TSDZ16, 11/34 cassette, 46T Ring - Unstable Motor

[OutbackIdaho]

Greetings from Idaho

Had a Bafang M625 for 5 years but batteries became extinct. Decided I had enough of ghost pedaling. Swapped the Greenspeed Magnum XL over to a TSDZ16 motor. Have been working on this all through my staycation to not much avail. Cannot get past 10 MPH no matter the speed setting on a EKD01 display.
Note: Am quite aware of the torque differences on the Nuvinci (60 nm) and TSDZ16 (160 nm).
Came here because this forum is quite famous, and a lot of experienced individuals reside here.


Bought my TSDZ16 from Johnny Nerd Out along with two 48V 17.5Ah batteries. Have no issues getting to 10 MPH, and the speed was increased to 35 MPH, although had a higher setting with no change. I don't plan on going over 28 MPH if I can help it, cant wheels are scary at that speed.

What I have tried or done"

• It's not in Street Mode, is currently at its maximum near maximum speed of 35 MPH.
• Have it set to 20" wheel size, even tried 21" as I have 20 x 2.15 Schwalbe Pick-Up Cargo E-bike tires. 1640 circumference.
• Have tried moving the speed sensor from 3/4" to up close and personal, no change. Have a Bosch magnet to install that just came in.
• Mode 5 gives an easier pedal, yet no speed increase past 10 MPH. Feels like the display/motor is not unlocking, and I'm ghost pedaling at 10 MPH...
• Does not matter what mode I am in, there is no sustain in power nor any speed increase. When my personal speed lowers the power kicks back in at 5 MPH.
• Have spun the snot out of the pedals and no change. Think I do 50 to 60 RPM on my own. Plodding along or fast pedaling makes zero difference to output.
• Throttle really gets with the program and it zooms up with maybe half a turn of the chainring. Boom! Stops at 16 MPH. Again, feels like something is not unlocked.
• Have satisfactory get up and go from pedaling anyhow as was used to that on the M625.
• Have tried various gear ratios on the n380. The hub is still functioning.
• Put on the 42T chainring when I was assembling the motor. Do have a stock 44T chainring, but the 42T is more sleek.
• Speed sensor is on the back wheel. Used a nylon bracket with a speed sensor mount to offer better angles to spoke/magnet.
• EKD01 has SW: EKD01_TB_N22 & HW: B02NU_V1.01
• Anderson connectors... plan on swapping to XT60's once I can get this thing to get to 16 MPH on its own. (Warranty thing)
• Factory Reset on EKD01 did no good, tried a few times in fact.
• When I had the Bluetooth app connected, it did not show any updates. Bluetooth is disabled when I am riding, don't trust it. Heard rumors it can set the motor to Firmware settings, overriding the display.
  

    Can get between 6 to 10 MPH, then no increase no matter what mode I select. I'm perplexed. Bench mode I can hand pedal it to 10 MPH with effort, and bench test works. Actual road test however...

YouTube bench test - Appologize for the breathing, long days - not enough sleep trying to figure this thing out.

YouTube road test, Garmin recorded the on screen displays, camera recorded the EDK01 display & cadence of my plodding. Was tired. Am tired.

Thus I am totally perlexed as how to proceed. Should I install the OEM rear wheel with cogs for a test? About the only thing I can come up with.

 

[OutbackIdaho]

Did notice an oddity last trip out. Was going along and the motor was spurting, then died. Had no power. Went and road manually, and got a safe place to look at the battery did not fully lock into the tray or something, and it slid out. The trap kept a grip on the battery just fine.

Connected the battery, and started riding back pulling a Wike trailer with maybe 50 pounds of load over the axle. The power sputtered, and the trike moved like the trailer hitch was undone or on a rope, but that was not the case. Got home, removed the trailer, and went for a normal ride.
Motor still sputtered or surged erratically. Thought what now?!? Not sure if the Anderson connectors got hit by a strap water spurt or puddle, or if the trailer causes too much drag, or what. Stopped, checked the wiring, reconnected a few times. Seemed to lessen up. Hit the throttle a few times, no issues. Was about to send a note off to the vendor.

Decided to turn the motor off. Disconnected the battery. Drained the display's power. Did a factor reset (which I only think it resets the display, not the motor). Turned the battery power on and off a few times. Then went for a ride and it was functioning normally again.


