'Theft of power' lands electric-car driver in jail

[Punx0r]

Good to have an answer to the puzzle. Also good to see that it wasn't any kind of conspiracy against EVs

 

[FeralDog]

Quite so.
One possibility not yet explored is that the Leaf owner was rude or antagonistic to the attending officer, who then went out of his way to make a point by charging and arresting him.

Exactly!
"Had he complied with that notice none of this would have occurred. Mr. Kamooneh’s son is not a student at the middle school and he was not the one playing tennis. Mr. Kamooneh was taking lessons himself." quote from the jonescg Hybridnews story.

This was in the USA State of Georgia, near the city of Atlanta .
The perp , was a reasonably wealthy "immigrant" named Kaveh Kamooneh {currently listed as a real estate developer and the owner of Lili Properties, Inc. }
He never even bothered to ask permission to hook-up to the schools electricity. He was intelligent enough to have known better as he is reported to have a phd. in Philosophy from Columbia University in the City of New York.

Arrogant asshats running wires to USA schools and challenging the police is not recommended. {To those of you from other countries: please note that the USA schools, and even sporting events, have had some horrid things happen in the last few years that heightens local security. Yes, it's a sad condition. }

Stealing anything and then getting rude to the cops doesn't work well in Georgia.
If that Kaveh Kamooneh had decided to steal any electricity , water , or anything else from the rural Georgia hill folk ... well that story would have been much different. :wink:

 

[dnmun]

whattya expect. the guy is an iranian sent to the US as part of the ayatollah's plan to undermine our guvment. he talks the talk too.

 

[dogman dan]

This is what I call flunking the attitude test.

 

[liveforphysics]

With no further research

By the law, he stole. He helped himself to something that wasn't his, without seeking permission.

How is the public facility you paid for, which included a public outlet outside in a public parking lot not yours to use?

Who's outlet is it if it doesn't belong to the people who paid for it along with the electric bill (the public).

He was there to watch his kid play tennis or something. Why isn't the group watching a tennis game at the school jailed for wear on the bench they are sitting upon, surely someone also walked upon grass that was damaged by the foot prints, I bet dirt from shoes was also transferred to places that get swept as well. Maybe it's evening and they have lights turned on at the tennis courts or parking lot. That's electricity that is publicly paid for as well, but only benefits whomever happens to be in that parking lot of course, why is access to a public outlet any different?

I don't see this as a case of "should have got a warning", I see this as a case of someone doing absolutely no wrong, using a public facility they paid for (which is awesome, they would be all waste of people didn't use them), and some evil-doer captures them and locks them in a box.

 

[frodus]

• Mr. Kamooneh had been previously advised by school personnel that he was not allowed on the tennis courts at any time without permission.
• In spite of that notice, Mr. Kamooneh was on the tennis courts that Saturday afternoon taking lessons.
• He was not there watching his son play tennis
• His son IS NOT a student at the school
• He lives in Decatur, not Chamblee
• He was extremely uncooperative and argumentative with the officer that responded to the call
• He accused the officer of damaging his car - the pre-existing damage is on the officer's video when he first drives up
• Had he just said oops, been cooperative and not claimed damage there would never have been a report
• Sgt. Ford's decision to pursue charges was ultimately driven by the previous notice to Mr. Kamooneh
• If Mr. Kamooneh had heeded the previous notice not to be on the tennis courts without permission the incident would not have occurred
• Sgt. Ford was probably feeling defensive when saying a theft is a theft - he was looking at it as he did nothing wrong

We received a 911 call advising that someone was plugged into the power outlet behind the middle school. The responding officer located the vehicle in the rear of the building at the kitchen loading dock up against the wall with a cord run to an outlet. The officer spent some time trying to determine who's vehicle it was. It was unlocked and he eventually began looking through the interior after verifying it did not belong to the school system.

The officer, his marked patrol vehicle and the electric vehicle were all in clear view of the tennis courts. Eventually, a man on the courts told the officer that the man playing tennis with him owned the vehicle. The officer went to the courts and interviewed the vehicle owner. The officer's initial incident report gives a good indication of how difficult and argumentative the individual was to deal with. He made no attempt to apologize or simply say oops and he wouldn't do it again. Instead he continued being argumentative, acknowledged he did not have permission and then accused the officer of having damaged his car door. The officer told him that was not true and that the vehicle and existing damage was already on his vehicles video camera from when he drove up.

