Tonaro User group

[gorach]

Anders, the hobbyking 4*6s charger looks ideal and should properly balance charge all four of ur 6s lipo in under an hour. However you will have to remove the lid of your battery box each day to access the individual leads so a quick release method like Floyd1 uses for his lid might simplify that. I bulk charge all four using the discharge port using a 400w chargerhttp://www.bmsbattery.com/al...po4li-ionlead-acid-battery-ebike-charger.html set at 50v which takes a little over an hour. But every week or two the individual blocks must be removed and balance charged individually using an imax b6, which isnt as tedious as it sounds if you first bulk charge them to about 80% first. And you need a power supply unit for the balance charger as well.
Building a slightly bigger fibreglass battery box with room for the controller etc might well be a good option.

 

[Ahoog]

Anders, the hobbyking 4*6s charger looks ideal and should properly balance charge all four of ur 6s lipo in under an hour. However you will have to remove the lid of your battery box each day to access the individual leads so a quick release method like Floyd1 uses for his lid might simplify that. I bulk charge all four using the discharge port using a 400w chargerhttp://www.bmsbattery.com/al...po4li-ionlead-acid-battery-ebike-charger.html set at 50v which takes a little over an hour. But every week or two the individual blocks must be removed and balance charged individually using an imax b6, which isnt as tedious as it sounds if you first bulk charge them to about 80% first. And you need a power supply unit for the balance charger as well.
Building a slightly bigger fibreglass battery box with room for the controller etc might well be a good option.

Thanks for the info!
I will be starting off with the hobbyking 4*6s charger first and charge the battery at work since I will be bringing the battery in to the office anyway. It's way too cold to keep it on the bike during the winter months here in Sweden, right now around -15C
Later I'll get the bulk charger I think...

So, the stock controller is ok to run with 44V lipo?
And of course I need some kind of BMS, right... Manual or automatic Will it be sufficient with a Speedict eBike device you think, and what will I be looking for? Voltage?

 

[gorach]

Hi Anders, Ive just been looking at this site again- http://www.bmsbattery.com/48v/496-48v-10ah-lithium-ion-electric-bicycle-battery-pack.html and think maybe this product is both cheaper and more appropriate. Its only 4kg, includes a decent charger, and will last you much longer. Its much safer, will give you another 4volts (over 44v lipo) or so and is plug and play. Your only problem will be fitting it on the back rack-worth asking them the exact dimensions). Their battery packs have come down in price alot since I last looked.........

 

[Ahoog]

Hi Anders, Ive just been looking at this site again- http://www.bmsbattery.com/48v/496-48v-10ah-lithium-ion-electric-bicycle-battery-pack.html and think maybe this product is both cheaper and more appropriate. Its only 4kg, includes a decent charger, and will last you much longer. Its much safer, will give you another 4volts (over 44v lipo) or so and is plug and play. Your only problem will be fitting it on the back rack-worth asking them the exact dimensions). Their battery packs have come down in price alot since I last looked.........

Oh, thanks for looking out for me
However, I think I will go the lipo way anyways since there is no good way to fit one of those on the rack as I can see right now.

Also, I would need to get a new controller and wire that up on the bike which, as I understand it, can be a little bit of work.
It is a nice price though for that kind of battery but I will have all the stuff from Hobbyking, except wiring and connectors, delivered for about $350 which seems ok.

I have thought of fitting the speedict anyway so I don't count that cost

But, did you run the stock controller with your 44V lipo?

 

[gorach]

Yup, the stock controller has 50v capacitors which seem fine with 44vlipo - 50.5v fully charged. You may well be able to run a 48v lifepo with that controller as well, and if you fry it they are cheap and easy to replace. Remember the 12s2p solution requires plenty of wiring as well - series and parallel connections, fuses, switch, cell monitor or wattmeter. Dont need any of that stuff if you can find a 48v battery that will fit. Best of luck anyway.

 

[Ahoog]

Yup, the stock controller has 50v capacitors which seem fine with 44vlipo - 50.5v fully charged. You may well be able to run a 48v lifepo with that controller as well, and if you fry it they are cheap and easy to replace. Remember the 12s2p solution requires plenty of wiring as well - series and parallel connections, fuses, switch, cell monitor or wattmeter. Dont need any of that stuff if you can find a 48v battery that will fit. Best of luck anyway.

