What drain rating (18650) is sufficient enough for a battery pack for a 250W hub motor?

ferez21

10 mW
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Aug 20, 2015
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Hi,

I intend to build an external battery pack for my Xiaomi M365 (250W hub motor), to connect in parallel with the existing one.
I know the one it currently uses are LG MG1 with a 10A max drain rating, but for that specific application, can I get away with 18650 cells with a drain rate of 5A-6A?

the pack will be either 10S2P or 10S3P

Thank you
 
If you already have one battery that works for your higher current needs, I think anything extra in parallel can be sufficient. You can make a 10S2P or 10S3_ with those light duty cells and extend your range.

However, if you have to use the auxilliary battery by itself, it will probably show voltage sag and cut out after the first 30% of capacity is used up. That will shorten its life.

One other thought. If your original battery will no longer hold its voltage after a fresh charge, like it quickly drops a volt, you might have some issues connecting in parallel. Your aux battery will waste some power trying to equalize with the older one. I don't know if that's good for either pack.
 
Thanks,

Does it matter if the cells in the auxilliary pack have a slightly different voltage/capacity than the original pack?
I mean, I'm going to use a BMS, it should just "block" the auxilliary pack once it's drained isn't it?
 
ferez21 said:
Does it matter if the cells in the auxilliary pack have a slightly different voltage/capacity than the original pack?
I mean, I'm going to use a BMS, it should just "block" the auxilliary pack once it's drained isn't it?

once you connect the two packs in parallel they DO have the same voltage. no matter what voltage they had before!!
if all batteries are in parallel, then every string sees the same current, so the lowest cell string defines the total capacity.
if you use one pack after the other it doesn't matter.

but it's NOT recommended to mix "strong" and "low" or "high" and "low capacity" cells.
i'll give an example:

you have one 10A capable 2000mAh cell, and one 5A capable 3000mAh cell in parallel.
this makes your two cells a 5A 2000mAh battery, as it's two cells in parallel the whole pack is 5A 4000mAh. but not 5000mAh. and not 10A.

additional info: you can't "block" the additional pack and then reconnect it again. you would need to charge it seperately, so it has the same voltage before you connect it again.

if i rethink your idea, and get it correctly: you want to put the aux pack in parallel. both packs fully charged. if they are, so fine so good. then you ride and both packs deplete. the weak one will deplete faster and pull down the strong one. or the strong one will try to "charge" the weak one.
it may work, but probably not as nice as you wish.
 
great explanation,

Just to see if i understand it correctly, with the drain rate aside, i should make the extra pack cells (and total pack wattage) identical in mAh and Wh to the original pack? Then it will use most of the juice from all packs, though max drain rate will still be determined by the lowest value in the pack?
 
I often parallel my 36V 4AH hoverboard batteries, which max out at 20A peak, so that two packs only have to supply 10A each, which is better for life. That the combo will work as an 8AH battery is an obvious conclusion because they're the same construction.

Will it be different if I parallel a batteries with much different cell types? My logic says no, but I have a 2AH 10S-2P tool battery and a 9.6AH 10S-3P battery made with GA cells, plus a pair of wattmeters. I'll put them together this week and tell you what I get. I believe the Amp-Hours will add up.
 
Wouldn't 2 cells in parallel with different capacities balance each other at their total output together? I vaguely remember something like that being said in electronics class in high school 17 years ago :lol:
 
The current going to/from the two parallel packs (during acceleration and charging) will not be split evenly between them, the proportion of what goes where is defined by the resistance of the packs.

The packs will attempt to equalize when there is any difference in voltage between them. You'll obviously lose some energy to heat while this is happening, but they'll balance out to the same voltage.

Saying that putting a 4.2v 3000mah 5A cell in parallel with a 4.2v 2000mah 10A cell results in a 5A 4000mah pack just doesn't make any sense.

If we're assuming the cells have the same resistance, they'll see the same current, and the weakest cell can handle 5A, so the pack is capable of supporting at least 10A.

The 3000mah cell has 12.6Wh stored, and the 2000mah cell has 8.3Wh stored, and since they're connected in parallel they always have the same voltage. When we run both of them down it's all gone, so the 4000mah doesn't account for another 4.2Wh.

If the cells have different internal resistances, when we're drawing power from both of them in parallel we have effectively created a current divider. If the branch connnecting the 5A-capable cell (including any lengths of wire used for the connection) has twice the resistance of the 10A-capable cell, that branch is only going to experience half of the load, so you can indeed safely pull 15A out of the pack.

Current divider calculator to play around with: http://www.learningaboutelectronics.com/Articles/Current-divider-calculator.php#answer

Because cell resistances are so low, the length of wire used can actually have a significant effect on this balance.
 
999zip999 said:
A little more information about your pack that you have now.

10S3P LG M26 cells inside my Xiaomi M365 scooter.

Btw, many times i see people building power packs with a lot of different cells, like this one for example:
33649350_1965196813550918_4565993111200727040_n.jpg

Whats the logic behind that? And how can it possibly yield good results?
 
http://www.vruzend.com/ check this place out they sell your battery cells you want or better and they have a snap together kit it could be your cup of tea.
 
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