Given the uncooperative attitude and accusations of damage to his vehicle, the officer chose to document the incident on an incident report. The report was listed as misdemeanor theft by taking. The officer had no way of knowing how much power had been consumed, how much it cost nor how long it had been charging.

The report made its way to Sgt Ford's desk for follow up investigation. He contacted the middle school and inquired of several administrative personnel whether the individual had permission to use power. He was advised no. Sgt. Ford showed a photo to the school resource officer who recognized Mr. Kamooneh . Sgt Ford was further advised that Mr. Kamooneh had previously been advised he was not allowed on the school tennis courts without permission from the school . This was apparently due to his interfering with the use of the tennis courts previously during school hours.

Based upon the totality of these circumstances and without any expert advice on the amount of electricity that may have been used, Sgt Ford signed a theft warrant. The warrant was turned over to the DeKalb Sheriff's Dept. for service because the individual lived in Decatur, not Chamblee. This is why he was arrested at a later time.

I am sure that Sgt. Ford was feeling defensive when he said a theft is a theft and he would do it again. Ultimately, he did make the decision to pursue the theft charges, but the decision was based on Mr. Kamooneh having been advised that he was not allowed on the property without permission. Had he complied with that notice none of this would have occurred.

http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/24703-Electric-car-owner-charged-with-stealing-5-cents-worth-of-juice?p=515618&viewfull=1#post515618

 

[FeralDog]

frodus : Sir, you have the proper perspective!

Let's see....
Un-attended car parked with wires leading to a Middle School.
Middle-Eastern male approaches car and gets rude & arrogant with the responding police officer.
Thankfully this incident did not escalate to the level of a S.W.A.T. team
In this case, the e-thief was simply looking to steal some "free electricity", and wasn't seeking heavenly virgins ... nor was he wearing a Jokers wig.

Note to EV vehicle chargees : Please be aware that some schools (and parents) are real "sensitive" to strangers hooking up anything to the school and then wandering off. There are all kinds of things that aren't "free" on USA school grounds. Many schools now have notices that "Visitors MUST report to the school office".

"How is the public facility you paid for, which included a public outlet outside in a public parking lot not yours to use?" .... Well, convicted child molesters and sex offenders are not "free" to wander this schools "public facility", nor are drug dealers "free" to hang out on the playground, the public is not "free" to take/steal a basketball left on the school basketball court.

My kids' school has been on "Lock-Down" twice. It frightens them to see police snipers on the roof.
It has made them real nervous to see the events at Newtown, and Columbine ... and well schools are places for kids to learn . They are not a place to steal electricity, and argue with the police, no matter how arrogant and entitled the thief believes he is.
Thieving is not a good lesson to teach kids.
It's tough for kids to understand that schools aren't as safe as we once thought they were.
Sad --- and spooky times we live in.

 

[liveforphysics]

Thieving from the public is what occurrs to buy the school and pay it's electric bill each month.

The public using public facilities is why they are there. I do not support discrimination of excluding who has the right to use them peacefully.

Radically less harms caused in playing tennis charging an EV than locking people in cages.

I find it very concerning your children's school sometimes has snipers on the roofs around it. Insanity. I would find a place to live with less cops.

 

[Punx0r]

My friend is currently deployed in the Middle East. I pay my taxes, and our Armed Forces are entirely funded from such taxes. All his wages come from taxes paid by people like me. I'm going to let myself into his house and drink all his Jack Daniels (he has lots), because it's effectively mine, right?

I'm guessing the powerpoint in question was fitted to power equipment for grounds maintenance. Imagine you're responsible for it, and find yourself in the rediculous position of having to a lock fitted to it because fuckwits keep leaving EV's plugged into it, preventing its proper use.

That's enough for now, I'm off to leave my car parked in the ambulance bay at the local hospital. I'd have to pay to park elsewhere, and I already pay for the hospital through taxes

 

[FeralDog]

Thieving from the public is what occurrs to buy the school and pay it's electric bill each month.
The public using public facilities is why they are there. I do not support discrimination of excluding who has the right to use them peacefully.
Radically less harms caused in playing tennis charging an EV than locking people in cages.
I find it very concerning your children's school sometimes has snipers on the roofs around it. Insanity. I would find a place to live with less cops.

