Upgrade brakes and running shifter cable under Tongsheng mid drive motor

[99t4]

Also, I was wondering how these teeth look on my derailleur?

Those teeth don't matter as much. Main thing for those pulley wheels is they should spin freely (no binding), sit parallel and in plane to the gear cluster, and not wobble more than a few mm. A little bit of sideways motion play is often built in "to compensate for imprecise index adjustment."

Does anyone know from looking at the photos if my derailleur needs to be replaced?

From your photos I can't see any damage. How was it working before?

 

[scrolltonowhere]

Changing the chain didn't help and it was determined the cassette was damaged. Since there were a few factors at play before I switched the cassette I don't know if the derailleur was an issue. Once I get access to a crank extractor perhaps I'll just install the chain and try to ride it as a regular bike to see if it works.

 

[99t4]

OK, suggest you familiarize yourself with derailler setup so when you get your new parts installed you can establish a stable benchmark to aid in further troubleshooting if necessary.

Here is a good start; there are many tutorial videos also (Park Tools tutorials highly respected):
https://www.parktool.com/blog/repair-help/rear-derailleur-adjustment

 

[scrolltonowhere]

OK, suggest you familiarize yourself with derailler setup so when you get your new parts installed you can establish a stable benchmark to aid in further troubleshooting if necessary.

Here is a good start; there are many tutorial videos also (Park Tools tutorials highly respected):
https://www.parktool.com/blog/repair-help/rear-derailleur-adjustment

Thanks for that, I love Park Tools videos. So I'm slowly putting everything together. I stripped off my grip shifters in exchange for a thumb shifter. The shifter cable was routed below the bottom bracket and the motor wouldn't fit with it on so it had to go. Now I'm wondering where do people typically route the brake cables when you can't go underneath? Does it matter?

What do you think about getting something like this?

https://www.amazon.com/Xmomx-Derail...704103&sprefix=cable+guide+bike,aps,52&sr=8-7

Also, I'd like to get the bike looking clean so cable management so perhaps these would be good for that as well.

 

[scrolltonowhere]

After taking all of the cabling off my 90's Trek Multitrack I'm thinking that the housing should probably be replaced now and possibly the brakes. I have these cantilever style brakes and I think they may need to go. Does anyone have any good brake suggestions for an upgrade. They're sort of tricky to set the brake pads right because the screw is hidden behind the fork.



I'm assuming it's ok to run my shifter cable through the mid drive motor. Any reason why this wouldn't work?

 

[Chalo]

After taking all of the cabling off my 90's Trek Multitrack I'm thinking that the housing should probably be replaced now and possibly the brakes. I have these cantilever style brakes and I think they may need to go. Does anyone have any good brake suggestions for an upgrade. They're sort of tricky to set the brake pads right because the screw is hidden behind the fork.

Cantilever brakes like that can work really well, but they're a hassle to set up. Fixed length lollipop straddle cables like you have there make them easier to set up, but harder to adjust for optimum mechanical advantage (which is the main benefit of cantilever brakes).

Linear-pull brakes (for instance V-brakes) are super easy to set up, and they usually work better than cantilevers. They have a different cable pull ratio, so if you use them you'll need to get new "long pull" brake levers as well.

The shifter cable looks like it isn't in any kind of guide. That's a problem in that it will cause friction and imprecision, and it will gradually saw into whatever surface it's resting on. If you can fit a short length of cable housing through that bend around the BB, that would alleviate the problems.

 

[scrolltonowhere]

After taking all of the cabling off my 90's Trek Multitrack I'm thinking that the housing should probably be replaced now and possibly the brakes. I have these cantilever style brakes and I think they may need to go. Does anyone have any good brake suggestions for an upgrade. They're sort of tricky to set the brake pads right because the screw is hidden behind the fork.

Cantilever brakes like that can work really well, but they're a hassle to set up. Fixed length lollipop straddle cables like you have there make them easier to set up, but harder to adjust for optimum mechanical advantage (which is the main benefit of cantilever brakes).

Linear-pull brakes (for instance V-brakes) are super easy to set up, and they usually work better than cantilevers. They have a different cable pull ratio, so if you use them you'll need to get new "long pull" brake levers as well.

The shifter cable looks like it isn't in any kind of guide. That's a problem in that it will cause friction and imprecision, and it will gradually saw into whatever surface it's resting on. If you can fit a short length of cable housing through that bend around the BB, that would alleviate the problems.

If I got the linear-pull brakes, would the brake levers that the Tongsheng kit came with work? I already ripped off the previous levers because I replaced the thumb shifter and also because I thought the e-brakes would be safer.



I just ordered these guides for the shifter cable. Also, there was no housing on the downtube for my shifter cables, so I think I should get some for that purpose at least.

 

[Chalo]

Would you have a car with brakes that cut the throttle? Why are e-bikes the only machine that has this weird interlock? Are we assumed not to be able to resist pegging the throttle and grabbing the brakes at the same time?

I'm my experience, e-brake levers have too short a pull for V-brakes.