When the weather cools down some I'm going to get some XT60's and replace those dumb Anderson connectors. Are there some really good XT60 connectors, or are they all about the same? Want to be able to get a good water resistant seal from the connector to wire areas.

 

[offGridDownUnder]

Did notice an oddity last trip out. Was going along and the motor was spurting, then died. Had no power. Went and road manually, and got a safe place to look at the battery did not fully lock into the tray or something, and it slid out. The trap kept a grip on the battery just fine.

Connected the battery, and started riding back pulling a Wike trailer with maybe 50 pounds of load over the axle. The power sputtered, and the trike moved like the trailer hitch was undone or on a rope, but that was not the case. Got home, removed the trailer, and went for a normal ride.
Motor still sputtered or surged erratically. Thought what now?!? Not sure if the Anderson connectors got hit by a strap water spurt or puddle, or if the trailer causes too much drag, or what. Stopped, checked the wiring, reconnected a few times. Seemed to lessen up. Hit the throttle a few times, no issues. Was about to send a note off to the vendor.

Decided to turn the motor off. Disconnected the battery. Drained the display's power. Did a factor reset (which I only think it resets the display, not the motor). Turned the battery power on and off a few times. Then went for a ride and it was functioning normally again.


When the weather cools down some I'm going to get some XT60's and replace those dumb Anderson connectors. Are there some really good XT60 connectors, or are they all about the same? Want to be able to get a good water resistant seal from the connector to wire areas.

XT90s appear to all be manufactured with anti-arc resistors incorporated. If you're going to change the connectors anyway...

 

[lnanek]

Was trying to locate a 50T chainring for the TSDZ16, just not found anything past the 48T that really takes a lot of humping to get to 20 MPH. Would like to attain 20 MPH without a lot of strenuous effort.

Not looking to be a speed demon. It is mostly the flats is where this motor lacks oomph. Unless there is some sort of grade it falls short on support when riding laid back.

I use this 75t ring on my rear hub ebike:

https://a.co/d/0b0Z9OJd

No idea if you could get an adapter to fit it on a mid-drive, though. Also annoying it isn't narrow-wide tooth sizing to help retain the chain.

 

[OutbackIdaho]

Looks like I would need some sort of Spider Adapter that allows one to add a 50T outer chainring to the adapter. Interesting concept. Now of one could find a 44T chainring to fit this adapter, a person could carry the spare in case their terrain changed.

For instance, Trail of the Coeur d'Alenes, while mostly flat or with a slight grade, there is an uphill grade past the Chatcolet Bridge up a few miles that goes up to 5.4% grade. With a smaller chainring to swap over to, that could keep the TSDZ16 from overheating. Not saying that this would happen a lot, we all run into hiller areas that a 50T+ could be an issue.

The grade coming down from Plummer to the Chatcolet Bridge was what worried me in the 5%ish area coming on drum brakes. I'm not a fan of drum brakes. The conversion kit is roughly $1,000 AU to obtain from Trisled, and WhizWheels has yet to give me a more localized proce. Me, rather have Avid BB7's onboard. Could swap them over from the Rover, but that whole conversion is another topic, and I think I've gone astray on the original topic here too...

 

[OutbackIdaho]

In any case, I got past the 10 MPH issue by adding a larger chainring.

While the online AI's suggest 44T on recumbent trikes, that suggestion is flawed and not correct. Maybe on diamond frame bikes, not on those of us who are laid back. 44T is nice to pedal with, but speed is not on your side. 46T I can get better speed using, although you have to be quite active in pedaling. When a person gets tired though, and plods along on the pedals, speed is going to drop.

Was suggested a 50T to 52T chainring would allow a more comfortable pedaling experience on the flats or rolling roads. Should the suggestions be true, a 50T chainring could allow one to pedal at a more comfortable pace on rolling or flat roads without spinning out the RPMs on the motor sensor. Taking on hills could be a challenge as the motor would have to work harder, and I have no inclination in abusing the motor (want it to last many years).

If I am going to spend a lot on a spider adapter I would like it crafted of superior materials and would also like a color option instead of basic black. Trike's trim is yellow, although purple or orange would let it stand out.

