TSDZ16 with Nuvinci n380 - Tops out at 10 MPH

[OutbackIdaho]

Greetings from Idaho

Had a Bafang M625 for 5 years but batteries became extinct. Decided I had enough of ghost pedaling. Swapped the Greenspeed Magnum XL over to a TSDZ16 motor. Have been working on this all through my staycation to not much avail. Cannot get past 10 MPH no matter the speed setting on a EKD01 display.
Note: Am quite aware of the torque differences on the Nuvinci (60 nm) and TSDZ16 (160 nm).
Came here because this forum is quite famous, and a lot of experienced individuals reside here.


Bought my TSDZ16 from Johnny Nerd Out along with two 48V 17.5Ah batteries. Have no issues getting to 10 MPH, and the speed was increased to 35 MPH, although had a higher setting with no change. I don't plan on going over 28 MPH if I can help it, cant wheels are scary at that speed.

What I have tried or done"

• It's not in Street Mode, is currently at its maximum near maximum speed of 35 MPH.
• Have it set to 20" wheel size, even tried 21" as I have 20 x 2.15 Schwalbe Pick-Up Cargo E-bike tires. 1640 circumference.
• Have tried moving the speed sensor from 3/4" to up close and personal, no change. Have a Bosch magnet to install that just came in.
• Mode 5 gives an easier pedal, yet no speed increase past 10 MPH. Feels like the display/motor is not unlocking, and I'm ghost pedaling at 10 MPH...
• Does not matter what mode I am in, there is no sustain in power nor any speed increase. When my personal speed lowers the power kicks back in at 5 MPH.
• Have spun the snot out of the pedals and no change. Think I do 50 to 60 RPM on my own. Plodding along or fast pedaling makes zero difference to output.
• Throttle really gets with the program and it zooms up with maybe half a turn of the chainring. Boom! Stops at 16 MPH. Again, feels like something is not unlocked.
• Have satisfactory get up and go from pedaling anyhow as was used to that on the M625.
• Have tried various gear ratios on the n380. The hub is still functioning.
• Put on the 42T chainring when I was assembling the motor. Do have a stock 44T chainring, but the 42T is more sleek.
• Speed sensor is on the back wheel. Used a nylon bracket with a speed sensor mount to offer better angles to spoke/magnet.
• EKD01 has SW: EKD01_TB_N22 & HW: B02NU_V1.01
• Anderson connectors... plan on swapping to XT60's once I can get this thing to get to 16 MPH on its own. (Warranty thing)
• Factory Reset on EKD01 did no good, tried a few times in fact.
• When I had the Bluetooth app connected, it did not show any updates. Bluetooth is disabled when I am riding, don't trust it. Heard rumors it can set the motor to Firmware settings, overriding the display.
  

    Can get between 6 to 10 MPH, then no increase no matter what mode I select. I'm perplexed. Bench mode I can hand pedal it to 10 MPH with effort, and bench test works. Actual road test however...

YouTube bench test - Appologize for the breathing, long days - not enough sleep trying to figure this thing out.

YouTube road test, Garmin recorded the on screen displays, camera recorded the EDK01 display & cadence of my plodding. Was tired. Am tired.

Thus I am totally perlexed as how to proceed. Should I install the OEM rear wheel with cogs for a test? About the only thing I can come up with.

 

[offGridDownUnder]

I have almost none of your equipment.
16mph is about 25km/hr. Do you have reason to expect the motor not to be locked to EU/AU standard?
What happens when you set the wheel diameter to 10" or 12"?

 

[OutbackIdaho]

Street Speed: It has been unlocked in the hidden menu area already.
Wheel Diameter on other settings: Incorrect speed readings, no change in actual speed higher or lower. Motor still cuts out. Have a Garmin Explorer to use for speed, and while the display was incorrect, then Garmin showed the motor cut out at 10 MPH.

Not sure if the cut off is in the display or the motor. From what Google AI reads, 15 KM is 10 MPH. Something isn't getting reset, or there is another issue.

What is the maximum load the TSDZ16 can handle?

N380 started knocking on throttle today, so putting the original wheel back on and going back to a derailleur and cogs. *sigh*

 

[offGridDownUnder]

putting the original wheel back on and going back to a derailleur and cogs

Well, you'll find out if the problem persists.

 

[Apartunis]

Are you certain your NuVinci is shifting? If it is stuck in a low ratio then it may impose a mechanical limit on how fast the trike can move under motor power.

 

[OutbackIdaho]

After parts, shift sensor, rear derailleur cable kit, 8 speed twist shift, and other parts arrived I swapped the NuVinci n380 out. Put in the original 9 speed cassette wheel in. Was my first rear derailleur installation from nothing to work from other than a couple of videos and a lot of trail and error. Getting into 9th gear was a bear, yet I finally got the derailleur to cooperate after rerouting the cable to go over the boom instead of underneath. Put the shift sensor on top of the boom too.

Once everything was working was able to get in the 14 MPH range on mode 3. Mode 5 was a bit much and I was almost back to ghost pedaling. Nice forceful street crossing ability.

Got shots of 16 MPH pedaling, was really working that out. Then did a throttle test which I was exceeding 27 MPH and it was slowly climbing. Said that was enough, and backed off.

It was the n380 that was holding me back afterall.

Note: Have a 9 speed cassette yet also have 20 x 2.15 tire. 1st gear is not physically attainable, thus why I went with an 8 speed shifter.

 

[Papa]

Note: Have a 9 speed cassette yet also have 20 x 2.15 tire. 1st gear is not physically attainable, thus why I went with an 8 speed shifter.

