Ultralightweight 50kW drag racing motorcycle project

[Doctorbass]

Yes another project i want to make for this summer!

I have in my ched the complete frame and wheels of a Zero X 2009. These are very light. I kept it just i case i woudl have a project with it 8)
Also i plan buying one of these great new IPM motor from Zero. These remain very cold and are the ameliorated version of the 2015 and previous 75-7 motor
I also have a Sevcon size 6 and as well my 70kW 700Wh drag racing battery.

If i put all that together and few dozen hours this could result in a very interesting performance drag race motorcycle! :wink:

-battery is 22s 9Ah and 13 pounds + 4 pounds additional 6s 9Ah
-Motor is 38 pounds
-controller is 10 pounds
the motorcycle frame and wheels are about 65 pounds ( estimated)

Total weight should be about 130 pounds... that's just about 275 pounds less than the Zero SR is but with the same 50kW power!!

Well from now everything seem to be very nice and impressive however matching everything together and get the amx power at the wheel will require some work as well

But at least the setup seem interesting...

I will extend the rear swing arm to keep the front wheel on the ground.

what is noce with that frame is that it is made with bicycle parts... The suspension, the wheels, the brake etc... well I might just need to replace the front brake...

Doc

 

[liveforphysics]

Nice! Should be a rocket Doc!!

 

[Ohbse]

Sounds cool Doc! This thread definitely needs some pics of the Zero frame. This would be pretty comparable to later iterations of Deathbike? With potentially incrementally better motor and a bit lighter?

If you want to get real crazy could you re-terminate the motor with split phases and drive it with two Sevcon?

I'm hoping to go drag racing with my Madass project once complete, but I think you're going to have me beat from the beginning

 

[Doctorbass]

Nice! Should be a rocket Doc!!

thanks Luke..

I really wish that project will go on!

In fact this is one of my dream, I've always been interested in drag racing with EV since i discovered how nice they perform!

I'm impatient to receive that IPM motor and play with it!

 

[Doctorbass]

Sounds cool Doc! This thread definitely needs some pics of the Zero frame. This would be pretty comparable to later iterations of Deathbike? With potentially incrementally better motor and a bit lighter?

If you want to get real crazy could you re-terminate the motor with split phases and drive it with two Sevcon?

I'm hoping to go drag racing with my Madass project once complete, but I think you're going to have me beat from the beginning

Yeah, i am not going to try beating the deathbike my goal is to impress regulary drag racing ICE guys and put some decent numbers on the NEDRA. But as well if i can beat the deathbike i will be very happy but it shold be really difficult!

Yes i know.. dual size 6 would be crazy! but also $$$$$$

The IPM 75-7R is about 1900USD+ shipping,

The size 6 are 1200usd+shipping

The Liposeduction 70kW 700Wh 9Ah ultra high C power battery i have is 1200$

and as usual... my sponsor is my pocket!.. well... maybe except for one size 6.. :wink:

Doc

 

[Ohbse]

The IPM 75-7R is about 1900USD+ shipping,

The size 6 are 1200usd+shipping

The Liposeduction 70kW 700Wh 9Ah ultra high C power battery i have is 1200$

and as usual... my sponsor is my pocket!.. well... maybe except for one size 6.. :wink:

Doc

Are the motors etc available to the general public or do you have a 'special' relationship? Motor costs seems entirely reasonable, as does the controller.. though I understand that the controller programming is quite involved. Is it possible to get the controller pre-configured for the Zero IPM motor?

My goals are perhaps not so lofty but then again neither is my budget... Hubmonster is around $600usd, dual Sabvoton controllers $700, battery probably around $1500 of nanotech (I need a big real world range unlike your dedicated bike )

I'm hopeful to run around 13.2-13.5 in the 1/4 mile, though to the 1/8th mile should be surprisingly quick for a '50cc'

Have you run any simulations or educated guesses as to prospective ET's? If you're willing to extend the length of the bike that can have pretty dramatic impact on 60' times (and thus ET). In my case I need to retain some agility for battling traffic from hell.

 

[motomoto]

I am interested in the Zero motor controller deal. Last I heard the setup was $12k if they would even sell it to you.

 

[John in CR]

What happened with the 2wd? I was hoping for a decent Hubmotored time to beat. Until 200V controllers become a reality, I have to leave the chain/belt drives to you and Luke. Long and sleek sounds like a winner. Can't wait to see it.

 

[gogo]

As long as you're modifying the swingarm, why not mount the motor to it?

