Thinking of building a Recumbent

[BATFINK]

Well as usual I have jumped in head first and bought my first recumbent.

It will be delivered later in the week.

It was very very hard to find an older model at a decent price without travelling to holland for one. But I found this full suspension one on ebay.

My brain is burning with ideas already and I haven't even tried riding it. Lol. Oh well it's going to be a fun project I think. First thing will be to test it for a few days then fully strip it down and probably have it powder coated but I'm wondering whether I will customise the frame to hold the batteries internally in some sort of frame modification. I have a ping 48 volt 20amp split battery pack that won't fit into my Norco build so that will have to go the lipo route but I'm thinking I can put the ping to use on this recumbent. They ping weighs about 10kg.

I also have a mac speed hub (1000 watts) can't remember what model. That I could lace up and just go with something crazier for my Norco DH build.

The recumbent will be used for my occasional 30mile canal commute.

Any suggestions greatly appreciated.

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[BATFINK]

I believe it is a "blue glide"by a Dutch company called M5

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[BATFINK]

I think it's 26 inch rear and a 20 inch front wheel

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[pkirkll]

Great, now your hps re slightly lowere than the crank..3-4 inches it looks---- you will like it better....

i would have to have training wheels or outriggers to ride it to keep from falling over !!!!!

Especially when you add some battery weight to it,,,try to keep your weight low and center and that may even help the characteristic----fall over sideways routine.....lol

Main thing is HAVE FUN!

 

[StudEbiker]

That looks like a great bike.

I'm not so sure about the cranks over hip suggestion. I think that is great if you are going pure human power, but for an electric I have my doubts. On my Rans Rocket (which is a similar configuration to yours) at stops I am kinda on my tippy toes which can make for some wobbly stops. On the Bike E (which is a semi-recumbent with the cranks considerably lower than the hips) it's never a problem. I just take my feet off the cranks and put them both flat down on the ground.

If you're trying to milk that extra 25-50 watts out of a bike for pedal power.... yeah, cranks up, but if you have 1500w on call by twisting your wrist, I don't see an advantage.

 

[pkirkll]

Good point....thats why i would have outriggers

 

[Chalo]

Good point....thats why i would have outriggers

They're called "training wheels", and all recumbents should probably have them.

 

[Herrsprocket]

Hi BF,

Curious. What is the brand/model of the front shock absorber for that 20" wheel? I'm always on the lookout for decent 20" shocked front forks, they are rare. I enjoy designing/building my own 'bents, and hybrid e-assist bikes.

Tom

 

[ebent]

Herrsprocket.... Catrike recently has offered a rear suspended trike called Road. I have not seen or tested one yet but I intend to. How would you approach the Road in terms of type of motor and batteries etc. http://catrike.com/catrike_road.html is a link for the Road.

 

[BATFINK]

Any advice on what motor - controller - battery combination would be good for this build, i travel 30 miles commute occasionally and charge during work,

just now i have :

MAC 8T Geared Hub, 9 fet 30A controller and Ping 48volt 20am split battery with uprated BMS (does anybody know what that allows the battery to do over the standard battery) This is my battery.(http://www.pingbattery.com/servlet/the-2/lifepo4-lithium-ion-phosphate/Detail)

I get around 30mph on full throttle but if i used this will probably be be increased with improved aerodynamics as i can pedal it to 35mph, but i was going to use this motor and controller on my Norco full suspension project,

1. should i use this motor and 9 fet controller setup the recumbent?
OR
2. keep it for my full suspension Norco and buy something different for this recumbent build?

i really need to use this Ping split battery pack as i will have no use for it otherwise - it was ordered with uprated BMS

any recommendations?

 

[veloman]

Whether you put it on a recumbent or the Norco is all up to you. Totally different machines there. The recumbent will have better efficiency at speed for sure. 8T mac on 48v is a good balance. I would recommend a 9c or other DD if you have few stops or hills though. Better efficiency at speed and more robust at abuse/heat/high power.