You should be pairing 8spd shifters w/8spd cassettes - Likewise, 9spd shifters w/9spd cassettes only. Cassette sprocket spacing is different between 8 and 9spd.

 

[OutbackIdaho]

Ahh! Thank you.

At the time I could not locate any 9 speed twist shifters on Amazon. Only 3, 4, 6, 7, 8.

Used Google AI's deep search function and found there is one option, an SRAM (SLS804) Centera 9-Speed Twist Rear Shifter. One I found the model number, SLS804, the were offers from more places. Went through Performance Bicycle as Amazon's only option is a week and a half away from California.

With the conglomerence of items on the right handle there is no physical place to put a trigger shifter. Something already is occupying the space, or would cause issues to even try to install something else there.

For now I have a shifter. And on that, want to go for a ride before it rains again.

 

[lnanek]

The Centera is really badly made. Has a screw that goes directly into the handlebar instead of tightening a p-clip. I'd take an old used Rocket twist shifter off eBay any day. Any of the named SRAM twist shifters have the Shimano pull ratio needed. The numbered ones used a different pull ratio.

 

[OutbackIdaho]

Are there any recommended rear IGH that would work well with the TSDZ16?
Like the 3X3 Nine, but the price is a bit more than I want to spend. Which also means a Rohloff is untouchable.

This 64 y/o kid misses the NuVinci n380, yet went with a Torque motor for better exercise and hopefully will lose more weight than with the previous cadence motor.

Had an M625 that came at a time while recovering from a near deadly virus that did a number on my organic engine. It gave me new hope, and slowly got me in better shape over the next 8 months. Got several hundred, maybe even a thousand wonderful miles in places since. Rode up in Kellogg, Idaho TOT rides, and the upper Weiser River Trail (MUP). And a few other surfaced trail systems.
Yet I then too missed the torque motor of the TSDZ2 I originally had and it died after 110 miles. Tongsheng did not have a 1,000 watt motor then.

So I swapped over to this TSDZ16 to gain better health and improve my leg muscles. With a maintenance dose of Wegovy I was losing a few extra pounds using the cadence motor, and am really hoping the torque motor will provide better results, and I prefer the bionic legs experience over ghost pedaling.

Would like to eventually get a decent rear IGH. Not looking for excessive speed, as 20 MPH is plenty fast. Been to 31 MPH and am not a fan of going over 28 MPH on the cant wheels. I prefer to hang around 16 MPH if I have any say in it, maybe 8 to 14 on a MUP trail.

Have any recommendations?

 

[OutbackIdaho]

Have 5 modes, yet the only difference I can feel is the assist modes get peppier to 12 MPH. With a lot of effort, by pulling back on the pedals as well as mashing I can get up to 14 MPH, but that's a serious workout. Been to 16 MPH a few times on a slight incline.

Can feel assist going up hills, and inclines. Though most of the time I downshift on most of these rural roads. 5% to 8% is common.

On the flats I get to 12 1/2 MPH to 13 MPH and then I am spinning out. Does not make any sense at all to me. Been using Mode 3 as it feels about right from stop to go to cross roads, or when using the throttle.

Throttle wise it gets to 27 MPH before it cuts out. Weird that. The setting shows it is not on limited speed, yet it sure feels like it at times.

Pedaling seems okay at sub-light speed, 6 to 10 MPH. When pedaling faster, can feel the slight assist kick off at 12 1/3 to 13 MPH, and then the pedals are spinning and I have nothing to pedal against, no resistance. I tried spinning faster, but can only do that to a point and speed only decreases. Once I hit 12 MPH can feel a slight boost-up again, which is short lived.

Have thrown the motor to Mode 5 where I was told uprights are flying at 25 MPH and that their battery does not last as long. I did a 33.5 mile trip last Sunday and I did not even use up one of the two 17.5Ah 48V batteries. Throttle was where I saw the drain in battery, but I did not buy a torque assist motor to use throttle.

Here's the Garmin weblink of that ride: Fruitland Road Cycling

I just do NOT understand why this motor cannot reach at least 18 MPH. Speed sensor is working, have a Bosch magnet on there to for its superior spoke mount design.

Am going to install the 44T chainring that came with the kit, and bought a 46T chainring from AliExpress as a medium point to see where to go next. Was considering going to an Alfine hub, as I miss the NuVinci n380 hub that I had - has too much torque for that hub.

Looking for some leads, what to try next, hoping for something I missed.

So I broke the 10 MPH thing, but still stuck in the gutter so to speak, as I'm now stuck at 13 MPH.
Is it the chainring, the motor just not meshing together to give me something to pedal against, or a bad motor?

Trying to get this through Johnny Nerdout, where I bought the motor kit from. Making sure I did not miss something that could be the problem to this slow pedaling thing.

The 9 speed shifter did come in and is installed. Seems to have an issue coming down from 1st to 2nd, as it drops to third, but I can click it back up. Not overly crazy about this new SRAM shifter, takes effort to go to the lower (wider) gears. 8th gear feels better than 9th.
Move the fender over and was able to reach 1st gear, not that I use it much, Did on a couple of hills last Sunday.

/sigh

 

[offGridDownUnder]

Would like to eventually get a decent rear IGH

The Shimano hubs are well thought of, with some caveats. I had an Alfine 8 on a previous bicycle.

Note that the 8 speed Shimano has a 1:1 thru path (in 5th, I think?), so no gear loss. The Alfine 11 has no straight thru selection, so there will always be some gear loss.

Nexus: less expensive
Alfine: more costly, higher grade

Read up on the accepted torque inputs, etc. before choosing.

Um. Your motor has 160Nm torque? Why?

If your motor uses the gears, why would you need that?