Valdenaire french postman bicycle TSDZ2B, TSDZ8 or BBS02B ?

[inkobl]

Hi everybody,

here is my new project bike I want to convert my postman bike to electrical with a :
- Tongsheng TSDZ8 48v 750w VLCD5
- Tongsheng TSDZ2B 48v 500w VLCD5
- Bafang BBS02B 48V 500W.



• Desired max speed on level ground 32km/h (off road).
• Desired max range at what cruising speed 45 km/h.
• Preferred bike wheel size : 26x1,95 (53 - 559) rear tire size (front is 24').
• Brake type of motor wheel : front V-Brake (maybe Magura HS 33 R), rear original drum brake
• Rider weight : 80kg, (extra material carrying up to 100kg).
• Terrain. Exp: mostly flat, some short hills under 10% grade.
• Budget : 800€ (bike included 100€).

Here is my actual configuration :

roue avant 24'	44 - 507	24x1,75
roue arrière 26'	53 - 559	26x1,95
Boîtier pédalier à clavette	68 mm	BSC/BSA 1.37" x 24 TPI (34,8 mm)	longueur de l'axe : 136 mm
Cassette	14 - 24 dents	5 vitesses	SIS MF-Z015

Here is my composant list, there's some double as I haven't choose anything at the moment. I'm just starting to look at it :

Vélo facteur > la poste > Valdenaire	150 €
TSDZ2B tongsheng 48v 500w VLCD5	235 €	TSDZ2B tongsheng 48V 500W 350W 15A tsdz2 electric bicycle mid motor with torque sensor throttle e-brake lever VLCD5 VLD6 XH18-LCD 850C
TSDZ8 tongsheng 48V 750W VLCD5	338 €	TSDZ8 tongsheng 48V 750W electric bicycle mid motor with torque sensor throttle e-brake lever VLCD5
Bafang BBS02B 48V 500W	300€	Bafang BBS02B 48V 500W Mid Drive Motor 8fun Bicycle Electric eBike Conversion Kit mid drive ebike kit new version
Battery Parrot 48V 20AH	287 €	Electric bicycle Battery Parrot 52V 48V 20Ah or 36V 25Ah Lithium eBike Battery the interior battery is SAMSUNG 21700 Li-ion battery
Battery HAILONG-PLUS 48V 17.5AH	287 €	Electric Bicycle Battery Hailong 21700 18650 Cells Pack 48V 36V 12.5Ah 19.2Ah Powerful ebike Lithium Battery for bafang tsdz2 tongsheng motor
Freins avant Magura HS 33 R	75 €	Magura Frein sur Jante HS 33 R
Antivol de cadre	30 €	Antivol de cadre vélo - Lecyclo.com
Cintre inox en forme de V 635 mm	26 €	Cintre Inox en avant en forme de V 635mm
Shimano Steps SG-C7000-5C	154€	Shimano Steps SG-C7000-5C, Noir | Bikeinn
Shimano Nexus E-Bike 5V Back-Pedal Rear	144€	Shimano Nexus E-Bike 5V Back-Pedal Rear, Noir | Bikeinn
Shimano Nexus Inter 8 argent 26 pouces roue arrière vélo ZAC2000	172 €	26 pouces roue arrière vélo ZAC2000 Shimano Nexus Inter8 argent
Frein de rouleau SHIMANO Nexus BR-C6000-R	50€	Frein de rouleau Nexus BR-C6000-R pour Taylor Wheels Roue arrière Inter 7/8
CHAINE ANTI-ROUILLE POUR MOYEU SHIMANO NEXUS 3/5/7/8V	9 €	Shimano CN-NX10 Chaîne vélo pour moyeu Nexus 3/5/7/8 vitesses

If you got some advise into building my electric bike, I will be glad to know it, here's some details about my needs :

- I think i really need the torque sensor as I don't really like the moped style.

