farmers market to visit a friend who is a vendor. Looking for a plug to charge while I yakked, I was appalled to find that all the outlets have security block offs stuck into the plug preventing any "electricity theft". I had enough to get home, but now have crossed that place off my list of places to possibly charge.

In the past, the outlets were just switched off except during the market morning. My "bike friendly" city is not so ebike friendly I suppose. Maybe the remodel didn't include the ability to switch off the plugs?