tsdz2 36v actual power ?

[pxl666]

hey
does anyone know if tsdz2 48v will have same mechanical power when powered with 36v ? if there will be more current or if it will have less torque ?

 

[Elinx]

....
does anyone know if tsdz2 48v will have same mechanical power when powered with 36v ? if there will be more current or if it will have less torque ?

There are two Tsdz2 versions 36V 4000rpm and 48V 4000rpm. The difference is 48V has more (but thinner?) windings.
A 36V battery delivers power between 30-42V and a 48V battery between 39-54V
So with stock firmware you can use the 36V batterie between 39-42V, which is just a part of the complete charge.
With 36V battery a 48V motor runs max.3000rpm, which means your cadence is also about max. 60

If you flash OSF it is possible to use full 36V charge and fieldweakening, but at the cost of more current and more heat.
I can't judge about the torque.

 

[pxl666]

....
does anyone know if tsdz2 48v will have same mechanical power when powered with 36v ? if there will be more current or if it will have less torque ?

There are two Tsdz2 versions 36V 4000rpm and 48V 4000rpm. The difference is 48V has more, but thinner windings.
A 36V battery delivers power between 30-42V and a 48V battery between 39-54V
So with stock firmware you can use the 36V batterie between 39-42V, which is just a part of the complete charge.
With 36V battery a 48V motor runs max.3000rpm, which means your cadence is also about max. 60

If you flash OSF it is possible to use full 36V charge and fieldweakening, but at the cost of more current and more heat.
I can't judge about the torque.

thanks - do you think that 36v version of tsdz2 will have same torque as 48v version ? at full charge of course

 

[Elinx]

...... do you think that 36v version of tsdz2 will have same torque as 48v version ? at full charge of course

I never have tried, so I really don't know.
But by redenation I think for torque it makes no difference, but you will feel max. power earlier.

 

[pxl666]

The question is if 36v version running 10s will have same mechanical power as 48v version at 13s . speed is not the priority but smaller battery and not necessary 13s4p or 3p ...

 

[Elinx]

...36v version running 10s will have same mechanical power as 48v version at 13s . ....

No, the 48V use more elektrical power with the same current.
More electrical power gives more mechanical power.

 

[stratohunter]

...36v version running 10s will have same mechanical power as 48v version at 13s . ....

No, the 48V use more elektrical power with the same current.
More electrical power gives more mechanical power.

With the same current the 36V version definitely outputs less power than the 48V version. But as the 36V motor has thicker wires and fewer turns, there is fewer resistance. So won't the 36V motor be able to handle a higher current before overheating?

 

[Elinx]

.....
With the same current the 36V version definitely outputs less power than the 48V version. ..... won't the 36V motor be able to handle a higher current before overheating?

I read back and I see what your mean.
I don't know why I mentioned a difference with thickness (I have edit my post now)
I assume I was thinking about the needed space for these windings.

It is just a difference with windings 48V has more.
That means a 36V has lesser windings and a lower resistance and will heated up faster with same current.
That is why you must run with lesser current on 36V motor

But.... you can get more power if you run a 36V motor on 48V batterie.
Higher max rpm. higher cadence, higher Voltage, same (lesser) current, same heat, higher power

 

[pxl666]

I was thinking if I can get same assist from 36v motor as I have from 48v motor . mostly because of small room in frame that makes me wonder if 10s4p would be better than 13s3p .

is there only benefit from buying 36v motor and feeding 48v into it ? wouldn't it heat more?

 

[Elinx]

I was thinking if I can get same assist from 36v motor as I have from 48v motor . mostly because of small room in frame that makes me wonder if 10s4p would be better than 13s3p .

is there only benefit from buying 36v motor and feeding 48v into it ? wouldn't it heat more?

Between 13p3p and 10s4p the difference is just one cell (39 vs 40), so about 11Wh difference on total of about 430Wh

For benefits, read my post before.
Because the current is most responsable for heat. More power, same heat, but you need OSF to limit the power and current.
Voltage is responsable for movement (rpm) Current is responsable for heat.
More Voltage, more rpm, meaning faster mechanical wear.
(very) simple redenation:

36V motor 10A-36V battery = 360W for movement and heat under normal conditions
36V motor 7,5A -48V battery = 360W for movement and heat, but with lower current less heat, more power for movement.
36V motor 10A-48V battery = 480W for movement and heat,with the same current, same heat, meaning 120W extra for movement.
But if you use that extra power, your battery will discharge faster too and 48V is 11Wh less than 36V battery.

So it is all about choices.

 

[stratohunter]

I read back and I see what your mean.
I don't know why I mentioned a difference with thickness (I have edit my post now)
I assume I was thinking about the needed space for these windings.

It is just a difference with windings 48V has more.
That means a 36V has lesser windings and a lower resistance and will heated up faster with same current.
That is why you must run with lesser current on 36V motor

But.... you can get more power if you run a 36V motor on 48V batterie.
Higher max rpm. higher cadence, higher Voltage, same (lesser) current, same heat, higher power

The 36V motor does have thicker wires. I had physically inspected the two versions of motors I own and can confirm the wires in the 36V windings have a larger diameter than those in the 48V windings. Also I had been running both motors under 52V battery at 16A and did not find the 36V motor producing more heat than the 48V motor. Looks like the website you attached was assuming the same wire diameter in the 36V and 48V windings when estimating the resistance for the 36V winding, which was not the case.

So I'd say the 36V motor can handle at least comparable current as the 48V motor. Under same voltage they will handle similar power.

Also here is a test I found for the 36V motor: https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=114866
An efficiency of 0.8 at 1kw looks decent for such a small motor.