- I'm not sure to change my 5 gears, sprocket set I will be glad t use the same in a first time also because there's no option to buy a 5 gear Nexus inter5 a bicycle hub with spoked rim (it's quite expensive in France). Other alternative is to buy a Nexus inter8 ZAC2000 for 172€ or keeping the original Shimano SIS with 5 gears sprocket.

- I don't expect to go very fast but I will be glad if I can climb some 10% roads, up to 100km, with a well-loaded bike up to 130kg. That's why I would like to buy a motor bigger than 250W, because I would like to be able to carry a lot of weight without difficulty.

- As I live in Marseille I'm also looking for solution against robbery, I plan to use a U-lock, with a frame lock and also adding an airtag, he will spend his night safe at home.

- Also I will be very happy if I manage to have an Open Source Firmware !

 

[adamtorba]

Get the TSDZ8. It's much more powerful than TSDZ2 and seems to be more robust.
If you consider moving to IGH the torque sensing motor makes more sense. Also it feels more natural than cadence.

 

[Az.]

All motors you chose look like an overkill. Why not hub motor?

Edit: I heard penalties for non compliance in France are eye watering. Is it true that fines go up to $35000? If yes, then buying motor rated 500W and above looks to me like asking for trouble for no reason.

 

[inkobl]

All motors you chose look like an overkill. Why not hub motor?

Edit: I heard penalties for non compliance in France are eye watering. Is it true that fines go up to $35000? If yes, then buying motor rated 500W and above looks to me like asking for trouble for no reason.

 

[Az.]

I am sorry my friend, I don't speak French. All what I learned from this video is that you have nice cycle paths in France

 

[inkobl]

I am sorry my friend, I don't speak French. All what I learned from this video is that you have nice cycle paths in France

I was just saying that as we can see in this video it doesn't make much sense to limit the power of the engine, when we have heights to climb and weight to load. The important thing is, I think, to have common sense and respect the speed limits. I don't see how french police men can know wt's inside your motor... the rules are so unfair. also I plan to make bicycle outside the city...

I continue my research and try to find out what are the big differences between its two engines?

TSDZ2B tongsheng 48v 500w VLCD5

and

TSDZ8 tongsheng 48V 750W VLCD5

 

[Az.]

What I was trying to say in this rare case you can have cake and eat it. I am no expert on French e-bike law... is it European standard EN15194? If so, then limit is put on maximum continuous rated power, not on maximum power. So it doesn't make any sense to me to buy 500W rated motor and run it at 500W because then it will be illegal. Buy 250W rated and run it at 500W instead and all will be good.

I have TSDZ2B - there is a lot of info about it. TSDZ8 I will get in few days - it is new and not much we know about it. On your bike I would install hub drive and make it legal, but it is me. Final decision is yours.

Why do you want mid drive on your bike and not a hub?

 

[inkobl]

What I was trying to say in this rare case you can have cake and eat it. I am no expert on French e-bike law... is it European standard EN15194? If so, then limit is put on maximum continuous rated power, not on maximum power. So it doesn't make any sense to me to buy 500W rated motor and run it at 500W because then it will be illegal. Buy 250W rated and run it at 500W instead and all will be good.

I have TSDZ2B - there is a lot of info about it. TSDZ8 I will get in few days - it is new and not much we know about it. On your bike I would install hub drive and make it legal, but it is me. Final decision is yours.

Why do you want mid drive on your bike and not a hub?

Mid drive because otherwhise I will buy a moto... I don't get it (Hub need more power than mid drive, and it's even more illegal). i'm looking for a torque sensor like on the bosch...

 

[Az.]

Mid drive because otherwhise I will buy a moto... I don't get it (Hub need more power than mid drive, and it's even more illegal). i'm looking for a torque sensor like on the bosch...

Not sure what you mean by "I will buy a moto".
Please google what continuous rated power is. Many people confuse it with real motor power. To simplify things it is just a label put on motor by manufacturer. You want it within legal limits.

Hub drive doesn't need more power and doesn't have to be illegal. It is cheaper and much more reliable. You can have torque sensor and hub drive.