 

[BATFINK]

Cheers veloman, but would any of the DD hubs benefit from only 48volt ping in comparison to a geared hub? I do like to pedal.
Would there be an advantage in speed or efficiency with the DD using the ping over a geared hub using the ping? In both cases I would pedal. Having never had a DD would my pedal power be wasted in the grand scheme of things?

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[www.recumbents.com]

BATFINK: That looks like a good choice for an e-assist recumbent, and the height / position should be good for riding around traffic. It's pretty similar to my daily commuter. It uses 600W - 700W on the flat at 30MPH. I'd suggest A rear hub motor and a pile of lipo mounted behind the seat.

Chalo: Most recumbent bikes are for comfort, so I can see where you are coming from. Some are for speed. You obviously have not gotten "the lesson" from a fast recumbent.

-Warren.

 

[veloman]

You're pedaling effort is still effective on a DD, as long as you have the motor on a little. If you coast the motor, then there is drag compared to a geared. It depends on how often you plan to have the motor being fed power. The advantage with the geared is that if you want to pedal it like a normal bike without power, it's reasonable on flats or downhills. That's my winter setup now- my Mac on a softail Proflex - I can ride it unpowered and get warmer compared to coasting. If I ride my DD with more suspension, it clearly doesn't translate my effort as much.

As far as the battery, that doesn't really matter. 48v 20ah ping is fine for either, though it's a bit heavy for a bike you might ride unpowered.

 

[veloman]

Chalo: Most recumbent bikes are for comfort, so I can see where you are coming from. Some are for speed. You obviously have not gotten "the lesson" from a fast recumbent.

-Warren.

What exactly is this 'lesson'? A realization that fast recumbents are indeed faster on flats/downhills?

 

[Chalo]

Chalo: Most recumbent bikes are for comfort, so I can see where you are coming from. Some are for speed. You obviously have not gotten "the lesson" from a fast recumbent.

The fastest recumbents (lowracers) are the most treacherous from a handling and controllability standpoint. Highracers might be almost as fast, with somewhat less impaired dynamics, but they are far from practical in their starting and stopping procedures. And of course, in both cases the human engine's power output is diminished compared to what it can produce on a normal bike. So anytime aerodynamics are not the dominant factor, these "fast" 'bents are still slower than time-tested bikes.

Under optimum conditions, a street luge or semiprone gravity bike is probably faster than any recumbent bike, but that does not make either one a feasible vehicle. Heck, the fastest formats of normal bicycles aren't even feasible vehicles for most people's purposes.

To be fair, the subordination of muscle power to electric power makes subtleties of biomechanics much less important for an e-bike than it is for a pushbike. So in this regard, e-bents seem to make more sense than regular 'bents. However, inasmuch as electric propulsion makes bicycles more ungainly and harder to manage, the inherent handling challenges of a 'bent become more critical when they are laden with a heavy motor and batteries. I've never tried an e-bent, so I don't know which of these factors is more significant. The tradeoff does suggest that a recumbent trike may be a better platform than a recumbent two-wheeler for electrification.

To demonstrate the advantages of recumbents, I think UCI should provisionally lift its restriction on them from UCI-sanctioned races. They should start with cyclocross events, to allow 'bent enthusiasts the best possible opportunity to debunk criticisms of their bikes.

[youtube]JA7gYqP0LnM[/youtube]

 

[www.recumbents.com]

Yes, "the lesson" is being passed by a recumbent and then watching it dwindle out of sight. It's not sporting to do this to normal cyclists, only to the guys wearing team colors who are obviously working hard to go fast. The ability of a recumbent to climb hills are more of a function of rider power vs total weight, just like on a road bike. 90% of recumbent bikes are heavy comfort bikes, so their reputation for not climbing is deserved.

Part of the reason I laugh at the 20 MPH state e-bike limit is because I can ride my recumbent bike at 25 MPH with just leg power.

Convincing people to to consider things they have fundamental issues with is not productive. Everyone has their own religion, and I am happy to let people practice any religion they want as long as they aren't on a Jihad. Recumbent bikes work for me, and if they don't work for you that is fine with me too. :wink:

-Warren.