 

[Mclewis1]

First I think the cantilever brakes shown in the earlier post are not setup properly. Correctly setup with the right pads there should be enough space to have them oriented with the bolts accessible. Cleaned up, setup correctly and with good pads, they should continue to offer good solid braking.

V-brakes however would also be a nice simple upgrade to those older cantis, I'd first try them with the cheap e-bike levers and see how effective they are. It might be that all you'll need to do is keep the brakes reasonably well adjusted (assuming a nice well trued wheel). If you feel you need more pull/lever travel with this lever/V-brake combination I'd consider using the Problem Solvers Travel Agents (and maybe new brake cables depending how short you've already cut them). https://problemsolversbike.com/products/brakes

Oh almost forgot - I agree that with a quality setup e-brake cutouts really aren't necessary, particularly with lower powered configurations (not the guys running multiple kw motors). But I've also seen too many cheap throttles and poor firmware that can put some folks in a bit of jeopardy with run on conditions that seems to occur at the worst possible time. For most folks I think they're a useful bit of cheap insurance (think the belts and suspenders approach).

 

[scrolltonowhere]

I was out of town for a little and just got around to trying to finish up my ebike conversion project. So the exciting part is that I connected the battery to the controller and got the Tongsheng mid-drive motor working. I took it for a test drive around a local hilly cemetery and was quite pleased I didn't break a sweat going up that hill but still feel like I worked even on Turbo mode. I thought Turbo might be like riding a scooter but was wrong.

I got everything installed (changed brake and shifter housing, changed from twist shift to click shifter, v-brakes, new rear cog, shift levers. Since I wasn't able to route the shifter underneath the bottom bracket like it was before the conversion I did what I thought I could.



The derailleur wasn't indexed right when I first bought the bike - some skipping cogs, having difficulty getting into first gear (derailleur knocking up and down continuously until it finally gets bumped up). When I took the almost complete e-bike out on a test ride, there was a lot of chain rubbing on the cogs and just not indexing right. I tightened the shifter cable by pulling on it tight with a needle nose and some problems got ironed out but then new ones arose. I tightened the index barrel all the way at the handlebar and then now I'm getting the chain falling off the highest gear. I guess I need to dial in the high stopper again. Anyways, the derailleur is way more complicated to get right than I expected.

While braking my brake levers pull basically to the handlebar. I've never used v-brakes before so I'm not sure how my levers should feel - should it be fairly sensitive? I guess the question is do I need different levers than the stock Tongsheng ones? I did notice like almost everyone told me on this forum that the tongsheng brake cutoff seems pretty unnecessary.

I think I should cleanup my wires a bit!

Still need to figure out if my derailleur is broken or my understanding of derailleurs is broken :?

Thanks all for your input on this!

 

[Chalo]

I took it for a test drive around a local hilly cemetery and was quite pleased I didn't break a sweat going up that hill but still feel like I worked even on Turbo mode. I thought Turbo might be like riding a scooter but was wrong.

Did you shift into a low gear? Even a low powered mid drive will climb affirmatively if it's in an appropriate gear. It just won't go very fast.

I put my old BBS02 on my ex-wife's bike, but she rides it in the highest gear all the time. That's kind of missing the point (and hard on the equipment).

 

[99t4]

Seems like that rear derailleur cable it bound to cut thru that ziptie pretty quick?

Was the Park Tool derailleur adjustment tutorial I linked you earlier any help?

 

[99t4]

I put my old BBS02 on my ex-wife's bike, but she rides it in the highest gear all the time. That's kind of missing the point (and hard on the equipment).

LOL, add my daughter to that list.

 

[scrolltonowhere]

Seems like that rear derailleur cable it bound to cut thru that ziptie pretty quick?

Was the Park Tool derailleur adjustment tutorial I linked you earlier any help?

Thank you! That and other Park Tool tutorials are the best I've used. The videos are edited to make everything extremely clear. I managed to get the derailleur to shift pretty well in gears from 3-7. However it definitely rubs a little when I'm in 2 and seems to be delayed in getting up to 1. I think this may be the low screw setting issue. Maybe I'll go back to the park tool video.

EDIT: Now that I just rode it again, whether I'm using the electric assist or not, the chain makes some terrible noises when I'm riding in the smallest cog. I don't know what is causing this. The chain isn't rubbing on the neighboring cog when I'm testing it at home. The best I can describe is that it sounds like a terrible grinding noise.

Thanks Chalo for pointing out the potential issue with the motor if you overuse it with high gear. I was cruising around and having a lot of fun going around 25mph (at least that's what the display read) in the highest gear. I saw a video saying you should treat it like a vehicle - start in one of the lowest gears and work your way up when using the electric motor.

Is there anything else I should know or a forum thread I should review to help me understand how to not abuse the motor?

Thanks again. You've all been a great help!

 

[scrolltonowhere]

I'm getting inaccurate odometer reads. Yesterday it said I road 8.5 miles when it was around 2 miles. Also today the speedometer said 64 mph when I was just starting. The assist wasn't working when this was happening.