Thanks

I ordered the Speedict eBike device, and since I have two stock batteries, I'll try to connect them in parallel first and see what numbers I get from the Speedict.
Then I'll do the shunt mod and collect the numbers and finally the lipo conversion.

I've been thinking of a building a smart battery management system out of an arduino or raspberry pi but it seems to get a little bulky. I'll save that for when I build the new box.

/anders

 

[rroland]

Purchased a new chain wheel (50T) and installed. Much improved over the 42T that is provided.
instead of operating in the highest gear most of the time I can get more speed and no issues at the lower end.
I can say that I get at least 25 Km's per hour on the straight and level just on the throttle. I Find this much improved and I cant really detect any loss of torque in the lower gears. ( Obviously there is but! I feel that the ratios are better suited),he vertical plain but now are.
I also found that I did not have to play with the chain( I think it was a little long as the tensioner cogs were not in the vertical but now are).
Now to upgrade the battery situation.
I am interested to see how the Speedict performs? this will give the comparisons on power performance needed.
I have an IMAX Quattro B6 Charger and this will be a great assistance charging the Lipo's.

 

[ashwright]

What size chain wheel did you get? 5/16 (10 speed), 3/8 (8 speed), 1/2 (bmx)?

Edit: I have probably got those sizes wrong. Don't normally work in inches.

 

[Geebee]

My Esprit does 25 kph stock without assistance, what was your original speed?

 

[rroland]

Details on Chain Wheel attached
my original speed was about 10 -15 Kph another 10 kph is great

 

[WASYLBRYTAN]

...when i apply Power as before the motor is working but no assistance is present. Something in the central drive. The Bike pedals and operates as normal but no drive to the Chain Cog. Sounds like a broken bearing...

G’day Roland,

I may be wrong, but I’m thinking that the problem is not likely to be caused by a failed bearing –which would be more likely to simply make a noise and/or seize up.

If you can hear the motor turning, but simply not getting any drive to the Chain ring, perhaps other more likely possibilities may include a fault in the internal free-wheel clutch (whose function is to allow the motor to be unpowered without putting a drag on the bike); or the failure of a pin which attaches a gear to the motor shaft. Both of these items are internal to the central drive unit.

(I believe that the failure of the gear-pin has previously been reported here on Endless Sphere, but I can’t remember in which post I saw it though).

Let us know how you go with getting the problem rectified –I’m sure we will all be interested in how you go with this.

Best of luck
Cheers

Edit: Grammar

This problem is indeed caused by bearing failure. I have had my bearings replaced twice under warranty in my first two months of owning the bike. Now the same thing just happened again near the end of the second month. This is the third time so I am going to ask for a refund and look for a more reliable bike.

 

[gorach]

Hey Wasyl, these bikes have been produced in quantity for some years now and have been plagued by gearbox problems. As Twain said the bulk of these seem to be either freewheel or drive pin related. I have had two failures in the aluminium clutch housing which slots onto the r/h axle. Tonaro have made several attempts to improve on this part and the latest one seems more robust, at any rate it has lasted 9 months at 1400watts peak on mine, so far. It is quite an efficient system and easy to modify but if you need reliability maybe try a Bosch.

 

[rroland]

WASYLBRYTAN
the broken bearing is two-sided one normal and a one-way
Photo of broken bearing in housing and shell of one-way side.
I suspect if the unit is not true in the housing it can fail.

 

[WASYLBRYTAN]

Apparently, Tonaro designed a more durable bearing unit and this more durable one is the one my dealer installed last time. The durable unit lasted 3 weeks instead of the usual 2 but still broke down. I put 3000km on the bike in 60 days and some people have suggested that I wore out the bearing unit by riding too much. This explanation seems rather far fetched because if this were the case then electric bikes have a very short life and buying one would be a tremendous waste.

 

[georgefromvt]

Apparently, Tonaro designed a more durable bearing unit and this more durable one is the one my dealer installed last time. The durable unit lasted 3 weeks instead of the usual 2 but still broke down. I put 3000km on the bike in 60 days and some people have suggested that I wore out the bearing unit by riding too much. This explanation seems rather far fetched because if this were the case then electric bikes have a very short life and buying one would be a tremendous waste.

You put 3000 km on the bike in 60 days? What did you do, ride from the Atlantic coast to the Pacific coast? These bikes are mass produced and designed for leisure driving not commercial use. Bikes likes cars and trucks require routine maintenace and repair. My Tonaro was $1200 new and that included free shipping, if I get 3000 miles without a major issue I wouldn't compain.