Hummmmmmm, that's a real ... Utopian social view you have.

Where is this magic kingdom of peaceful, good-thief tennis players you speak of ?
I hope your not referring to So. Kalifornia. I remember when San Mo College recently had that "incident" that blessedly had plenty of cops to stop it. I see you live in Santa Cruz ... Do you suggest Oakland , CA. as the promised land of blissfully free e-charging and tennis?

I will take part of your advice, I will find a place to live with less thieves (or insane people). We here experience the real definition of "diversity".
Living in one of the top ten most violent places in the USA does wear on the soul, and make one quite defensive. Never a dull moment though. :wink: As a virtue; one does develop a keen eye for trouble.
That unicorn garden perfect place is getting harder and harder to find ... Cause lots of wealthy, arrogant , and entitled folks seem to beat me out for a good spot !

Oh well, any suggestions from the ES board for other "free stuff" we can take from the public.

The kids may like a room furnished with "free" fire hydrants, park benches, and some cool street lights.
Power to the People

 

[Sancho's Horse]

While I am not a fan of the growth of police acting as ad hoc county and municipality tax collectors, enforcing growing lists of billable, legally taxing infractions, while ignoring the very real theft of my bicycle a few years back (even with perp, evidence of my ownership, and bike's location), the one tax I am fairly happy to see them enforce is the a#%hole tax. Maybe this was the a&/hole tax being enforced.

Arbitrary, I know, but a bit of arbitrariness, even with the clear risk of overstepping, sometimes isn't bad, and is increasingly missing. Reminds me of simpler times, like when that kid stole my fishing rod at Boys Club summer camp, and Nick confronted us, assessed the truth, and told the kid to give me back my fishing rod. When the kid said, "but its mine", Nick said, "not anymore." Case closed. Actual Justice.

 

[grindz145]

This is what I call flunking the attitude test.

He didn't even talk to anyone at the time, the police came to his house afterwards...

 

[liveforphysics]

Tell me, who owns a public facility?

Why should the owners be restricted from anything safe/peaceful they want to do with what they own?


Should a public park charge you a land use fee and grass damagd fee when you play frisbee? What about a street light? If you enjoy the use of a streetlight walking at night, are you stealing that light or using it?

 

[Icewrench]

" The officer spent some time trying to determine who's vehicle it was. It was unlocked and he eventually began looking through the interior after verifying it did not belong to the school system."

Wonder if he had or needed a search warrant?

Seems like the tennis player failed the old attitude test a time or two.

 

[flathill]

Haha

My evil plan is to use my solar powered calculator at night outside the school. Leeching off their night light. Muhahaha

I don't trust anyone from England. 8 way cameras on every street corner in London. Only an fool would live in a total police state. If it ever gets to that point in the USA I'm fighting or moving if no one cares. It may already be like that in New York city. Haven't been there for a few years.

 

[liveforphysics]

My evil plan is to use my solar powered calculator at night outside the school. Leeching off their night light. Muhahaha

That's thief of photons, and illegally powering a device capable of assisting large scale terrorist activities (calculator). I'm thinking not only jail-time for you, but perhaps your country of ancestral origin should be invaded at trillions of dollars expense to terrorize other people who might be sympathetic to your photon-thieving cause.


'Merica!

 

[Bike Xing]

Haha

My evil plan is to use my solar powered calculator at night outside the school. Leeching off their night light. Muhahaha

I don't trust anyone from England. 8 way cameras on every street corner in London. Only an fool would live in a total police state. If it ever gets to that point in the USA I'm fighting or moving if no one cares. It may already be like that in New York city. Haven't been there for a few years.

Do it!

 

[scotticeberg]

No, legally this is not theft. The plug was unrestricted in any way, in a place of public accommodation. No signage, nothing. If the school intended its use for authorized personnel only it would be turned off, locked, or otherwise restricted.

This gentlemen will win his case. No judge in his or her right mind is going to issue a ruiling establishing a precedent that allows people to be charged with theft for something like plugging a cell phone in at a park, or plugging in a laptop at the library.

If you believe otherwise you likely have some frocked up authoritarian complex and/or are ignorant regarding legal matters.

