Think I got the wrong Hub, advice needed please.

[Scorefield]

Did order my first wheel and when I finally got it, then I think it's the wrong one.
I don't have much knowledge on hub wheels but could use some advice, please.

Wanted to buy a Phoenix Brute Motor with Disc Brake for Rear Wheel from:

http://www.crystalyte.us/parts/motors.htm



Shipping came and I got this :
View attachment 1



I don't know how to spot the difference beside there is a big sticker where it says Racer.

How do I find out which model it is and did I just got a 5303 and not a 5305.?

Thanks in advance.

 

[Drunkskunk]

there are no external diffrences other than the sticker. the only way to test it would be to hook it up and check the speed.

But if it says racer, its probably a racer. I'd call the person you bought it from and see what they have to say about it.

 

[Scorefield]

Talked to the guy and he told me that it is just a wrong sticker, which I'm having a hard time to believe that.
Asked one person atm and he was 99,9% sure that my hub is the wrong one, so please give some knowledge.

Will a 5303 have 8 wires connected to each phase green, yellow or blue,
and a 5305 have 4 wires connected to each phase green, yellow or blue.?

Inside my hub I see 8 and not 4. :?

 

[Lock]

Forgive me, but I have to ask... is this hub for negotiating the hills around Copenhagen?
Lock

 

[johnrobholmes]

The little sticker that has the barcode will give the model number. The 5303 is the racer, and the 5305 is the brute. Which model number is on the barcode?

 

[methods]

We counted the phase wires. There are 8 - that means that it appears to be a 5303 as labeled (racer).
A 5305 has 4 phase wires

(assuming the same gauge wire is used in the 5305 and 5303)

-methods

 

[methods]

For future reference, other ways to determine the KV of a motor

* most obvious - hook it up to the controller and compare its RPM to that on the Ebikes.ca simulator

* somewhat more complicated - Drive one of the coils with 10A constant current and measure the resistance. Compare it to the phase resistances listed under the simulation graph. DONT just measure the resistance with your DMM - it is below half an ohm and you wont get a good reading.

* Retarded idea - build a fixture to hold the axle, wire a DMM to the phase wires, get in a car, drive 10mph, open the door, run the wheel alongside the car, read the voltage
(that was Lukes idea Ridiculous but correct in principle )

-methods

 

[liveforphysics]

I didn't say to build a fixture, I said to clamp one end with vise grips, have the passenger in the car hold that with the tire running against the ground. It would take a good meter to measure voltage that way though, so you would need to use 6 little $0.05 diodes and a cap to convert the output to DC for measuring with a typical crummy meter.

Don't go making my super-ghetto idea sound better than it really was.

 

[methods]

-methods

 

[Scorefield]

Hey and thanks a lot for the fast help, that's really awesome.
Another kind member told me to also look in here Electricals caracteristics of the X5305 hub motor

Forgive me, but I have to ask... is this hub for negotiating the hills around Copenhagen?

There is no hills in Copenhagen but there is a lot of corners around Christiania. :wink:

 

[Scorefield]

The little sticker that has the barcode will give the model number. The 5303 is the racer, and the 5305 is the brute. Which model number is on the barcode?

Sorry but I'm unsure where I should find the barcode, but looks like this hub with the Racer sticker on is a 5303.

 

[Lock]

There is no hills in Copenhagen but there is a lot of corners around Christiania. :wink:

Ah HA!... so it's acceleration you want? Seems like you're wanting to use a sledgehammer when a geared hub might be a better (lighter/cheaper/more efficient/smaller battery pack) hammer for the job...
Lock

 

[johnrobholmes]

If there is a sticker with my symbol on it, I may have put it over the barcode. I received one 5303r-db and one 5305r-db, and I still have the 5303r-db here.

 

[johnrobholmes]

I just gave xlyte a ring, and they remember the order and assured me that correct winds were sent. I know the 3 turn is here, so that leaves one place for the 5 turn to be.

They (he) also stated that the wire diameters have been changing lately, and counting the parallel strands is not a sure fire way of determining the wind count.


He said that the 5 turn will get right at 30mph on 36v, and the 3 turn will hit 40mph with at least 40 amps to use. I say give it a run and see what kinds of speed you get. I am quite positive you do have the right motor.

 

[Scorefield]

Ah HA!... so it's acceleration you want? Seems like you're wanting to use a sledgehammer when a geared hub might be a better (lighter/cheaper/more efficient/smaller battery pack) hammer for the job...

That's exactly what i was thinking of, a good acceleration would be nice around all those corners here and if you have any good ideas then I'm always happy to learn something new, even if it takes me some time.

 

[Scorefield]

If there is a sticker with my symbol on it, I may have put it over the bar code.

I'm somehow unlucky more again, even if it says Racer on the hub with 8 phase wires,
then when I try to find the bar code, I see that it had been taken off and there is also nothing on the backside of the sticker.

I say give it a run and see what kinds of speed you get.