I'm not sure if the sensor is too close or what. Any ideas what could be going on? Can the black sensor that points to the magnet be pointing upwards as long as the arrow lines up to the magnet (as in not point at the magnet but upwards)? Also should the magnet be as close to the wheel as possible or does this not matter?

 

[scrolltonowhere]

Is there a specific reason for doing it that way? (which I would expect to require the brake pads to take a lot longer to bed in and brake fully?)

Some rims are made with concave brake tracks. Araya and Campagnolo both made multiple models like that.

Some brakes' pads swing more or less straight in, some sweep upwards, and some sweep downwards. A concave brake track offers easier setup for a range of brake types, with the ability to land the pad perpendicular to the rim.

My rear tire was untrued when I got it. I checked out a truing stand from the local tool library and tried my hand at it. I seemingly got the side to side much better than it was. Some of the spokes were really loose in there. I do worry now that I may have overtightened the spokes. Is this a thing? I do now, think the radial side of things is slightly untrue causing it to go up and down just a little bit but not significantly. Now when I brake, I get what I best can describe as a lerch, jerky back and forth movement. I installed kool stop pads in the back and the front have shimano.

Given this information are there any obvious places to look to correct this?

 

[Chalo]

Truing a wheel is a lot more complicated than tightening up loose spokes. The most expedient way to get a true, round, centered rim is to hand it to a professional who's known to be good at wheel repair. But you can do it yourself with patience and a system. It's not rocket science-- it's more like tuning a circular piano.

Check out some YouTube videos on wheel truing to get a sense for what you're up against. In your case it might be easier to loosen all the spokes first and then do them up until just the edge of the first thread is showing, so you're starting from a uniform state. Keep in mind that the goal is to have all the spokes as identical as possible, with only as much difference between them as necessary to force the wheel into a flat and round shape.

 

[BalorNG]

A multitrack bicycle? :lol:
Whomever designed that bike, had a peculiar sense of humor.

 

[scrolltonowhere]

A multitrack bicycle? :lol:
Whomever designed that bike, had a peculiar sense of humor.

I don't get it..Can you explain the joke?

 

[Chalo]

A multitrack bicycle? :lol:
Whomever designed that bike, had a peculiar sense of humor.

I don't get it..Can you explain the joke?

A bicycle is an example of a single track vehicle. A trike, a car, and a Segway would be examples of multi-track vehicles.

 

[BalorNG]

A multitrack bicycle? :lol:
Whomever designed that bike, had a peculiar sense of humor.

I don't get it..Can you explain the joke?

Yea, Chalo said that. Also, while it is possible to have a multi-track vehicle with singletrack dynamics (free-leaners have that up to a point of tilt limits), a "multitrack bicycle" with conventional inline wheels (no training wheels) is a complete oxymoron

Bit of engineer humor I think.

 

[scrolltonowhere]

I've been experiencing right knee pain while riding my Tongsheng converted Trek Multitrack bicycle. My partner said my knees look like they're bowed inward and looks awkward. In fact I've been feeling a lot of right knee pain since riding this bike. My other bike is a non e-bike Peugeot road bike and the distance between the seat tube and the crank arm is less than 50.8mm. The Tongsheng converted Trek distance between tube and crank arm is around 88.9mm. I think I may need to find a set of crank arms that will be compatible to this motor. I see some have replaced the originals with Bafang crank arms and others have used SHIMANO FC-E5010 STEPS Crank arm 165mm. This model doesn't seem to be as common as they may have once been. Does anyone have any experience with this problem and if so any recommendations?

Also, anyone have any experience with riding in the rain? Us it necessary to cover the battery and motor with plastic?

 

[Chalo]

Your derailleur pulleys look fine. If the derailleur cage hangs and swings parallel to the wheel, it should be okay. One other factor is the amount of loose side play in it, which results from wear at the pivots. Photos won't relay that information.

 

[99t4]

Also, anyone have any experience with riding in the rain? Us it necessary to cover the battery and motor with plastic?

Experienced rain rider here.

It depends on how the battery is made and encased. Some are potted and well sealed. Others are sloppily wrapped.

Are any exposed seams or openings facing upwards where they can funnel water into the battery case?

Most of my water-induced failures have been at various wire connectors, and the throttle.

Drip loops are helpful.

Full fenders help immensely.

 

[scrolltonowhere]

Also, anyone have any experience with riding in the rain? Us it necessary to cover the battery and motor with plastic?

Experienced rain rider here.

It depends on how the battery is made and encased. Some are potted and well sealed. Others are sloppily wrapped.

Are any exposed seams or openings facing upwards where they can funnel water into the battery case?

Most of my water-induced failures have been at various wire connectors, and the throttle.

Drip loops are helpful.

Full fenders help immensely.

I'll have to get some fenders then. I'm not using a throttle. My battery has a little flap at the top where I charge the battery. It also has a USB connector in this same area. I may need to just carry around a small ziplock to put over top in case of rain.

My wife is convinced she doesn't need the magnet sensors. Is this just for determining speed and to make the odometer function or is this something that is needed?