 

[Doctorbass]

The IPM 75-7R is about 1900USD+ shipping,

The size 6 are 1200usd+shipping

The Liposeduction 70kW 700Wh 9Ah ultra high C power battery i have is 1200$

and as usual... my sponsor is my pocket!.. well... maybe except for one size 6.. :wink:

Doc

Are the motors etc available to the general public or do you have a 'special' relationship? Motor costs seems entirely reasonable, as does the controller.. though I understand that the controller programming is quite involved. Is it possible to get the controller pre-configured for the Zero IPM motor?

My goals are perhaps not so lofty but then again neither is my budget... Hubmonster is around $600usd, dual Sabvoton controllers $700, battery probably around $1500 of nanotech (I need a big real world range unlike your dedicated bike )

I'm hopeful to run around 13.2-13.5 in the 1/4 mile, though to the 1/8th mile should be surprisingly quick for a '50cc'

Have you run any simulations or educated guesses as to prospective ET's? If you're willing to extend the length of the bike that can have pretty dramatic impact on 60' times (and thus ET). In my case I need to retain some agility for battling traffic from hell.

The 75-7 motor can be bought i think. The IPm are difficult to have as these are highly requested for teh 2016 production.

My Zero 2012 SR already does in the 14sec ET' with 40kW and 380pounds bike weight I would expect the 12-13sec for sure.

My 2012 SR already does in the 7 sec on the 1/8 mile.

I use online simulator that require total weight, torque and power.

 

[Doctorbass]

What happened with the 2wd? I was hoping for a decent Hubmotored time to beat. Until 200V controllers become a reality, I have to leave the chain/belt drives to you and Luke. Long and sleek sounds like a winner. Can't wait to see it.

The 2WD bike is also in the work!

I will reduce weight (remove the 2kWh battery and replace by a 700Wh 100C liposeduction with the cells from John Metric)
I will unlock the two adaptto to 180A batt current and re tune everything.
Also might replace the rear MXUS by a QS205... but i'm not sur ethat it will result in a performance gain for drag racing...

Doc

 

[CortezDTV]

Looks epic!! Smoking me to my Electricross project!!!!
Good shit ill be watching thing!!!

That frame is going to be very sorry!

 

[macribs]

Man doc you are crazy in the best possible way. Can't wait to see videos of this on the drag strip.
Surely some loud mouthed leather wearing ICE guys are gonna get schooled.
Cool that you didn't abandon the 2wd project!


Look forward to see this project take shape. Keep pushing the boundaries.

 

[Doctorbass]

I have ordered the new 75-7R IPM motor from Zero witch is a 6 turn and also ordered the 75-7 with 4 turn witch is a special version that have been made to patch the old Me0913 motor on the 2012 that had problem. I had confirmatin that this motor would give awsome performance with TWO size 6 controller ( 100kW).. but as well 2 size 6 are $$$$$$$$$$

Once i get the motor I will begin the project oficially.

I the best chance i might go for the 4 turn and dual size 6... however the weak components will become the 13 pounds battery of 70kW MAX i have... :lol:

I will also have to figure out how long i will have to extend the rear swing arm to keep the front Wheel on the ground..

Doc

 

[gogo]

I will also have to figure out how long i will have to extend the rear swing arm to keep the front Wheel on the ground..

It's quite terrifying to have your machine on the verge of flipping over. The nice thing about wheelie bars used with suspended swing arm is you can just hack the throttle and get a smooth as silk launch, letting the spinning tire and contact patch ease any system extremes.

It sure would be fun to test whether wheelie bars or extended swingarm gets better results.

 

[macribs]

The first thing that enters my mind is that a wheelie bar will slow you down when engaged, where as a longer swing arm will not.
The longer swing arm will put the weight forward and making flipping that much harder.
I guess those motorcycle drag racers will know a whole lot about the pro and cons of wheelie bars, when they are needed and for what application they are a better match then just longer swing arm. Talk to the experts, the one with hundreds of races in their belts.

 

[ecycler]

however matching everything together and get the amx power at the wheel will require some work as well
But at least the setup seem interesting...
I will extend the rear swing arm to keep the front wheel on the ground.

Badass, Doc. What kind of front forks are you going to use? Not sure if you have played with them in the past or seen other drag bikers do it, but I am able to pick up a tenth or two in my 60' times on my ICE bikes using straps to compress the front suspension. Just a thought since that thing is really going to want to loop on you!

 

[gogo]

The first thing that enters my mind is that a wheelie bar will slow you down when engaged, where as a longer swing arm will not.
The longer swing arm will put the weight forward and making flipping that much harder.
I guess those motorcycle drag racers will know a whole lot about the pro and cons of wheelie bars, when they are needed and for what application they are a better match then just longer swing arm. Talk to the experts, the one with hundreds of races in their belts.

