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Thread for new battery breakthrough PR releases

Either it doesn't actually achieve 400Wh/kg or they are delaying proving it for some reason, maybe to increase the suspense and hype. Either way it's all very odd. The speculation that what they have cannot be patented and will be copied as quickly as possible lends some credence to their slow rollout of data as they build name recognition and attract investors/partners.
 
Hillhater said:
Of all their claims, the simplest and quickest to verify is the energy density…(@ 400Wh/kg, its not particularly exceptional !)
So why has it not yet been done ?
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Good marketing says you always keep the best for last.
If they did a full data dump on Day 1, or released the stuff we really want to know up front, then no one would talk about them after that. Dragging it out makes sure it’s talked about for weeks, all while they can look for money and do more testing.

They don’t need any of us to believe it’s true. The ones who want to buy the cells or invest in the company are put on NDA and told everything. So DL must be confident that what they have is actually good enough.

All of our doubting will be put to rest, presumably, once the cells are analyzed. In the mean time anything, good or bad, said about these cells keeps them in the news.
 
Ultimately, what is Donuts benefit from all the drama? They make their claim of superior battery technology and then what, meh!
I would propose that we follow the money.
That said, if I had the money I would of put it down for one their revolutionary motorcycles, and when delivered I could post here the truth of the hype.
I do like motorcycles.
 
JRP3 said:
Not sure what you mean by that, almost everyone wants EV's to have more range and to "fill up" as fast as an ICEV.
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It's not really revolutionary in fast charging nor energy density (Unless it can do those 100k cycles at 5-10c). EVs with ten minute 10-80% already exist, but charging infra is not quite there currently in most places.

I'm not sure the EV manufacturers really care for higher energy density cells. To me it seems like theyve determined ~100kw pack size to be ideal for most cars. With current tech you can fit that capacity in 80-90% of cars in the market. Currently the most critical variable for manufacturers (and customers) is cost. Everyone is talking about bringing down the cost of EVs and the only thing left to optimize there is the pack & cells. The industry is already very good at making the rest of the car for as cheap as possible.
 
I'm not sure if cell cost is a big issue anymore. I think you can get 100 kWh of cells for around $6000 on the consumer market, so for OEM buying large quantities it should be much cheaper.
 
adsc said:
I'm not sure if cell cost is a big issue anymore. I think you can get 100 kWh of cells for around $6000 on the consumer market, so for OEM buying large quantities it should be much cheaper.
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LFP prices are somewhere in that range for manufacturers, but NMC is about 50% more. That difference is "just" $3000 but it makes such a huge difference that manufacturers are moving to LFP (outside of USA) despite lower energy density. Car manufacturers operate at massive scale and even dollars per car add up. If Toyota was selling only EVs and could save say $100 per car on cells that would be a $1B saving. FWIW at least GM&Ford say that the largest barrier to ev adoption is battery costs.
 
kdaVal said:
It's not really revolutionary in fast charging nor energy density
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It is if you can combine both at a lower cost. If there is a cheap 400Wh/kg cell with fast charging and high discharge rate with at least 1K cycles please supply the link so I can buy it.
 
adsc said:
I'm not sure if cell cost is a big issue anymore. I think you can get 100 kWh of cells for around $6000 on the consumer market, so for OEM buying large quantities it should be much cheaper.
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The battery is still by far the largest single cost item in building an EV, of course it's a big issue and will remain so for years. OEM's want to sell at a profit and margins are not that high, many are losing money on the EV's they build.
 
kdaVal said:
I'm not sure the EV manufacturers really care for higher energy density cells. To me it seems like theyve determined ~100kw pack size to be ideal for most cars. With current tech you can fit that capacity in 80-90% of cars in the market.
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That's the problem, current tech. Higher energy density cells allow lighter vehicles with more range which is what customers want. The limitations of current tech is what has created the "ideal" pack size, which is not ideal, and I'd say most EV's sold come with less than 100kWh packs because of cost and weight.
 
adsc said:
If you do a full cycle every day, 10k cycles is 27 years. Do you really think a battery can remain technologically relevant for 27 years?
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Sanyo / Panasonic Eneloop AA cells have been available for 21 years now. I still do buy them. I assume they will continue to be technologically relevant in another 6 years.
 
Back in my Teen years, I used to get so disgusted with the games females play, the disgusting attempts at manipulation where they thought they were being so clever, that when they'd start to play games, I'd just lose interest.

So After a life as a bachelor for life, I find this whole Donut rollout disgusting, contemptible, that the end goal is not worthy of interest. She can shake her goodies in my face and I'll raise an eyebrow, but not bite, and certainly not chase.
 
I find it amusing, and if they turn out to have a real 400Wh/kg cell with high C rates and high cycle life, cheaper than lithium as claimed, we'll all be lining up for it.
 
In the past, it was a pretty foolproof sign that it's a scam when they were promising a version 2 without even having shown a version 1. But nowadays? Who knows? If it's a scam, it's a very weird way of running it, that's for sure.
 
BlueSwordM said:
Soooo why didn't they test V2?
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I’m sure they have internally but never interrupt a successful V1 marketing campaign with V2 info. 😀

All of the manufacturers have V2, V3, etc., cells in development though. They only talk about the ones that are far enough along in development for them to be reasonably sure they can hit the target performance, yield, availability, and price targets for. Details are often held back until a certain trade show comes along too.

And talking V2 when V1 hasn’t even hit the market just makes buyers want to wait, zapping V1 sales...IMO.
 
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what's up with the donut mystery? I went through a journey of thrills, doubt, confusion, scepticism, hope. All of that was at least entertaining while it lasted. And now - not much going forward any more?
 
New DonutLab Video is another non-show. We learned that they use a 96s2p battery pack configuration in the Verge bike, that's basically it. The rest was just marketing claims.
 
adsc said:
New DonutLab Video is another non-show. We learned that they use a 96s2p battery pack configuration in the Verge bike, that's basically it. The rest was just marketing claims.
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The usual weekly BS we got served for the past weeks. btw, BYD new supercharger is charging faster than the motorcycle showed in the video
 
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