 

[WASYLBRYTAN]

I simply commute for 50km round trip each day. I never abuse my bike; I baby it and keep it indoors all the time it is not being used. 50km per day is average commuting distance in a car and I bought an electric bike to replace a car. If replacing a car wears out an e-bike, then the whole e-bike industry is a fraud. My self powered bike has no trouble putting on that kind of mileage if I have the energy( I will be 60 on my next birthday ) and it was only one third the cost of my Tonaro. If you are satisfied with 3000km for the life of your bike you must have money to burn because it would be cheaper for you to drive a car.

 

[Geebee]

I have to agree 3,000 km is an absurdly short life between failure for a bike, I now have my fingers crossed that mine lasts a hell of a lot longer between failures.
Maybe suggest that the supplier replaces the entire gearbox/converter, I have put some big km's on hubs in the past without issue but this is my first non DIY crank drive.

 

[rroland]

Summer is here
Eat your heart out you northern Hemisphere people .
Well we need to know what is the go with as reported from:
Ahoog
I ordered the Speedict eBike device,
I am looking at this device and think it is up to date .
Comment on my opinion from;
gorach
As for the Cycle Analyst" 90's style console" that is verging on blasphemy in this particular little sphere.

I Feel is that it is excellent and very well supported actually that is possibly an understatement.
I really only need battery (or fuel gage info) a good unit and interested in comparisons of newer versions

 

[Ahoog]

Summer is here
Eat your heart out you northern Hemisphere people .

Well, I wish I could say the same.

However, I'm can happily report that the bike performed excellent in the 15 cm of snow that came today :lol:
Right now I'm on my way to Istanbul so my Speedict has to wait in its box on my desk for a few days more

 

[tommes]

Good things happened here since my last visit in July: A Tonaro user group has started! Ok, here is my Yazoo Yoom Tonaro. Bought it in Austria for 649 EUR new including freight to Germany.

***klick on the mini pictures for big pictures***

Stock new out of the box:


The less price left room enough for some modifications: Avid BB7 MTN rear and front, Fulcrum Red Metal 5 wheels, RockShox Tora 318 Air MotionControl, RockShox Bar R damper, LX/SLX/XT 8x gearing, custom Logo.


Then I exchanged the complete gearbox to the older version.
Stock new version gearbox:

Older version:

Complete bike:



Last pictures from summer - with new headlight: Lumotec IQ Fly E.

 

[Ahoog]

Then I exchanged the complete gearbox to the older version.
Stock new version gearbox:

Older version:

Why did you change the gearbox?

/Anders

 

[tommes]

Changing the gearbox had two reasons:
- the right pedal in the new version gearbox has not the same distance from the middle as the left one, it is 4 cm more outside - you are pedaling asymmetric
- it is not possible to mount 3 chainrings with the new version - see an example with the old version here

Second item is my next project

 

[Ahoog]

Changing the gearbox had two reasons:
- the right pedal in the new version gearbox has not the same distance from the middle as the left one, it is 4 cm more outside - you are pedaling asymmetric
- it is not possible to mount 3 chainrings with the new version - see an example with the old version here

Second item is my next project

Yes, so I noticed... It's not that annoying that I would change the gearbox tough
How is reliability on those gearboxes, I've had no issues so far but I've seen others here having issues with the new version?

Having three chain rings seems like a great idea? How much do you have to pay for the old style gearbox?

BTW, let us know how your build goes

/Anders

 

[tommes]

I did not maintain any gearbox until now, but from postings here and in the german pedelec forum maintaining the old version gearbox is easier.

Having three chainrings is nice in the mountains and in the flat. It is much easier to climb hills and you get more topspeed.
You can go with the SRAM DualDrive as an alternative.

Changing was free for me - I bought a bike with the old version on ebay, exchanged the gearbox und sold it with no loss.

 

[rroland]

I've just ordered one of the Speedict devices. I want to use it in the throttle mode.
Therefore I have ordered the Mercury and the throttle cables.
Danny at Speedict is very helpful and has sent me the connection info for the Tonaro.
Interested about the gearbox discussion.
My gearbox is possibly the new type (I have Nu-Vinci Gears so I have 1 Chain Wheel)
Photo of drive shaft