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Thread for new battery breakthrough PR releases

JRP3 said:
How so? 10S 4680 would be 800mm long assuming only cell length, my mountain bike down tube has only about 500mm of usable length.
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Arrgghhhh….dangit, I screwed up…I misread your post. I thought you were referring to the 4640 (40mm long) cells. My apologies for the confusion.
 
After a product has been delivered to a large body of customers, and the reviews come in positive, then I will begin to ask questions like "How long will it last". Until then it's all just men collecting money so they can wear better cloths and drive better cars.

Have you seen those amazing Canoo EVs?

Canoo Inc. filed for Chapter 7 bankruptcy in January 2025, ceasing operations. They had burned through over $900 million in cash since 2022 and delivered almost no vehicles. With massive debt and less than $50,000 in cash following a failed strategy shift to commercial sale. Skip the consumer in other words and sell direct to government and corporations seeking a 'green' card. Government will buy anything if it's fasionable.

Either way the founders walked away with a packet! Canoo co-founder Stefan Krause was reported to have an annual salary of $720,000 and was granted 2.5 million shares of stock in the company before he left in 2000. It was all just a way to get rich riding a bubble. In Krause's case it was the SPAC bubble. In Dec 2020 canoo shares, after the SPAC merger and going public, were $9300. Did he sell some? He'd be mad in the head if he didn't. That was like 23 Billion in shares. Then he moved to Luxembourg

Oh he did leave a little money in the States, his recorded networth by the sec is like $130k. What's his stash in Luxemburg?
Luxembourg is considered a top-tier European tax haven and a "key enabler" of global tax avoidance, facilitating corporate tax reduction and wealth management through low tax rates, favorable tax rulings, and high secrecy. It acts as a major hub for multinational corporations—such as Amazon and Apple—
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Nothing is genuine anymore.
 
BatteryMooch said:
It’s a 50480 19.4Ah-rated cell made by Ampace…

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Anyway, since Ampace/TDK<>CATL released such a cell, that must mean the JP40 Pro and JP60 is nearer than we might think...

I didn't think they'd make such a thick cell, but I'm guessing Ampace likely has ways to maximize yields with thicker cells, which all-tab designs do help with.

I also just realize that Ampace, just like Reliance, only makes all-tab cylindrical cells.
 
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BlueSwordM said:
Anyway, since Ampace/TDK<>CATL released such a cell, that must mean the JP40 Pro and JP60 is nearer than we might think...
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Hopefully so but their large round cells (I’m assuming others are on the way) are certainly made on another line and potentially in another country and even using a different chemistry. Fingers crossed the new smaller cells are being C Sampled soon though, even B Samples would be okay to test!


BlueSwordM said:
I didn't think they'd make such a thick cell, but I'm guessing Ampace likely has ways to maximize yields with thicker cells, which all-tab designs do help with.
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How does a full-tab/all-tab design help improve yields with larger diameter cells?
 
BatteryMooch said:
How does a full-tab/all-tab design help improve yields with larger diameter cells?
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Past a certain size threshold, you need multiple tabs for wound cells (like all cylindrical). The more tabs, the more heterogeneity introduced, and the lower yields you have.
 
BlueSwordM said:
Past a certain size threshold, you need multiple tabs for wound cells (like all cylindrical). The more tabs, the more heterogeneity introduced, and the lower yields you have.
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I can definitely see advantages for cell IR, current distribution, and aging mechanisms but I‘m not familiar with the advantages for manufacturing yields. So many 21700’s use single anode and cathode tabs.

Do you have any posts for the papers you read about this?
 
BatteryMooch said:
I can definitely see advantages for cell IR, current distribution, and aging mechanisms but I‘m not familiar with the advantages for manufacturing yields. So many 21700’s use single anode and cathode tabs.

Do you have any posts for the papers you read about this?
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This paper is the one I always like to link because it always contains neat information. I linked it directly to the methodology section, where it discussed the downsides to inhomogeneities in the manufacturing and welding: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2352152X23033406#s0010

Here's the 2nd one, but related to 21700 cells: https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1002/ente.202200583

The main downside to manufacturing all-tab electrodes is that you need new equipment to do so. A bit problematic for established manufacturers with designated facilities, but not for newcomers.
 
Thanks!
But those papers seem to just address the lower costs and greater throughput that a full-tab process can bring along with the greater performance benefits we’re all enjoying. There’s no mention of manufacturing yields, just potentially greater production speed for a machine (or the floor space it would take up).

For me, yield is the percentage of usable cells (or of a particular grade) compared to the total production run. It’s an indicator of the degree of control the company has over the process, a measure of how good they are at creating higher grade cells. But we might have different definitions.

For you, is yield a reference to just the shipping volume? That is, a company that makes 100M cells per year would be said to have a higher yield than one that makes 80M cells? No matter how many were lower grade destined for recycling?

Interesting papers though! It’s always great to read those that can be directly applied to the cells we typically use. Especially with that one paper using Samsung 50E’s.