Woosh hub kit with torque sensor

Woosh torque sensor kit with choice of front or rear hub motors. Convert your bike easily into an electric bike in record time.

wooshbikes.co.uk

TSDZ2B is not recommended for cargo bikes. If you definitively want mid drive it leaves you with TSDZ8 only, but you might struggle to buy a legal version of this motor. I know only one place selling legal TSDZ8, but it is in UK.

 

[inkobl]

Not sure what you mean by "I will buy a moto".
Please google what continuous rated power is. Many people confuse it with real motor power. To simplify things it is just a label put on motor by manufacturer. You want it within legal limits.

Hub drive doesn't need more power and doesn't have to be illegal. It is cheaper and much more reliable. You can have torque sensor and hub drive.

Woosh hub kit with torque sensor

Woosh torque sensor kit with choice of front or rear hub motors. Convert your bike easily into an electric bike in record time.

wooshbikes.co.uk

TSDZ2B is not recommended for cargo bikes. If you definitively want mid drive it leaves you with TSDZ8 only, but you might struggle to buy a legal version of this motor. I know only one place selling legal TSDZ8, but it is in UK.

This is a reliable store : TSDZ8 tongsheng 48V 750W electric bicycle mid motor with torque sensor throttle e-brake lever VLCD5

What will be your hub french legal motor recommandation to have the same feeling as a TSDZ8 ? Where can I found some vidéo présentation for the same Kind of motor ?

 

[Az.]

This is a reliable store : TSDZ8 tongsheng 48V 750W electric bicycle mid motor with torque sensor throttle e-brake lever VLCD5

What will be your hub légal motor recommandation to havé thé same feeling as a TSDZ8 ? Where can I fond dôme vidéo présentation for thé same Kind of bike ?

Yes, I got my TSDZ2B from PSW. Unfortunately they don't have road legal TSDZ8 at the moment, which is very disappointing, because for sure they have enough leverage to ask Tongsheng for EU legal motors. Also they don't have any stock in Europe now, so you might be hit by import duties.

Before recommending you motors I think you should open a new thread on our little forum:

Pedelecs - Electric Bike Community

The UK electric bike community

www.pedelecs.co.uk

You will get much better help there. Here it looks like it is only you and me talking. I think you should start your little project from scratch and rethink few things. For example you really want to ride 230Kg vehicle at 45km/h with rim brakes? Totally bonkers.

Live long and prosper.

 

[Chalo]

For example you really want to ride 230Kg vehicle at 45km/h with rim brakes? Totally bonkers.

Take it easy on the Kool Aid, my friend. The more energy you have to dissipate, the more it helps to have 550mm brake rotors instead of compact discs. They'll never boil their cables, never glow red hot, never warp just from braking.

Yes, if you need good braking, you need good brakes and correct setup. The strongest bicycle braking is available from rim brakes, even if you personally have never sampled that kind.

 

[inkobl]

What will be your recommendation for a hub motor to convert my older postman bike on a longtail cargo to carry up to 60Kg ? I was looking for a TSDZ8 750w / 42v but I'm also would like to consider a HUB motor as an alternative...

 

[inkobl]

Take it easy on the Kool Aid, my friend. The more energy you have to dissipate, the more it helps to have 550mm brake rotors instead of compact discs. They'll never boil their cables, never glow red hot, never warp just from braking.

Yes, if you need good braking, you need good brakes and correct setup. The strongest bicycle braking is available from rim brakes, even if you personally have never sampled that kind.

View attachment 345527

TOTALLY AGREE with your comment also I think VBrake and Drum Brake is a nice combo. Also I'm not convinced about HUB motor but I'm OK to investigate a bit and to see if it's a possible alternative with torque censor but I think it will be more expensive...

 

[UtahPete]

What will be your recommendation for a hub motor to convert my older postman bike on a longtail cargo to carry up to 60Kg ? I was looking for a TSDZ8 750w / 42v but I'm also would like to consider a HUB motor as an alternative...