 

[FeralDog]

No, legally this is not theft. The plug was unrestricted in any way, in a place of public accommodation. No signage, nothing. If the school intended its use for authorized personnel only it would be turned off, locked, or otherwise restricted.
This gentlemen will win his case. No judge in his or her right mind is going to issue a ruiling establishing a precedent that allows people to be charged with theft for something like plugging a cell phone in at a park, or plugging in a laptop at the library.
If you believe otherwise you likely have some frocked up authoritarian complex and/or are ignorant regarding legal matters.

Hummmm... this wasn't in communist Cuba.
It was near Atlanta ,Georgia, US of A.
Sorry to disappoint those comrades with socialistic viewpoints but a USA Public school is strictly NOT public property. The "public" cannot freely open all doors at will, then wander down the halls taking desk and running off with a boxes of toilet paper; nor can anyone scribble ideological pathos on the chalkboards at anytime day or night. The school has discretion to restrict the entry of outsiders.
http://www.dmlp.org/legal-guide/access-public-property

The school clearly told the perpetrator on prior occasion : quote --> "Sgt Ford was further advised that Mr. Kamooneh had previously been advised he was not allowed on the school tennis courts without permission from the school . This was apparently due to his interfering with the use of the tennis courts previously during school hours." .

That does NOT give Kamooneh any implication of consent for him to pilfer electricity.
I don't know where some of ya' folk got your Juris Doctorate , but iffin' you have that bar ticket in the State of Georgia, and are prepared to defend that Mr. Kamooneh ... ya' better not ask fer' a jury trial.
Georgia Jury of his peers would shake that arrogant thief like a bulldog with a rag.

 

[-dg]

I hope your not referring to So. Kalifornia. I remember when San Mo College recently had that "incident" that blessedly had plenty of cops to stop it. I see you live in Santa Cruz ... Do you suggest Oakland , CA. as the promised land of blissfully free e-charging and tennis?

I happen to live in Oakland and respectfully suggest you step off.

This discussion of the social morays of opportunistic EV charging, which is an interesting topic that will apply to more and more of us has has degenerated into the usual morass of internet blowhards and casual racism. The national origin of the Leaf driver is not even slightly relevant to the story despite some commenters xenophobia and religious bigotry. Bringing Oakland into the discussion is even less relevant and I suspect you don't want to own your reasons for doing it.

Back on topic, I'm generally supportive of the idea that EV drivers should be presumed to be allowed use of any accessible charge points. The noise, chemical, and carbon pollution avoided benefit society more than the cost of the electricity. However, this particular Leaf driver appears to be a jackass and was probably asking for it. So this is not the best test case for promoting access to charging resources.

 

[liveforphysics]

Thieving from the public is what occurrs to buy the school and pay it's electric bill each month.
The public using public facilities is why they are there. I do not support discrimination of excluding who has the right to use them peacefully.
Radically less harms caused in playing tennis charging an EV than locking people in cages.
I find it very concerning your children's school sometimes has snipers on the roofs around it. Insanity. I would find a place to live with less cops.

Hummmmmmm, that's a real ... Utopian social view you have.

Where is this magic kingdom of peaceful, good-thief tennis players you speak of ?
I hope your not referring to So. Kalifornia. I remember when San Mo College recently had that "incident" that blessedly had plenty of cops to stop it. I see you live in Santa Cruz ... Do you suggest Oakland , CA. as the promised land of blissfully free e-charging and tennis?

I will take part of your advice, I will find a place to live with less thieves (or insane people). We here experience the real definition of "diversity".
Living in one of the top ten most violent places in the USA does wear on the soul, and make one quite defensive. Never a dull moment though. :wink: As a virtue; one does develop a keen eye for trouble.
That unicorn garden perfect place is getting harder and harder to find ... Cause lots of wealthy, arrogant , and entitled folks seem to beat me out for a good spot !

Oh well, any suggestions from the ES board for other "free stuff" we can take from the public.

The kids may like a room furnished with "free" fire hydrants, park benches, and some cool street lights.
Power to the People

I can't imagine living a day in your reality. Oakland and the whole rest of the bay area rocks. The Scotts Valley/Santa Cruz area that I live is like an oasis in paradise. It's not uncommon to see whales breaching while surfing world class breaks, the amazing redwoods and forest roads are the best riding on and off road I've found anywhere, the cops wave at deathbike, and it seems like every other car is a LEAF, Tesla, or Prius driven by a hippy-techy. Seeing EV's both on the road, and charging where convenient is a daily part of a my reality, and it's fantastic. I wish the rest of the world adopt SC culture. Words like kind, respectful, non-judgmental, positive, enthusiastic for life, are phrases I would choose to describe the people I encounter in my local community.