 

[Apartunis]

While the online AI's suggest 44T on recumbent trikes, that suggestion is flawed and not correct. Maybe on diamond frame bikes, not on those of us who are laid back. 44T is nice to pedal with, but speed is not on your side. 46T I can get better speed using, although you have to be quite active in pedaling. When a person gets tired though, and plods along on the pedals, speed is going to drop.

Small wheels have a much more pronounced effect than lounging body position. In terms of road speed per pedal rpm: 44t on a 26" drive wheel is like 39½t on 29", 48t on 24", or 57t on 20". 72t on 16".

Recumbent and folding bikes that use child sized wheels have special gearing challenges as a result.

 

[PaPaSteve]

The NuVinci hub has less overall gear range (380%) then a typical derailleur system (often 400% or more).
The Rohloff hub has a 500% gear range.
Gear range loss will limit the top speed.
One revolution of a 20" wheel will move the trike roughly 63" down the road. (5 feet)
One revolution of a 26" wheel will move the trike roughly 82" down the road. (7 feet)
Small wheels need transmissions with larger gear ranges.
The small cog on the NuVinci is compatible with Shimano 9 spline cogs so you may be able to get a simple, inexpensive ratio change with a smaller cog. It won't be much change.

 

[OutbackIdaho]

When TSDZ16 meets chipped gravel, avoid it like the plague! Don't go past Mode 3, and should things not work correctly stop and perform a Factory Reset and reset everything from scratch. Gets highly annoying! The programmers for these motors need to do some work here, this is not working well.

Due to language I used, set age restriction to 18+.

 

[OutbackIdaho]

Vendor wanted me to disconnect anything that could cut the motor off. So disconnected both brake sensors and the shift sensor before heading out this morning.

Started off... had no assist anywhere, no matter what mode I was in. Did a factory reset within the first 5 minutes. Tried again, thought I felt a brief moment of assist, but was gone. Was a bit miffed at this point thinking I had a dead motor.

Decided to record a few videos of this new issue. None picked up the motor's whine. Did another factory reset under a mile away. Waited a bit, then started off. No assist then either, no matter what I tried. -- Only the throttle worked. Motor was dead as far as I could tell.

Rode a bit plodding along at 7.7 MPH (46T chainring). Remembered the vendor asking me if the display turned off when the assist power surged, and told him the display never turned off and the speed was the same as the Garmin's. And no error code was thrown. Speed today was right on, only thing different was no shift sensor connected and both brake sensors were also disconnected.
Since I had no 'proof' to show the vendor that the display/speedometer were functioning, decided to take a photo with the iPhone. Went over a couple of bumps and some gravel due to traffic. Was lining up the two speedometers in the frame ... and out of the blue the assist kicked in! Seriously?!?
At this point I had to make a decision, to ride and possible have a very long unassisted ride home, or stay locally. Decided to chance it and find this chipped gravel to see if things went awry again.

Got out to the roads that had chipped gravel on them last weekend... and these roads were covered in fresh asphalt. Sort of ruined the testing idea with the disconnected peripherals. So went to the usual area and found the ranch was covered with people and cars. Took a while before I could even cross the highway cause there was so much traffic. And man o' man, there was a HUGE Spartan Challenge race going on today & tomorrow. Got some static and 360° photos to go through.

Did ride 28.56 miles without any motor issues. However the battery sure drained faster than normal. Not sure if that was a fluke, or if something is up somewhere.

And what would cause no power assist at all for 1.7 miles?!? Then suddenly kicked back in and functioned normally??? Want some reliability out of this TSDZ16. Never know what is going to happen next.

And I have to figure out why the chain pops. That shift sensor was quite a charm. Will have to check the rear derailleur tomorrow.

 

[offGridDownUnder]

and out of the blue the assist kicked in! Seriously?!?

A.I.

It's messing with you. Damned machines...

 

[OutbackIdaho]

Dusted off my first GoPro today to take rearview footage. It actually caught me trying to take a photo of the displays when the motor kicked in, a bit half ways into the video.

 

[OutbackIdaho]

Here are three videos pieced together to show the start of the day, and when assist kicked in. Did not have any further issues that were noticeable. However, the motor sounds lighter/tinnier, or is it just me?