This is not the thread for asking that question, I believe. This is a comparison of various mid-motor options.

 

[Az.]

Lets agree to disagree about brakes.

May I ask why you find French e-bike law unfair? I find UK law very liberal and you can do pretty much all what you want providing you meet some regulations. I thought UK and French laws about e-bikes are pretty much the same.

 

[inkobl]

Lets agree to disagree about brakes.

May I ask why you find French e-bike law unfair? I find UK law very liberal and you can do pretty much all what you want providing you meet some regulations. I thought UK and French laws about e-bikes are pretty much the same.

i think it' unfair because if you have money you can buy this

with 750W (but 250w nominal).

and if you want to buy this cheaper motor to build it cheaper, you might be illegal (I guess) TSDZ8 tongsheng 48V 750W electric bicycle mid motor with torque sensor throttle e-brake lever VLCD5

but it look like the same thing don't you agree ?

 

[Az.]

but it look like the same thing don't you agree ?

I see what you mean... but it is my point exactly. Buy a right motor with right label and keep it legal, otherwise you will expose yourself to possible huge penalties. Law is law - it is just set of boxes you need to tick to keep police happy. If you don't, then they are after you.



Edit:
I have found English version of what you posted before

Nice marketing skills. Probably yet another proprietary and expensive system. Not for me.

 

[Az.]

If you insist on mid drive, there are two other motors you might be interested to look at. Toseven DM01 and DM02. Toseven don't have a well established distribution yet and sales go mostly through manufacturer, so maybe they will be more inclined to put a legal label on motor for you just like one I posted above. Worth a shot.

 

[sysrq]

I see what you mean... but it is my point exactly. Buy a right motor with right label and keep it legal, otherwise you will expose yourself to possible huge penalties. Law is law - it is just set of boxes you need to tick to keep police happy. If you don't, then they are after you.

View attachment 345575

Edit:
I have found English version of what you posted before

Nice marketing skills. Probably yet another proprietary and expensive system. Not for me.

In some cases there is no other choice but to go for next motor which happens to be more available and more powerful due to previous complications with more legal one. Obedience to abstract laws and authorities in general population due to self-domestication syndrome according to the Goodness Paradox (Richard Wrangham) might be another factor.

 

[sysrq]

Take it easy on the Kool Aid, my friend. The more energy you have to dissipate, the more it helps to have 550mm brake rotors instead of compact discs. They'll never boil their cables, never glow red hot, never warp just from braking.

Yes, if you need good braking, you need good brakes and correct setup. The strongest bicycle braking is available from rim brakes, even if you personally have never sampled that kind.

View attachment 345527

Hard to avoid any cognitive biases, but probably as long as there aren't any prolonged descents which might blow the tire then the rear rim brake is good enough to reduce the spoke fatigue.

 

[Az.]

In some cases there is no other choice but to go for next motor which happens to be more available and more powerful

If you don't have a choice, then you don't... but in this case you do. Why buy illegal motor when you can buy the same motor which is legal? You can't even have third party insurance when you have illegal bike.

OP narrowed down choice to TSDZ2B and TSDZ8. I can provide link to legal versions of both motors, but in UK. Due to Brexit it might not be so attractive now, so I suggested to look around in France or EU for similar offer.

 

[inkobl]

Hello Endless Sphere,

Can I have feedback to know if it's sufficiently reliable to buy a TOSEVEN DM01 over a TONGSHENG TSDZ8 or a BAFANG BBS02B ?
I would like to buy a motor to start upgrading my old valdenaire
I also thinking to buy a V-brake for front brake but I'm not sure it will feat very well ?
Also I'm not sure about what could be the best transmission / gearset ( actually I've got 14-24 tooth on my sprockets) ? How many tooth chainring / sprockets does I need ?
TOSEVEN DM01 / TONGSHENG TSDZ8 / BAFANG BBS02B which one choosing ? It look likes DM01 start to be available in Europe...

Thanks