Also, Oakland is a pretty awesome and diverse cultural area, more so than SF in a lot of ways, and until you've spent some time exploring it, I wouldn't be quick to judge anywhere.

Just my $0.02

 

[Punx0r]

Luke, you're deliberately obfuscating the issue

The park is specifically intended for you to go there, walk on the grass, sit on the benches etc. Likewise, the photons from the streetlight are intended to light your path. If they also happen to power your calculator then that's ok, because you haven't impeded the primary function of the streetlight. If you were to completely obscure the light at source with a solar panel, then you could be inhibiting it's primary function and this would be unallowable. Likewise, the flowers in the park are for your enjoyment, but you may not dig them up and take them home.

Powerpoints in public places for public use are often signed as such.

Public-funded schools are owned by the public, but we also elect someone to dictate and control access to that resource. We also elect to have police (see "policing by consent") and pay their wages, but we cannot (sadly) use that argument to refuse to accept a parking ticket.

Haha

I don't trust anyone from England. 8 way cameras on every street corner in London. Only an fool would live in a total police state.

Racist

 

[dogman dan]

He did talk to the cop at the school. I wonder what he said that made that cop care enough to go farther than telling him "stop doing that".

Of course, every force has one cop you can't pass the attitude test with. That cop would have tazed and cuffed him immediately.

 

[FeralDog]

---"dg I happen to live in Oakland and respectfully suggest you step off.
This discussion of the social morays of opportunistic EV charging, which is an interesting topic that will apply to more and more of us has has degenerated into the usual morass of internet blowhards and casual racism. The national origin of the Leaf driver is not even slightly relevant to the story despite some commenters xenophobia and religious bigotry. Bringing Oakland into the discussion is even less relevant and I suspect you don't want to own your reasons for doing it."

I did step off the BART Station in Oakland, CA because I used to live nearby IN OAKLAND. I worked in San Jose and owned part of a small store near the Panhandle in San Francisco (it went broke along with my savings). My lovely girlfriend was Chicano and we would take her young brothers and sisters to the beach in Capitola and the pier in Santa Cruz (via 17 thru Scotts Valley). I did see a lot of casual racism in that oasis in paradise but I didn't catch many tennis matches in Oakland. I don't take offense at you Bay Area folks for jumping to leftwing conclusions. I found that snap assumptions were a common trait amongst the Berkeley students and I got used to their sensitivity about them living in what they perceived as the cultural center of the universe. I found it a pernicious tendency for the uber-liberals to throw that racist term at anyone vaguely disagreeing with them to be an interesting phenomena.

--- "liveforphysics" I can't imagine living a day in your reality. Oakland and the whole rest of the bay area rocks. The Scotts Valley/Santa Cruz area that I live is like an oasis in paradise. It's not uncommon to see whales breaching while surfing world class breaks, the amazing redwoods and forest roads are the best riding on and off road I've found anywhere, the cops wave at deathbike, and it seems like every other car is a LEAF, Tesla, or Prius driven by a hippy-techy. Seeing EV's both on the road, and charging where convenient is a daily part of a my reality, and it's fantastic. I wish the rest of the world adopt SC culture. Words like kind, respectful, non-judgmental, positive, enthusiastic for life, are phrases I would choose to describe the people I encounter in my local community. Also, Oakland is a pretty awesome and diverse cultural area, more so than SF in a lot of ways, and until you've spent some time exploring it, I wouldn't be quick to judge anywhere.

Thanks for reminding me/us that there is a magic place of e-milk and e-honey!
We have a riverboat casino, and uh , er well snow, and we are the 2013 second Most Dangerous City In The USA !!! Detroit beat us out for #1. I hope the guy from Oakland doesn't get mad but we beat #3 Oakland, CA for most dangerous.

On topic: I like what PunxOr said, "you're deliberately obfuscating the issue "

 

[mvly]

Looks like it's illegal to charge using those public ports. There goes my idea of crowd sourcing to let people know of unprotected outlets in public for public charging.

http://www.slate.com/blogs/future_t...arging_electric_car_in.html?wpisrc=burger_bar