 

[veloman]

A few years ago I was out cycling on my road bike, and saw a recumbent about 30 seconds in front of me. Chalo - this was on Bee Caves rd in Bee Caves, heading east (rolling hills, some at 6-8% grade). I am a respectable road cyclist, would time trial at ~24mph average speed, as well as a past cat 2 roadie. So I tried to catch the recumbent rider, who was on a Challenge Fujin low racer. After about 5 miles at seemingly ~27mph I could not reel him in. I posted about this encounter on bentrideronline, and got a response from the rider who said he experienced the same thing, but from the other perspective. So I met him shortly later and he told me he wasn't going full out, just a normal brisk ride. He wasn't a pro or anything, but likely of similar fitness as myself. He spoke of the slingshot effect, where he was able to carry so much more speed into those rolling hills on Bee Caves rd, coming off the preceding downhill.

Chalo, why bring up cyclocross? There is no one contending that recumbents are faster than uprights off-road.


I'm fairly interested in getting a low racer, for pedaling only. Just to see for myself. I know I could put out 2kw on my road bike, and my peak power on a recumbent won't be nearly as close. So yes, I won't say that a recumbent is faster off the line or up a short 10% grade.

 

[Chalo]

Chalo, why bring up cyclocross?

Because cyclocross is a condensed version of all the things a bike is asked to do-- paved surfaces, unpaved surfaces, sprints, downhills, uphills, dismounts, remounts, tight maneuvers, carrying the bike, and so forth. Of all the demands upon a bike and rider that cyclocross (and the real world) imposes, 'bents are capable of only a small fraction of them.

When I lived in Seattle, my friend Joe Kochanowski took some joy in blasting by my first e-bike with his fully faired, monstrously heavy and ungainly 'bent. My bike was only geared to deliver about 18mph on the flat, but he still carried some impressive speed considering the size and weight of his machine. He probably would not have kept up on a normal bike of the same weight and rough construction.

 

[ebent]

Another meaningful factor is comfort. It matters in longer distances. Typically the bike rider needs more breaks than a recumbent rider. This equates to help/hurt speed per hour.

I also find the off road video off topic.

 

[ions82]

I've always been drawn more to the LWB recumbents (like a Rans Stratus or X-stream.) A few years ago, a 4-man team almost broke the RAAM record on an X-stream. From what I've read, some of the LWB designs provide a nice balance of comfort, stability, and performance. I've been trying to decide if I should buy one some day or attempt to build my own. It would be nice to have all of the basic e-bike necessities: 26-inch wheel (at least in the rear), disk brakes, etc...

 

[Chalo]

I also find the off road video off topic.

Of course you do. It points up the shortcomings of 'bents. I can post another video of city riders doing all sorts of things you can't do with a 'bent, if you prefer.

Even the most highway-oriented cyclist must maneuver, ascend, surmount steps, park, and store his bike sooner or later. You can't just ride your bike on highways, leave your bike on the shoulder of a highway and recover it there every time, though with a 'bent you might want to.

 

[www.recumbents.com]

Don't feed the troll.

 

[Ypedal]

I tried a lowracer bent ( a few of them from the same guy ) a couple years back.. damn things..... this from a guy who can ride a unicycle, i totally failed at getting the hang of this in short order, i'm sure i'd get it if i spent enough time on one but in general.. no thanks.

left me with a greasy pant leg, turns like a school bus, cant see jack behind you unless you rely on mirrors being in a horizontal position.. etc....

i DO love my kmx trike however, it also has it's limitations but also benefits, my collection of ebikes is quite complete, BMX, mtb, cruiser, trike, RC-toy , A2B metro, etc..... of all those bikes my 100v upright norco full suspension is still king for my needs as a commuter bike.

 

[Chalo]

left me with a greasy pant leg, turns like a school bus, cant see jack behind you unless you rely on mirrors being in a horizontal position.. etc....

Haven't you heard? You just have to allow plenty time to develop your recumbent-specific muscles and all those problems will just disappear. Recumbent-specific muscles will also make it easy to walk your bike-like machine that has knee-high handlebars, put it in a repair stand, and stash it in your bedroom if necessary. You just haven't given it enough time.

The transition goes much faster if you don't keep a real bike around to remind you how much easier it was to live with.