Wheelie bars guarantee you'll never flip. Even long swingarms aren't a guarantee:
[youtube]kcYFi2bdZEk[/youtube]


What I observed about wheelie bars was that everybody used struts instead of retaining their suspension, and that caused what I call bounce-initiated loss of traction. They lost the even pressure exerted by the suspension system and the tire would bounce off the pavement and spin instead of hooking up. So, I made a set of wheelie bars using 10 ft. electrical conduit and upper and lower tension elements from steel wire, with the upper set crossed in an X for the sideways tension. They were long and light, never took much weight off the rear wheel, and allowed me to retain my suspension. I went from terror-inducing near flips to consistent silky smooth launches.

Being able to hack the throttle wide open and letting the tire coefficient of friction smoothly claw at the pavement without worrying about flipping over is priceless.

 

[Arlo1]

Yes another project i want to make for this summer!

I have in my ched the complete frame and wheels of a Zero X 2009. These are very light. I kept it just i case i woudl have a project with it 8)
Also i plan buying one of these great new IPM motor from Zero. These remain very cold and are the ameliorated version of the 2015 and previous 75-7 motor
I also have a Sevcon size 6 and as well my 70kW 700Wh drag racing battery.

If i put all that together and few dozen hours this could result in a very interesting performance drag race motorcycle! :wink:

-battery is 22s 9Ah and 13 pounds + 4 pounds additional 6s 9Ah
-Motor is 38 pounds
-controller is 10 pounds
the motorcycle frame and wheels are about 65 pounds ( estimated)

Total weight should be about 130 pounds... that's just about 275 pounds less than the Zero SR is but with the same 50kW power!!

Well from now everything seem to be very nice and impressive however matching everything together and get the amx power at the wheel will require some work as well

But at least the setup seem interesting...

I will extend the rear swing arm to keep the front wheel on the ground.

what is noce with that frame is that it is made with bicycle parts... The suspension, the wheels, the brake etc... well I might just need to replace the front brake...

Doc

We will have to race!

 

[Hillhater]

I will also have to figure out how long i will have to extend the rear swing arm to keep the front Wheel on the ground..

It sure would be fun to test whether wheelie bars or extended swingarm gets better results.

Isnt that like "reinventing the wheel" again.?
There is a reason most top performing drag bikes use wheelie bars !
You must have many other issues to focus on without spending time experimenting with different swing arm lengths.

 

[liveforphysics]

I have ordered the new 75-7R IPM motor from Zero witch is a 6 turn and also ordered the 75-7 with 4 turn witch is a special version that have been made to patch the old Me0913 motor on the 2012 that had problem. I had confirmatin that this motor would give awsome performance with TWO size 6 controller ( 100kW).. but as well 2 size 6 are $$$$$$$$$$

That's the hot ticket for big HP Doc, it should serve you well. This bike should be silly quick.

 

[Samd]

Nice project Doc! I'm jealous. I've got a me1114 and a Sevcon 48v450a gen4 in an Aprilia RS125 frame, but it won't be a touch on this!

 

[Doctorbass]

Yes another project i want to make for this summer!

I have in my ched the complete frame and wheels of a Zero X 2009. These are very light. I kept it just i case i woudl have a project with it 8)
Also i plan buying one of these great new IPM motor from Zero. These remain very cold and are the ameliorated version of the 2015 and previous 75-7 motor
I also have a Sevcon size 6 and as well my 70kW 700Wh drag racing battery.

If i put all that together and few dozen hours this could result in a very interesting performance drag race motorcycle! :wink:

-battery is 22s 9Ah and 13 pounds + 4 pounds additional 6s 9Ah
-Motor is 38 pounds
-controller is 10 pounds
the motorcycle frame and wheels are about 65 pounds ( estimated)

Total weight should be about 130 pounds... that's just about 275 pounds less than the Zero SR is but with the same 50kW power!!

Well from now everything seem to be very nice and impressive however matching everything together and get the amx power at the wheel will require some work as well

But at least the setup seem interesting...

I will extend the rear swing arm to keep the front wheel on the ground.

what is noce with that frame is that it is made with bicycle parts... The suspension, the wheels, the brake etc... well I might just need to replace the front brake...

Doc

We will have to race!

:wink: I hope so!.. or even simply share our 1/8 and 1/4 E.T

 

[oatnet]

Cool! I look forward to seeing how this turns out.

-JD

 

[Doctorbass]

I am interested in the Zero motor controller deal. Last I heard the setup was $12k if they would even sell it to you.

75-7 Motor is about 1600$
Size 6 controller is 1200$
programmer is about 900$... unless you get one used on ebay from the first V1.5 or v1.6 for about 300-400$
contactor is about 125$
Battery is up to you...

Or you can buy a used 2014 Zero S at about 8000-10000$ and kep the powertrain and battery ans sell the frame and upgrade to sizxe 6 controlelr for 1200$

Doc