Yes sir, guess I will try to test it somehow. :wink:

 

[johnrobholmes]

Maybe I took the barcode sticker off? I don't remember doing it, but it was a pretty ugly large white thing that would be noticeable.

 

[methods]

I had posted - then deleted my post - in an attempt to stay out of this.... I have my own opinions about Dave at Electric Rider (aka Crystalyte.us). I have bought my share of hubs from him.

If you dont have the stuff you need to run the test you can find out FOR SURE today.

Measure the diameter of one of the 8 strands and report back in mm
If the diameter of one of the individual strands is the same as my 5305 then we know you have a 5303 because every X5 is wound with the same weight of copper.
If it is significantly smaller in diameter then we can calculate the effective equivalent area and determine if it is a 5305

-methods

 

[johnrobholmes]

I would rather not bring it up in public either, but I think this forum is mature enough to see the nitty gritty details and I don't have anything to hide. I must say it was like pulling teeth to deal with them. Very slow communication at first. I decided to set up a wholesale account but they would not give me details of margins until I gave them my information (and time). Upon setting up the account I learned that "wholesale" was the same as their online pricing :lol: :| When I asked why it was worth my time to carry their product, they responded that my customer service was worth an extra 20% for customers. Maybe if it was a $80 hub and I didn't have to compete with them directly....

The person I spoke to regarding the order was a warehouse worker in Kansas, Matt I believe. He assured me that the correct ones were sent, but it would certainly be a bum deal if it wasn't. But, maybe Scorefield wants something fast since his area is flat? With the controller he is using he certainly won't have a lack of torque!

I really don't know the best way to handle the situation if Scorefield needs a rectification of it, I am already down $150 from excessive shipping freights and errors on my behalf (not including time involved). I didn't charge margins on anything, only my time of lacing the wheel. Shipping it back to the US would likely be another $150 or more, so it seems that any outcome is lose-lose for both of us. We are both out our time, I would be out much money, and Scorefield would still not have a hub motor. Suggestions from other members on the situation to remedy in a win-win?

 

[methods]

Damn!
I hear you on that. I have lost a lot of money on similar situations. Just the other day I forgot part of an order - to Australia :| - and the only honorable thing for me to do was to send the remainder of the order express . But even though I lost money on the deal - at least I feel good about it and the customer is satisfied.

I think talking about this in the open is the most healthy thing we can do. So long as we dont let it turn into a bash-thread it will be productive.

My one comment about Crystalyte.us is that the customer service SUCKS - and I dont mean for answering questions like "how do I hook it up" - I mean for straight up business questions like: Can I get a discount for buying 5, Can you deliver via something other than FedExHome, Can we try a PayPal Bank Transfer, etc.

I dont think shipping the hub back is economically feasible for anyone.

It just so happens that lately Luke and I have been talking about moving away from the 5305's (due to excessive internal resistance) and over to the 5303's. I started to do the calculations to try and prove that I could actually run more power thru a 5303 than a 5305 but got side-tracked.

When the rubber hits the road a 5303 will be slightly less powerful off the line but it will feel a hell of a lot better in the mid range! 30mph - 40mph will be like a rocket ship! The only thing I am worried about (if he runs 24S) is the switching losses in the controller. We can get away with 100V 100A on a 5305 because the back EMF ramps up so fast. A 5303 is dangerous because it will allow you to bang the current limit all the way to 50mph

Lets see how it goes.

-methods

 

[Scorefield]

I am already down $150

I'm surprised to hear this because I did payed for the hub and the shipping.
The wheel build labor did cost $108 and I can see that the rim cost $25
and think that you must had earned something on the deal then.
I just wanted a black rim and black spokes on the hub. :?


Methods, thanks for the new info how to test it, I will get the tool as soon as the shops open here and measure the diameter
My point would be to run it in a 24S like some of you is doing it, but good things takes time to make and only waiting on those great balance boards that will hit this forum soon.... Thanks GGoodrum.
Enjoy yours you lucky.....

 

[TMaster]

The wheel build labor did cost $108 and I can see that the rim cost $25

I spent about 3 hours just truing the wheel when I first got my ebike kit. It was soo bad. I still can't get the diameter perfect; it's still got a couple low spots, but i think after riding and adjusting 3 or 4 times I will come around.

 

[johnrobholmes]

The money I lost was my fault, ruined rim, nipple, and spoke set and gross miscalculation on shipping from Xlyte to me. A learning experience for sure

No worries though, I want to make sure you are satisfied. I would rather lose money than give bad service.

 

[Scorefield]

I had some hard time to get in there and measure the diameter on one of the 8 wires that was connected to the yellow wire, but it looked like it was saying something like 0028 on digital vernier caliber.

 

[TMaster]

Just flip the bike over, mount it, and put the speedo magnet on it and test the speeds with no load, and right down what voltage and what controller you have. Then have someone with the 5303 or 5305 do the same. Then you will really know. The speeds should be quite a bit difference from the different models.