BlueSwordM said:
The main downside to manufacturing all-tab electrodes is that you need new equipment to do so. A bit problematic for established manufacturers with designated facilities, but not for newcomers.
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Agreed! Reliance has been a great example of a new company creating only full-tab cells with a large number of new releases. Compare that to the “legacy” companies like Samsung, LG, Murata, Moli, etc., who are just now starting (or haven’t even started) creating full-tab cells.
 
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So, here's a little summary of CATL Tech Day

- Ultra high power density high energy LFP cell (Shenxing 3)
- 240mAh/g High Ni NMC single crystal has been made
Optimizations for high power charging:
- Cell: optimal cell length (300mm), flexible extremely electronic conductivity SEI, expanded graphite anode for higher intercalation speed
- Cooling: Top tabbed cooling, combined with high thermal conductivity pack potting
- Low temp charging: improved electrolyte mix to minimize solvation energy and interfacial resistance and AC pulse heating. For the latter, just like how low/optimal frequency charging can improve charging speeds and efficiency, maximizing inefficiencies while minimizing side reactions can also be done

- Qilin battery: 280Wh/kg_600Wh/L at the cell level (prismatic), 10C charge/discharge, 30C peak, still NP tech
- Semi-solid electrolyte Condensed Battery (ground vehicle grade): 350Wh/kg + 760Wh/L, thinner tougher titanium casing
- Freevoy battery: LFP, NMC(A)/NCA, Hybrid (gradient cathode system with LFP -> NMC)
- Naxtra Gen 1 battery: 2 cell types. One with a hard carbon anode, one with an anode-free sodium metal anode cell.

It looks like CATL is indeed playing with us regarding the Naxtra stuff.


You'll see how CATL both has a hard carbon anode product and a self forming anode (anode-free) sodium-ion cell design. That must either mean one of CATL's products uses a hard carbon anode or they coat the sodium metal in very thin hard carbon to minimize side-reactions. Maybe something else entirely, but eh.
 
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BlueSwordM said:
So, here's a little summary of CATL Tech Day

- Ultra high power density high energy LFP cell (Shenxing 3)
- 240mAh/kg High Ni NMC single crystal has been made
Optimizations for high power charging:
- Cell: optimal cell length (300mm), flexible extremely electronic conductivity SEI, expanded graphite anode for higher intercalation speed
- Cooling: Top tabbed cooling, combined with high thermal conductivity pack potting
- Low temp charging: improved electrolyte mix to minimize solvation energy and interfacial resistance and AC pulse heating. For the latter, just like how low/optimal frequency charging can improve charging speeds and efficiency, maximizing inefficiencies while minimizing side reactions can also be done

- Qilin battery: 280Wh/kg_600Wh/L at the cell level (prismatic), 10C charge/discharge, 30C peak, still NP tech
- Semi-solid electrolyte Condensed Battery (ground vehicle grade): 350Wh/kg + 760Wh/L, thinner tougher titanium casing
- Freevoy battery: LFP, NMC(A)/NCA, Hybrid (gradient cathode system with LFP -> NMC)
- Naxtra Gen 1 battery: 2 cell types. One with a hard carbon anode, one with an anode-free sodium metal anode cell.

It looks like CATL is indeed playing with us regarding the Naxtra stuff.


You'll see how CATL both has a hard carbon anode product and a self forming anode (anode-free) sodium-ion cell design. That must either mean one of CATL's products uses a hard carbon anode or they coat the sodium metal in very thin hard carbon to minimize side-reactions. Maybe something else entirely, but eh.
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240mAh/kg => 240mAh/g
 
Another snoozer from Donut, quick swap scooter and bike packs, claim to be working with partners on these.


Ziroth takes a look at CATL fast charge tech

 
I'm here again with another very important highly detailed article on the subject of cell electrolyte migration. This time, the testing was done with a Samsung 35E.

I'm assuming the findings can be extrapolated to infer behavior with other cells of similar design age, such as the NCR18650GA, VTC7, and similar 21700s cells from the era like Samsung 50E, LG M50, etc.

This might explain why some cells behave rather poorly in higher rate tests; they don't behave well if not given a proper rest period or thermally managed.

View attachment jesae63fef7_hr.jpg
 
The latest from Donut is just another useless video showing that a cycled cell didn't swell much. More interesting is Ziroth claims to be working on an exposé video:
I’ve got one in the works including interviews from company executives and scientists working with those on the inside of the donut lab project. I’m taking my time with it to completely dismantle the whole scam - the financial crimes are pretty crazy, if no one goes to jail I’ll be amazed.
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https://www.reddit.com/r/DonutLab/comments/1tbxud6/_/olkkf6t
 
yooper2001 said:
I confess I did... after experiencing the Bluetti NA home power station... it was weak and twice the size.. but maybe cheap cold tolerant ebike batteries are feasible!
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Agreed. Sodium-ion batteries have a significantly lower energy density compared to lithium-ion batteries. But Sodium has its potiential of making batteries cheaper because sodium can be found like almost everywhere...
 
Timothy C said:
Agreed. Sodium-ion batteries have a significantly lower energy density compared to lithium-ion batteries. But Sodium has its potiential of making batteries cheaper because sodium can be found like almost everywhere...
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In the article I mentioned, with new tech, they match lithium ion. In density.
 
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